Google and China

[aika]

I think this is big enough news that it deserves its own thread.

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tl;dr - "due to some attacks coming from china on the gmail accounts of human rights activists in China, we're no longer happy with censoring for them. So we're telling the Chinese government that either we won't censor their internet any more, or there will be no more google.cn"

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So yeah, discuss what you think of the state of the public access to the internet in China and how monumental this could be - as

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said,

Google represents access to the internet. So by proxy, it represents Everything. When China had a full buffet of Google, and Yahoo and MSN and Baidu, it could maintain the illusion that people really had access to Everything.

If Google takes itself off the table, it will become clear that they don't, and that goes to the heart of the social contract between the Chinese government and its people.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

I found

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more interesting, but that's beside the point.

To what I think will happen? Nothing really, most people there will continue to use proxies >:

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: Google and China

If Google really were to shut down it's Chinese branch, that really would be a blow to China. Sure, there are other search engines, but Google is a household name. It would be like Lego or Electronic Arts not allowing their products to be sold in a specific area; sure, there are alternatives, but big names like that are sure to influence others to do something similar.

 

[aika]

Re: Google and China

most people there will continue to use proxies >:

I think you overestimate the number of people that use proxies in China.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Re: Google and China

Why do I get the feeling that it's not as big of a deal as they make it out to be? It seems to me it's just gonna cause a global shitstorm for a couple weeks, then die down, and then Yahoo will have a new contributor.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

I think you overestimate the number of people that use proxies in China.

and I think you're underestimating, what's your source?

 

[aika]

Re: Google and China

Abosultely none, I just can't believe the standard Chinese internet user breaks China's internet laws and bypasses filters and censors with a proxy. If over 50% of people did, the government would know and would do something about it.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

The chinese government does do things about proxies, certain proxy domains are now blocked, and generally, people have to use various addons and methods to ensure that they get a good connection to get outside.

 

[dmronny]

Re: Google and China

Yeah what Loli said about their use of proxies.

As Dark said it'll cause a global shitstorm where all of China's human rights abuses are brought up again. Then it all stops and China goes right back to the same old same old.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

Yeah what Loli said about their use of proxies.

As Dark said it'll cause a global shitstorm where all of China's human rights abuses are brought up again. Then it all stops and China goes right back to the same old same old.

I wasn't aware that google was a human right

 

[SirOni]

Re: Google and China

I found

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more interesting, but that's beside the point.

To what I think will happen? Nothing really, most people there will continue to use proxies >:

Dear fucking christ, the furries have gone beyond the realms of fantasy. Ma', git me mah huntin' gun.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: Google and China

I found

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more interesting, but that's beside the point.

To what I think will happen? Nothing really, most people there will continue to use proxies >:

What I really love about this is what it shows about different cultures.

Someplace with a lot of eggheads like Europe or America (more often than not Europe), we study the shit out of any 'mutation', no matter how freaky.
The village in Zimbabwe mentioned in the story freaked the fuck out, declared it the result of a human fucking a goat with the only 'proof' being the head's features, killed it, and burned the body.

 

[aika]

Re: Google and China

I wasn't aware that google was a human right

Well, freedom of information is, I guess?

The CCP wants to create the illusion that they are not hiding anything from their people, they are simply protecting them.

Them removing google because they refuse to censor their searches will be a big blow to China - everyone uses google.cn in China like everyone uses google.com in America. In fact, Google originally agreeing to censor Chinese searches and then pull out will probably have a bigger effect than them having simply refused years ago.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

Actually, currently one of the most popular search engines in china is currently Baidu. Also, at the moment, the freedom of information thing is a little iffy because there isn't anything in China law which guarantees that, it's only in Hong Kong (which currently observes several different laws, including a mixture of china law and UK law) where that is given.

Of course, there's also the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which I do believe China has signed onto, (on the other hand though, there are many countries that have signed onto it that don't observe it -3-)

 

[Alias]

Re: Google and China

I'm with aika on this one. I think you're underestimating how many people use the internet and overestimating the percentage of that number that even knows what a proxy is. Just because it's China doesn't mean they don't have people that are technologically inept, just like everywhere else.

Do you have personal experience or something?

Also, power to fucking google, by the way, taking the high moral ground even though China is probably a HUGE chunk of their income.

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

I'm with aika on this one. I think you're underestimating how many people use the internet and overestimating the percentage of that number that even knows what a proxy is. Just because it's China doesn't mean they don't have people that are technologically inept, just like everywhere else.

Do you have personal experience or something?

Also, power to fucking google, by the way, taking the high moral ground even though China is probably a HUGE chunk of their income.

Statistically, it's hard to prove how many people are using proxies in China because, y'know, the point of a proxy is that it's harder to track where the user came from. Personal experience and stories people post online do tell some stories.

Not the best crosscut (as once again, if a user is using a proxy, they would possibly be shown as originating from a different country, plus statistics can be inaccurate):

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1.5% of the users, about 270k is still from China, despite the fact that GFW has blocked this site. For the most part, for people in China who WANT to bypass the GFW, it's completely possible for them.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: Google and China

For the most part, for people in China who WANT to bypass the GFW, it's completely possible for them.

OK... Imagine you're a guy and you've just gotten a computer. Do you know how to set up a proxy?

I ask because I'm a western kid with quite a bit of experience in computers, and I was still, with the help of everything i could find on the internet not able to set up an untraceable proxy connection through our school let alone when i tried to do the same on the state network.

The average computer-user in the west doesn't know how to set up a proxy, sooooooo.... anyways, you get what I mean...
Damn I'm tired right now.

Was anything of the above coherent?

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

Once again it's people who care enough to get pass the GFW, one person I do talk to mentions that it's generally only the geekiest of the geeks who will do this, as generally they're the people who care enough about accessing the sites that are blocked.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: Google and China

Well, there are a few steps nececcary for them to do it I guess.

1. You have to realise that the site is being blocked by the filter.
2. You have to make a concious effort to try accsessing it be several means.
3. You need a certain level of computer skill.

Now I think a lot of people fall off the wagon on nr 3 there, just think of how many people think it's hard to configure a wireless network, run a virus scan, print a document and so on...

 

[Loli Defense Force]

Re: Google and China

Well, there are a few steps nececcary for them to do it I guess.

1. You have to realise that the site is being blocked by the filter.
2. You have to make a concious effort to try accsessing it be several means.
3. You need a certain level of computer skill.

Now I think a lot of people fall off the wagon on nr 3 there, just think of how many people think it's hard to configure a wireless network, run a virus scan, print a document and so on...

1.

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List goes on.

2.
I have no idea what you're saying

3.
That's questionable, as there are many sites, both in chinese and english, some built for travelers, some built for netizens there that want to get out. Additionally, unlike most proxy users who simply want to proxy to visit a site occasionally, some people there are more than willing to drop some money in order to use pay for use software, which skips, to an extent, some of the more annoying parts of setting up the proxy.