I am the one speaking against illegally sharing the beta on the devs own thread. Who are you to defend those who share the beta here, especially when you proclaim to be interested in the success of this project?
How is a offbeatr/patreon project even remotely comparable to a bank? I am not speaking of legally bound or professional projects, I am speaking about two laymen wanting to to work on a passion project. If you lend your neighbour money so he can kickstart his own basement brewery in exchange for the vague promise that you will get bottles for free each year, then no, you have noone but yourself to blame if your neighbour fucks up and the money is gone.
You took what I said out of context and chose a completely inappropriate comparison to strengthen your argument, which proved to be easily dismantled. Keep an eye out for that, there will be more examples of this as I claw my way through your response.
I am not blindly defending anyone. If you'd have a look at their blog, you'd find a comment made as late as january 15th of one of the devs stating that they are currently working on a new release and that they are holding back blog posts because of it, to release a new beta and blog post at the same time.
I have never said that you shouldn't be sceptical. Hell, if you want to confront the devs in a respectable manner and urge them to at least be more open when consistently taking way longer than even they themselves expected, then I'm all for it! But I wont stand idly by when anons start picking on the devs or even sharing their beta maliciously when they are still very much active. Again, sharing the beta here of all places, is not criticism, let alone just criticism. Portraying it as such is just stupid and invalidates any other valid point you may have. And I know for a fact that unjust criticism and maliciousness is in no way helping the developers. Anyone capable of logic thinking should be able to come to the same conclusion.
You didn't even bother to look up the context my comments were made and you just try to generalize my argument when it was never meant to apply to everyone, only to give your argument more validity.
Good for you, you obviously know what you want and how much you are willing to give up to get it. I just wonder why you felt the need then to defend someone illegally sharing the beta then.
Well, you'd have to have knowledge of how development works to answer this question, but you're in luck, I will help you out. A visual novel requires virtually no coding work to be done, all you neeed to do is to use existing frameworks and add your pictures to it. Outside of having to draw the pictures and coming up with text, the work required to complete a cisual novel takes less than an hour. Same goes for RPGmaker crapware, there is a reason why they are all tagged RPGmaker, because they use the RPGmaker framework, which again, requires almost no coding. You can spent over 90% of your time and manpower creating art assets.
MoGi doesn't work like that. The devs write their own framework and if you followed them at all over the last 2 years, you would have know that the framework is what is holding the game back, not the art department. In fact, Veins, who is the main artist, is almost done with all the art assets, while Titan, the main programmer, is still hammering out the first of what I vaguely remeber to be 4 main routes the game will take. So why didn't they use a framework as well? Fair question. A question that could've been asked at the beginning of the project, a question that now is all but irrelevant, as you can't switch frameworks
mid-project without dumping all the progress you've made so far. This "flaw", of not only having to create art assets, but also having to implement the framework that turns those assets into a functioning game, is what is slowing down the progress of this game. A flaw that should've been obvious since the beginning of the project, so getting all salty about it now is way too late. Just leave if you can't wait.
And even if they are wasting time, even if they are incompetent, even if they are the most incompetent devs on the entire planet, bitching about them and sharing their beta here wont make them work faster, it wont help make this game become reality, it wont help them becoming less incompetent, and it sure as hell wont encourage them to try harder. So if you are only here to shit on this game and its devs, fuck off already, you are doing noone a favor.
If you know all that, why are you still here flinging shit? You know it's not helping, why do you continue to do so?
Again, you are putting what I said into a context I never said them in. My original comment was against someone who defended sharing the beta in this thread, you jumped in to defend him from my criticism. If you feel unjustly attacked when you were only trying to voice respectful criticism, then you should pay more attention to who you are defending.
No, the developers have no obligations whatsoever to listen to the bullshit that is being flung around here. For all I know, the backers gave their money in exchange for the promise of the devs trying to finish their game. They have tried, and they are still trying. If they pack up and leave, because you have been shitting on them for not trying hard enough, then you are the one at faul for the failure of the project.
You are not an investor, you are not a shareholder. They owe you nothing but a promise to try. They are not professionals, they have no credibility to worry about. Of course they do worry about their credibility, but there is no obligation on their part, other than having to try.
You are free to voice your opinon, but don't expect the devs having to accept it, don't expect them to be your punching bag just because things are not working out the way you hoped they would.
Are you getting that desperate that you feel the need to make up bullshit out of thin air in order to make this post even more daunting to reply to?
An expert in one thing is not automatically an expert at everything, so yes, even the most gifted artist will be a layman at pretty much everything except creating art. The difference is that those "laymen" working at AAA studios have to be really good at what they are expected to do.
Titan and Veins are not. Titan is not required to be a gifted coder, to have 10 years of experience in game engine development, the only thing he had was the desire to create a h-game. And he asked for money in order to create it. You cannot blame anyone but yourself if you give him your money and regret it later, or if you are just pissed at how slow everything seems to be progressing. He has no obligation towards you.
Secondly, investments are a risk, but a risk with the expectation that I am getting something of substance in return. This is a basic concept that a child grasps, so kindly explain why it is so difficult for you to comprehend. Oh, and thirdly, this game isn't exactly a fucking masterpiece of programming. I've played flash games, Unity games, etc that share several qualities with this game. I made a point about re-inventing the wheel in other dev's thread wherein all these devs who try to build a new engine (as the MoGi guys tried) and only manage doing something slightly different to what already exists are basically wasting time. If the wheel already exists, you don't ignore it because your head is too far up your own ass. You take that wheel, paint it another shade or, better yet, tweak it to be a better wheel. Hell, this one autistic anon talking about a children's card game sums it up perfectly:
You are getting something in return. You get the promise of the devs trying their best to create this game. As long as they did anything really, they have already fulfilled that promise. Just look at funded but failed kickstart projects to see what exactly is owed to you.
And how exactly is stating the obvious, that this game is not the best ever made, helping you exactly with your argument? Does it show that the devs are no prefessionals? Well, no shit, I said as much about three times by now.
You show again that you completely understood the risks this project poses even before giving me such a shitshow. So why are you so ignorant to throw shit? You should know that it serves no purpose. It will not boost the morale, it wont make the devs work faster, so what is the point of your rant exactly? You get tangled up in your own cognitive dissonance.
And we finally arive at the end. Remember what I said at the beginning, that you are using completely inappropriate comparisons? Well, you did it again. EA didn't fuck up. EA played a risk, and it backfired. EA could've released the best StarWars ever made, but they didn't care about the best game ever made, they care about money. If anyone fucked up at EA, it were the market analysts and CEOs. Nothing went wrong on the developer level. Players wanted EA to apologize, not because apologizing would fix BF2, but because they wanted EA to change their behavior. Asking for an apology from Titan and Veins is completely pointless however, it wont make them work faster than they already are, and just like with EA, if they are really just leeching your money, an apology wont change anything. EA is still leeching and so would these devs. The one difference is that Titan and Veins are in fact still working on this game, and as such my earlier point applies, making them apologize wont change a thing.
And I can just repeat myself, if you want to voice just criticism, do it, I'm all for it. I too would love the devs to write blog posts more consistently and more often, but I refuse to do it in a rude manner or to support people sharing their beta here.
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