Yeah if you didn't notice already they were just zoomed in versions of existing assets.I wouldn't mind this if there was more flavor text to actually describe what was going on, it leaves me kinda lost.
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Quite Frankly
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I hardly have any right to complain animation in general is a lot of work and is very nice but actual pov angles can feel more engaging, like you are the actual anime hero.
TheUnsaid
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It is POV?
I think what you're missing is that it's not like the other POV shots in the game. The girls are just really close to the protagonist.
Quite Frankly
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POV is lazy acronym for "point of view" which may require another lazy explanation of what it really is supposed to mean in terms of porn, which is "1st person view", which IS really what Parade Buster was about. I wouldn't describe the animation shots in this particular game as POV. They are still great animations, just not POV.
TheUnsaid
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Lol, it's POV XD
Those specific scenes that are the point of contention are meant to be thought of as scene from the protagonist's viewpoint.
They're super zoomed in because the girls are super close to his body.
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I think their issue with the way Yumesame handled these POV shots vs Smashboy and Parade Buster was the fact that they were just reused sprites, zoomed in.
Parade Buster had some enemies use breast smother and facesitting animations with their own unique CG-- and in Smashboy, almost every enemy had them as well. This resulted in a better experience because it didn't feel like a lazy copout.
Of course, I acknowledge the fact that drawing these specific POV shots is extra effort and he just wanted the game finished. I can appreciate what Excessm was going for, but the end result feels incredibly underwhelming when compared with the previous implementation.
gemstoner75
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Yes, we're smart enough to realize it's supposed to be POV.
But you're too thick to realize that people criticise it because it's lazily and badly done compared to his previous games, because they were detailed, new drawings and not just pixelated zoom-ins of already existing sprites.
TheUnsaid
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I get your point. A similar concern was raised in the WIP thread, about reused+resized textures.
You're probably exaggerating a bit to show your point, but I wouldn't call excessM lazy for that much. They've changed engines a few times, and are probably looking for their sweet spot to provide a satisfying quality/quantity ratio - hopefully one we'll also agree it is satisfying.
Animations take work, more than standing pictures. I can think of a few devs undeniably being lazy that way. But ExcessM? Nah. I'd rather believe they hastened the process to cram in 4-5 more girls with the new procedure (more than otherwise, with the additional assets that would imply). If I'm right, I'd also rather take the extra girls.
I might be wrong. Their next work, using Unity, will be the best way to know for sure. After all, lazy Unity works are plentiful. I still have good hopes they'll come in the least lazy Unity devs.
TheUnsaid
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Already seeing issues with scaling on Hagokoro.
You must be registered to see the links
Obviously the link will only work if you follow ExcessM on Ci-En.
Also, this is the Ashigaru enemy.
Her belt and necklace are the same assets except scaled differently.
I don't think ExcessM thinks much about the negative artifacts of computer generated scaling systems.
As long as there's some form of texture filtering unlike WolFRPG that does everything nearest neighbor like we're in 1995, it shouldn't look horrendous though.
The image above at least looks better than this one.
I mean... those shields were clearly not drawn at that resolution, and the bottom belt looks aweful.
Scaling artifacts were really prominent in his bunny girl casino minigame as well, so it's probably something that will stay until he gets enough complaints to take it seriously.
Personally, I don't mind the scaling issue if it helps in speeding up asset production. ExcessM's fetish is mainly reverse gangbang. For that fetish to work, you need tons of assets.
OneOfUs
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Another 'lazy' add-on is that the neck things look added on just to... hide the neck, since he might not have felt like drawing them. Head proportions can be wonky sometimes, and having no neck can help alleviate that in a drawing since you can't get a proper scale of how big the head-to-shoulders is actually suppose to be to look human.
Actually, there are no necks in that picture at all, but 4 people. hm.
TheUnsaid
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Bit of a stretch.
He doesn't have issues with drawing necks.
And Parade Buster also has tons of girls with their neck showing. The main princess heroine specifically.
The necks also show pretty clearly in the cowgirl animation previews.
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Was talking about his new game and him getting lazier drawing wise, not old stuff, but fair enough.
TheUnsaid
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I mean... the image I showed is from his still in-development game. It's so new it's not even out yet
I am fascinated by how much people can obsess over small and insignificant shit in a game that, at its core, it still supposed to be a porn game. People bitching about pov not getting entirely new models and animations, useless decoration assets being changed and reused on a character model, necks not meeting the standards for porn games I didn't even know existed. As someone who has followed this developer since the very first game I can only laugh at such nonsense. Try taking a gander at the first two games and see how much everything has improved since then, compare the characters from then to now in both look and animation quality, and the story, the scale of the game and the variety of content, not to mention the game length. Some of you are taking cherrypicking to a whole new level here. I am glad I can just mostly enjoy these things for what they are and keep my complaining limited to the bigger things instead of scanning for tiny details that have slightly less polish compared to a similar game that was released years ago in a different engine.
Svetson
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It feels like kind of just a sign that ExcessM as a niche fandom has progressed to the point now where some people feel a certain sense of entitlement with the content to talk as if there's some sort of like ownership license to it among certain segments of a fandom, particularly with regard to the direction future content should take (the free for all speculative phase between content development periods where suddenly people become dead set and fixated on the idea that x will happen or y won't but treat it like it's a given and get very worked up at times) and probably to take things the creator decides on a little oddly personally as well due to the built up sense of familiarity they feel they've gained with them and their content. It's something that happens in all fandoms in the post social media age. Especially those centered around Asian region gaming/anime stuff in particular, and is kind of a sign both that that thing (in this case ExcessM) has made a name for itself in whatever niche it inhabits and that it's long passed any sort of honeymoon period. They eventually all just kind of devolve into people taking creative decisions weirdly personally and nitpicky complaining as the conversation, in again what is effectively a niche fandom, bogs down with the same people going back and forth with each other in whatever echo chamber forum is the venue. It just kind of is what it is and I've seen a lot worse sadly.
I find it weird to, but I'm more than used to that sort of thing (even though I still find it exhausting sometimes) where niche fandoms just appear to sort of sour and become some level of toxic in tone over time. I think it's also partially borne out of frustration of being both familiar with the content, but unable to directly communicate with a lot of the actual creators and owners of various content as well due to language barriers and instead being kind of forced to speculate and attach meaning and intent to their activities based on what scant material they provide and because of the general tone of the internet and social media nowadays this almost invariably leads to a sort of nervous bordering sometimes on paranoid negativity. Sometimes though it all evolves differently in the anime/game circles where a creator or particular type of content attains a certain cult like status where overnight they/it can do absolutely no wrong ever and it's the opposite effect where any action or demonstration they take gets attributed as a stroke of brilliance by default and any sort of criticism or complaining about it gets automatically labelled as "hate", but this is a far far rarer albeit oftentimes no less toxic case (since again any sort of criticism no matter how minor or fair gets a person labelled as a "hater" and ostracized from, insulted by, and ultimately ignored by the fan group) due to again what I see as the modern internet and social media's tendency toward negativity. It takes a very special particularly strong combination of factors for that outcome to happen instead of what I call the negativity spiral.
In summary, take it from someone who has been following niche asian pop culture stuff like anime, video games etc. for well over 25 years at this point going back to the very early 90's, it was a LOT more mellow, easygoing and just in general possible to have a good faith conversations about any of it (agree or disagree about whatever) even on the early internet just about up until before the widespread and integrated social media environment of the 2010's introduced a lot of the deeply personal beef and speculative type conversations that tend to make up the bulk of discussion nowadays and where things can get VERY intense, VERY extreme in opinion (X thing is all good or all bad), and taken personally VERY quickly.
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gemstoner75
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You forgot there something, mate:
Seriously, what's with people not being able to to differentiate between criticising something and unhappily bitching about it? Y'know, you can like stuff and still be critical about it. Not acknowledging that something has flaws is just white knight'ish fanboyism.
I'll just go out on a limp here and say that almost everybody agrees that excessm is one of the best h-content creators out there not only in his niche he caters to, but also making an actual game with gameplay. So nobody noting something negative here doesn't mean they don't enjoy his content, it just means they are merely disappointed by him. But nothing's a dealbreaker. But I think it's fair to express a bit of iffiness when a promised translation isn't delivered or one game suddenly downgrades the unique POV arts to zoom-ins on existing art - that's after all how an author learns what his audience likes.
Svetson
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My take on this is that it really depends if people just make their critique and leave it at that or instead turn it into one of those weirdly personal crusades replete with the back and forth droning and complaining that just goes on and on that ends up being the case a lot of the time and eventually leads to the label of toxic fandom applying to it all. ExcessM feels light years away from the later scenario particularly due to how niche it is, but being one of the more well known ones around these parts I can totally see it getting their depending on circumstances based on patterns I've seen develop before. I mean all the pieces are in place for it already the way the conversations been going lately. I check back here every couple months for news on what the group is up to and can't help but wonder myself if it's headed slowly but surely down that path.
All in all it's just what it is and more than one specific case or stake I'll offer that in my time it's become sort of exhausting to see the same patterns play out over and over again in all the sub-fandom's you've witnessed and that as a result of people taking things so personally and having such a narrow field of vision in not being able to recognize the patterns and what you're getting at (it always gets mistaken as a personal attack or stake rather than lamenting a particular pattern of conversation and tone in and of itself that's directed at nobody in particular so much as about the pattern of conversation) I try not to share how I feel about things too much and just sort of let things go. In fact I even plan on letting this tangent of conversation go right after this because I just don't really expect people to get what it is I'm specifically referring to and instead take it personally, like I'm specifically referring only to this thread and to take it as some sort of direct personal attack on them. Did I mention people tend to take a lot of things REALLY personally and like something is directed specifically at them when it isn't in the post social media internet cause I don't think it can be understated lol?
That's sort of another thing I miss about the pre-social media days of the internet. The confidence that if you post something on the internet the person that reads it would 99% percent of the time understand what was being implied, NOT by default take it weirdly personally or as some sort of attack on them and respond in kind and in generally good faith. I'd take anything to have that version of the internet and niche fandoms back some days lol.
Since I agree with @Triplebrc but he's rude, I'll simplify and reword what he said:
Do we trust ExcessM? Yes.
Will we rush on his new game like housewifes on toilet paper in early 2020? Yes.
Link to excessM new game: https://ulmf.org/threads/excessm-ruhagokoro-mawaru-hagokoro.13999/
Link to off-topic idle talk section: https://ulmf.org/forums/everything-else.20/ or https://ulmf.org/forums/shitposting/
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Did you just call me an elitist for uttering my bewilderment over some of the wannabe experts on drawings, animations and game design incessently obsessing and nagging over tiny details that ultimately have next to no impact on the game? You call ME and elitist, as if I am the one acting like I am so deep into the developers brain and familiar enough with all his works and the technical information surrounding it to identify any decline in quality no matter how minor and then call him lazy for it? Mate, honestly, pick up a dictionary and familiarize yourself with the words you are using so casually, because I am the exact opposite of an elitist in this situation here. I am the casual porn game player who wonders why people are talking about neck details instead of tits, necklace assets instead of underwear, pov detail comparisons instead of gameplay, story or real 18+ content comparisons for the fetish thats going on here.
And he just called me a fanboy too... Man, do you have any actual thoughts or are you just throwing some words around that you have seen on the internet somewhere? Any look through this thread here would have shown you that I was among the more vocal critics of the broken translation promise. I just recently mocked the fact that the new game will likely be out before the promised translation for this game here will arrive, someone even chastised me for still complaining about the missing translation. This is a point that is worth complaining about, as are a few others I have seen here, and some slightly suspicious things that seem to be going on with the new game and could have an actual impact on the enjoyment, a positive or a negative one, so some speculation about that is also understandable. But sure, call people fanboys the moment they wanna know whats wrong with people bitching about the supposed decline of the developer because he isn't giving it his A game with POV anymore, or reusing a few decorative assets, that makes people want to take you seriously
What I consider to be rude is calling this dev lazy giving he produces these games much faster than he has any right to if we compare the games to similar ones, all over someone dissecting his games. I have called the dev stingy before because he seems unwilling to get a real translator, which I think is a claim that can be made due to it being an actual point worth adressing, and I mean the whole translation debacle kinda speaks for itself at this point. My comment was not even meant to be rude btw, I can demonstrate how I sound if I wanna be rude, it was more like an amused "are you guys actually fapping to porn games or enjoying them or are you just sitting on your ass and make notes over tiny details the average person has way too busy of a life to ever discover, and then complain about it online". Genuine question, why do this kind of needless stuff with a niche 18+ porn game of all the games on the market, just seems weird to me.