Patreon SIM Abandoned [ HartistaPipebomb] Breeding Season

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Re: Breeding Season

Well, it takes a lot more than an artist, an animator, and a programmer to make a healthy game development team, especially if each individual has shortcomings and neither have the sense of direction and project management required. The more people on the team, the more complicated it gets, and the harder it is to hold it all together.

Any project at any level can be complicated. I'm not gonna write a wall of text, but things such as the game engine, purchasing assets, contacting license owners, etc aren't things one just wakes up and does willy-nilly. The projects I've watched (MoGi Origins, The Last Demonhunter/Order of Light, Mitsuko X to name a few) have either been headed by amateurs in the field of game development and thus people who don't know what they're doing, or people who don't have a clear-cut plan or concept to work off of. Credit where it is due, developers/development teams like HentaiWriter, YummiTiger, and a few others who know what they're doing and only manage some level of mistakes/not accounting for things are the ones that should be focused on.

 

[omega780]

Re: Breeding Season

Its really sad to see this die, especially after watching it for 3 whole years. I've invested a lot of time in checking the blog multiple times a week when the game was only developed by 1 person, to daily in the last year or so. Hopefully other game developers learn from this and make better contracts with partners/employees.

 

[Ericridge]

Re: Breeding Season

Several years ago, I thought this game would fail.

As time went on, I thought I might be wrong.

Today it has failed.

I didn't back this game but was kinda interested.

My condolences to all who lost money on this affair.

Such is the nature of funding projects that might succeed or fail.

I wish ye all the best in future. Except for the backstabber. :3

 

[Clades]

Re: Breeding Season

But yeah I just get the feeling that people expect folks to work hours and hours on end...slaving away at trying or successfully completing projects and deserve to be living out on the streets cause "HEY ITS JUST PORN MAN". I find it infurating how common this mentality is in the adult scene. Not saying quailty isn't an issue that needs to be worked on either. Just...let's not forget that people need to eat.

I think what people expect is some level and consistency, and fewer exceptions to that consistency, especially when money is involved.

I can't even count the number of dev updates (across multiple projects) that are some form of "Sorry, I haven't put together an update in a month, I got the sniffles one day and then [insert newly released game] came out so I have been super duper busy lately." At least I've noticed a drop off in the "My hard drive crashed and I didn't back up all my work, so that's why no one can be angry about why no progress has been or will be made in the near future" style posts.

You would think developing adult games is literally infectious due the number of diseases people seem to have that affects their work.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

You would think developing adult games is literally infectious due the number of diseases people seem to have that affects their work.

A lot of people who are programmers or developers of any sort (or artists or writers etc.) are generally on their computer for extended periods of time.

This is a possible chicken/egg effect;

- A lot of people who spend time on computers for long periods of time develop diseases, sickness, weakness, infections, etc. due to lack of exercise, lack of fresh air, lack of sunlight, lack of nutrition (forgetting to eat or eating terribly)

- A lot of people who get into programming/writing/art jobs are already sick with some sort of permanent illness or chronic illness that comes and goes, so they ended up in a career that would allow them to work from home in so they can manage their sickness, or because they're not even physically capable of holding down an office job or something else of that sort.

This is why you see so many people, not only in adult games, but just in games in general, have this kind of stuff happen. The reason it seems more pronounced in adult games is because adult games are an indie scene right now in the west, and so with a small community and developers wanting to be transparent/open (and with extremely small teams or one-person operations), you hear about these stories of sickness.

But with big businesses, with hundreds of people, you rarely hear this because a few people being out sick isn't really anything newsworthy, but it does happen often. There are a lot of larger game companies that are starting to have health programs, like actual masseuses on-site, and many other smaller companies are mandating that you get up from your chair every two hours for 15 minutes to exercise, but when you work at home, remembering to take care of yourself (especially if you're a workaholic) is sometimes forgotten.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Re: Breeding Season

A lot of people who are programmers or developers of any sort (or artists or writers etc.) are generally on their computer for extended periods of time.

This is a possible chicken/egg effect;

- A lot of people who spend time on computers for long periods of time develop diseases, sickness, weakness, infections, etc. due to lack of exercise, lack of fresh air, lack of sunlight, lack of nutrition (forgetting to eat or eating terribly)

- A lot of people who get into programming/writing/art jobs are already sick with some sort of permanent illness or chronic illness that comes and goes, so they ended up in a career that would allow them to work from home in so they can manage their sickness, or because they're not even physically capable of holding down an office job or something else of that sort.

This is why you see so many people, not only in adult games, but just in games in general, have this kind of stuff happen. The reason it seems more pronounced in adult games is because adult games are an indie scene right now in the west, and so with a small community and developers wanting to be transparent/open (and with extremely small teams or one-person operations), you hear about these stories of sickness.

But with big businesses, with hundreds of people, you rarely hear this because a few people being out sick isn't really anything newsworthy, but it does happen often. There are a lot of larger game companies that are starting to have health programs, like actual masseuses on-site, and many other smaller companies are mandating that you get up from your chair every two hours for 15 minutes to exercise, but when you work at home, remembering to take care of yourself (especially if you're a workaholic) is sometimes forgotten.

I'm curious where you and everyone else gets their information on AAA developers, writers, etc. I want to see flow charts, polls, etc because I've met and interacted with persons from a variety of industries and have worked within a few as well. Myself, I'm an aspiring writer and have encountered other writers who are neither bed-ridden or riddled with illness, etc. Guys like Stephen King, John Grisham, Patrick Rothfuss aren't on their computers for an extended period of time. They get out and are active quite a bit. Hell, a cursory glance at Patrick's twitter will tell you the guy travels quite a bit.

Pretty sure tons of people in AAA gaming are just as active, if not moreso because HR and labor laws prevent staff from blowing their own brains out after working non-stop on a game. Yeah, non-media office environments have an inherently negative connotation attached to them, but what you hear about in the movies and such are blown hugely out of proportion. HR departments, labor boards, etc come down hard if too many employees are suffering in some way. Wanna know one of the factors behind big business sending work to third-world countries? That's one.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

I'm curious where you and everyone else gets their information on AAA developers, writers, etc.

I mainly get them from personal experience and the experiences of people I've worked with, i.e. I've worked in/with/on AAA companies, and almost everyone I work with has done the same

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Re: Breeding Season

I mainly get them from personal experience and the experiences of people I've worked with, i.e. I've worked in/with/on AAA companies, and almost everyone I work with has done the same

The reaction image of Buster Baxter from Arthur comes to mind.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

The reaction image of Buster Baxter from Arthur comes to mind.

Aren't there like 20 different reaction images of him?

 

[Clades]

Re: Breeding Season

This is why you see so many people, not only in adult games, but just in games in general, have this kind of stuff happen.

At the risk of sounding argumentative I'm just going to be honest. My point was that most adult projects have lazy/incompetent developers. The reason delays are common and with usually the same reasons is that those are the go-to excuses people come up with they have to have to explain why they haven't gotten any work done.

It wasn't a big deal when most adult games were being built in people's free time. But now with services like Patreon becoming popular, those same people are now taking real money for they work they are supposed to be doing. At that point I stop feeling as much sympathy for all these supposed hardships that developers go through constantly.

 

[Pykrete Blue]

Re: Breeding Season

Aren't there like 20 different reaction images of him?

I believe he's calling you a liar, on the internet. Just in a very roundabout and wishy washy, indirect way.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Breeding Season

At the risk of sounding argumentative I'm just going to be honest. My point was that most adult projects have lazy/incompetent developers. The reason delays are common and with usually the same reasons is that those are the go-to excuses people come up with they have to have to explain why they haven't gotten any work done.

Overgeneralize much? "Most projects have lazy/incompetent developers." Is that right, can you please point out the evidence you have that most of us are lazy and incompetent. You could say, most of the developers you've seen are lazy/incompetent, and then it'd still be rude to any developers reading the comment, but at least it would be based on your view.

I'll counter by saying that most of the people commenting that I see are woefully ignorant to the amount of work that goes into creating a game. I can't count the number of times I've seen people talk about RPG Maker and say you can easily churn out a good game because everything is done for you. That is a huge over-simplification, because if you want to change and improve RPG Maker, it requires spending a good amount of time learning the system and programming skills to change the Ruby code.

So, when you see things taking a long time, it may be partially due to just how damn much work goes into these games, not because the developer is sitting on his/her ass doing nothing and counting your money. I guess that is just up to you to decide whether you think he is lazy or things are just taking a long time. Also, in the real world, people get sick too. Yes, they may work through it, but you know what, they shouldn't. If you go to work sick, you actually are a detriment to productivity since you spread the sickness and it lasts longer, making your work less productive over the course of a few days.

 

[azurezero]

Re: Breeding Season

Overgeneralize much? "Most projects have lazy/incompetent developers." Is that right, can you please point out the evidence you have that most of us are lazy and incompetent. You could say, most of the developers you've seen are lazy/incompetent, and then it'd still be rude to any developers reading the comment, but at least it would be based on your view.

I'll counter by saying that most of the people commenting that I see are woefully ignorant to the amount of work that goes into creating a game. I can't count the number of times I've seen people talk about RPG Maker and say you can easily churn out a good game because everything is done for you. That is a huge over-simplification, because if you want to change and improve RPG Maker, it requires spending a good amount of time learning the system and programming skills to change the Ruby code.

So, when you see things taking a long time, it may be partially due to just how damn much work goes into these games, not because the developer is sitting on his/her ass doing nothing and counting your money. I guess that is just up to you to decide whether you think he is lazy or things are just taking a long time. Also, in the real world, people get sick too. Yes, they may work through it, but you know what, they shouldn't. If you go to work sick, you actually are a detriment to productivity since you spread the sickness and it lasts longer, making your work less productive over the course of a few days.

I can't speak for the others, but im definitely lazy... but I like making games so much because it's something i find i actually put effort into

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Breeding Season

I believe he's calling you a liar, on the internet. Just in a very roundabout and wishy washy, indirect way.

I mean, they can believe I'm a liar or not, but I'm just saying what the facts are, lol.

As for the game itself, anyone notice that it's still up on the new Nutaku/Kimochi hybrid? Hopefully they don't put Cloud Meadow up there, because the last thing they need is to be associated with people who are terrible at running a business.

 

[Clades]

Re: Breeding Season

Overgeneralize much? "Most projects have lazy/incompetent developers." Is that right, can you please point out the evidence you have that most of us are lazy and incompetent.

Well, the slash was meant to mean "lazy or incompetent", as in most developers are one or the other. And I guess "incompetent" may have been the wrong word choice. Amateurish or "poor developers" may have been better. And I don't mean those terms in an insulting way, but a general appraisal of the level of skill and competency I see people bring to these development efforts. I mentioned a common problem in my previous post of people claiming to have lost work due to hardware failures (usually hard drives). I would hesitate to call anyone who doesn't know to use source control (or some other backup mechanism) as a "competent" developer.

I don't really want to point out actual examples because my goal isn't to shame specific people.

Plus, the main context I'm speaking about here is the group of people who are taking other people's money for their work. I don't really care if someone receiving no money takes a year off of a project to do other things. It does bug me when someone who is taking donations or Patreon money throws around lazy excuses to justify not doing they work they said they would do.

 

[jk103]

Re: Breeding Season

Overgeneralize much? "Most projects have lazy/incompetent developers." Is that right, can you please point out the evidence you have that most of us are lazy and incompetent. You could say, most of the developers you've seen are lazy/incompetent, and then it'd still be rude to any developers reading the comment, but at least it would be based on your view.

I'll counter by saying that most of the people commenting that I see are woefully ignorant to the amount of work that goes into creating a game. I can't count the number of times I've seen people talk about RPG Maker and say you can easily churn out a good game because everything is done for you. That is a huge over-simplification, because if you want to change and improve RPG Maker, it requires spending a good amount of time learning the system and programming skills to change the Ruby code.

So, when you see things taking a long time, it may be partially due to just how damn much work goes into these games, not because the developer is sitting on his/her ass doing nothing and counting your money. I guess that is just up to you to decide whether you think he is lazy or things are just taking a long time. Also, in the real world, people get sick too. Yes, they may work through it, but you know what, they shouldn't. If you go to work sick, you actually are a detriment to productivity since you spread the sickness and it lasts longer, making your work less productive over the course of a few days.

I haven't tried to do much with RPG Maker, but I've seen maybe a dozen RPG Maker games that are filled with typos, spelling mistakes, and bad punctuation. I'm willing to call developers that can't be bothered to run a spellcheck "lazy". And there's nothing wrong with that - the good projects stand out when the field is filled with so much crap.

 

[azurezero]

Re: Breeding Season

I haven't tried to do much with RPG Maker, but I've seen maybe a dozen RPG Maker games that are filled with typos, spelling mistakes, and bad punctuation. I'm willing to call developers that can't be bothered to run a spellcheck "lazy". And there's nothing wrong with that - the good projects stand out when the field is filled with so much crap.

most of us grew up with final fantasy 7 and text boxes full of "......................"

 

[jk103]

Re: Breeding Season

most of us grew up with final fantasy 7 and text boxes full of "......................"

It's been a while, but IIRC I think that's really more of a colloquialism than a mistake. I'm talking about RPG Maker games where you start it up and the first sentence has three spelling mistakes and no capital letters.

 

[azurezero]

Re: Breeding Season

It's been a while, but IIRC I think that's really more of a colloquialism than a mistake. I'm talking about RPG Maker games where you start it up and the first sentence has three spelling mistakes and no capital letters.

i try to avoid those, i tend to forget the ones on nouns...

 

[Swisher223]

Re: Breeding Season

Wow I actually never knew this project until I saw the youtube video outside of ULMF... Funny stuff.... I wonder if this whole debacle will make it much harder for new and relatively unknown developers (whether it be adult in nature or not) in obtaining or gaining support from patreon.

This is pretty big considering that this is supposedly the 2nd highest earning game in patreon on a per monthly (42k per month) basis so it's probably this biggest fail in adult crowdfunding to date.