I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

[HERO1000]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

And really, why shouldn't she protect her IP? She's trying to make a living here.

*sigh*, Like I said before, that argument would work ONLY if the piracy protection or the white knights or whatever are adding to her revenue. But It's not, just like all other sorts of DRM, Game Marking, Link erasing or whatever, that sort of thing always, Always results in decreasing revenue. It's not just useless and pointless. It's counter-productive and self-hurtful. On the contrary. People who reason she is making a living SHOULD want her to take down the over dramatic protections. Piracy protection has never helped any game developer or producer, and this here is no exception.


Don't mix things up, she's making a living out of her products. Not out of her anti-piracy system.

 

[Raxon66]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

See the deal here is that her work just isn't very good by anyone's standards, it's not an issue if you're charging money for low quality work, I'm sure many of us do understand that the bills need to be paid, but at the same time when you're running your business the way Vanja is you're going to end up destroying nearly all potential goodwill out there, no one is going to want to support Vanja's efforts and growth as an artist/programmer if this is how she acts, as if shes "entitled" to payment for work that is sub-par on nearly every front.

"As if" she's entitled to payment..? She is entitled to payment for her work. It's her right, they're her products, and any potential customer who doesn't think her work is worth paying for, can choose not to have them. What really does come off wrong, is when someone acts like they're entitled to have something for free just because they don't think it's worth paying for.

The results have been fairly clear in this thread alone, the majority being either "Vanja, eugh" or "Vanja, meh" and what little support she does have stems from the white knight category who would defend anything on naive principle alone.

Being on a pirate board and discussing something people aren't allowed to share here, is expected to entice rage and complaints. And many of the complainers here have been ranting about Vanja in at least one other thread in this forum before. As Papanomics pointed out, however, it really is a bit ironic how the people who call her games crap and claim not to care, are very eager to talk about them..

I like her games and art. So does other people, even in this very thread. We are aware of some of the issues with her games, but we've all seen a steady improvement, we like the stuff she makes, and we see the potential. If her newest games had the same lacks in both gameplay and artwork as her first ones (Lost Hearts, Bondage World, and Bibbi's Curse for example which were the three first games she made, aside from the free "Willy Wizard" one), then it would've been a different matter. The first ones usually had animations with nothing more than 2 frames each, making them look quite choppy. They also tended to have really jagged lines (probably due to being animated gif's with transparent background), while in her newer games they look smooth and have more frames (the animations in one of her newest games, Witchcraft World,

You must be registered to see the links

, have some really good looking animations).

Still, no matter how much some people complain about her games, and no matter how many speculations some people have about how she'd be better off by letting her work get pirated and how she's losing out on sales for this or that..here's the only real fact: she's making a living of this. She didn't do that before she started marking her products and cut down the piracy issues. Now, we can assume all kinds of things about sales and business and what's good and what's bad, but we're not sitting here with her sales statistics, and we're not sitting around with any statistics or whatsoever regarding her website and business. The only thing we do know, is that she's making a living of this, and she wouldn't have done so if most of the people who signed up to her site disliked what they got. And we also do know that even some people in this very thread have admitted buying a membership to her website, and plans to do so again.

 

[omp1234]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

that makes me really happy for some reason

I wouldn't say superior but I say yours has a little more appeal than hers. It could still use work either way you look at it.

 

[censuur]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

"As if" she's entitled to payment..? She is entitled to payment for her work.

Not in this world she's not, just because she makes something and asks money for it, for something she spent time to make, does not mean it is worth money and deserves to generate revenue. I spend time taking a shit, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to payment for my deuce even if I claim to people that I'm now doing in professionally.

Now, we can assume all kinds of things about sales and business and what's good and what's bad, but we're not sitting here with her sales statistics, and we're not sitting around with any statistics or whatsoever regarding her website and business. The only thing we do know, is that she's making a living of this, and she wouldn't have done so if most of the people who signed up to her site disliked what they got. And we also do know that even some people in this very thread have admitted buying a membership to her website, and plans to do so again.

Please don't confuse your own ignorance for something that is universally shared by others, some people do their homework and know what they are talking about, the foolish irony in your statement is you make some very big claims about her business and then proceed to say we can't make claims about her business because we lack the statistics.

So which is it? Is her business successful and thriving due to anti-piracy measures (I'm sure she would think and say so) and do you have hard facts to support that? Because facts HAVE shown that DRM is harshly detrimental to sales of just about any product, no documented cases have shown DRM increasing revenue.

I also like how you seemed to have glossed over the fact that the people in this thread that bought a membership cancelled it afterward and said it wasn't worth it, the "plans to do so again" is only as an argument for downloading a lot of her work in bulk when she's updated her content, which is not the kind of attitude you want your customers to have for your work.

 

[Assc0bar]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

Maybe I have really twisted personality, but to me, whole topic sounds like:

Some girl at snack bar fries dog shit under "special recipe", when selling for a good steak price, people understand what they eat shit, but they like her boobs so they continue to eat shit.

Guys, i dont like shit, regardless of saleswoman boobs size, and i dont care is she earns a living from it.

Some of the games have a really, really good idea on my opinion.
Like action side-scroller with futa monstergirls, female protag, even some yuri elements, BF with both small sprite animation and large animated scenes.
But the implementation is so fucking terrible, I feel offended just by playing it.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

If anti-piracy makes it so that even one person has to buy the game instead of steal it, it DOES increase revenue. There are absolutely no arguments as to why someone shouldn't protect their property. We are all here because the majority of us like to steal, don't try to justify our actions. We're wrong and act anyway because it benefits us, take that as it is, don't try to paint yourself right.

Having said that, I wouldn't much bother trying to pirate these games even if they weren't that protected. Just not up my alley.

 

[Judael]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

i was lurking this thread for a while.
Sry,maybe its just me,but i don't get the point of the discussion. Are you guys talking about her games secure/protection?
Cos honestly i had all her games (maybe not the last one) already cracked into the folder ,played and deleted after the 1st run.That's why i don't get this heavily secure you are talking about.

 

[Cactuses]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

So there was some marketing talk here earlier so I'll drop this text wall here



You know when it comes to general develobment like this, specially when you want to sell your game:

1. It would be good to first get a practise round down, improve to a point that compared to when shown to a stranger it would get "hey not bad" as a reaction rather than "meh" most of the time.

Nobody really wants unpolished games that clearly lack in appeal.

2. Actually have it playtested before hand. If a game does not get enough testing, bugs and terrible features will get in.
You should always have someone with criticizing view as a tester to get a round down, a good idea in your own head might always be so great afterall, testing phazes are important to actually call down changes.

3. On the 1.'s ending, polish the game. Little nuinsances and roughness when stacking up gives a hustled feel. A good game can feel frustating if there's constantly something that bugs about it (Like a bad animation that looks bad compared to rest in default actions).

4. Ditch "eh, i think its good enough" mindset if you really plan to sell it.

5. Effort. Effort. EFFORT. Put that in it if you want to sell it.



Piracy.

If you have gotten (good?) sales on your game and now its getting pirated, there are things to take into mind:

1. Does your game get pirated because people think it is not worth it to pay for?
2. Does it get pirated because it really is so good so it spread around?
3. Does it get pirated because its too expensive?

Get these things into consideration.
If the case is #1 or #3. You should rethink about the results of your sale and product.

in case of #2 things are trickier. While as it hurts sales it also gives you more exposure, so it is a trick pony whenever to take action on it or not. It is all down to reputation, spread, sales.. Exposure vs Sales.
When content is excellent it tends to show in sales and piracy. but as said, it is a tricky situation and all up to the develober whenever to take action and what kind of action.

Regardless, you have the right to protect your product and take action on it if you feel the sales are badly hurt, but you have to face it, it is incredibly diffucult to stop completely without also hurting legit customers.

 

[censuur]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

If anti-piracy makes it so that even one person has to buy the game instead of steal it, it DOES increase revenue.

That would certainly be true, if not for the fact that there are as many people that will avoid buying your product due to anti-piracy sentiments as there are people that would then be forced to and ultimately willing to buy your product. This is really about more than just Vanja at this point, but also just regular gaming titles that have flopped due to excessive DRM (simcity anyone?) While it is certainly undeniable that there might be some (short term) profits to be found in using DRM, the damage to your image is only worth it if you are not running a long-term business.

Though I suppose I'm arguing for "healthy business practices" as opposed to purely profitable ones that care little about long-term progress. As it stands though, the point remains, no single gaming series/franchise has benefited from DRM, quite the opposite in fact as the majority of them have had loss in following.

Another core reason why DRM is so despised is that it only ever really works for bad games anyway, if a game is great then it doesn't matter how well you secure it, someone will crack it and make it available. Only when your games are simply not worth the hassle will DRM truly block piracy, but then you've got yourself a piece of history that is both bad and customer unfriendly, effectively countering the "forgiveness" factor that customer goodwill would otherwise have afforded you.

As a guy who tries and buys, I can certainly say that DRM has probably cost a bunch of producers me as a customer, that's at least one guaranteed loss and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who operates like this, that's not even accounting for all the games I stopped buying and franchises I stopped supporting due to poor/malicious business practices (mass effect 3 day 1 DLC, Diablo 3 always online etc are a few of the examples here)

There are absolutely no arguments as to why someone shouldn't protect their property.

I'm fairly sure I've made quite a strong argument as to why you should let piracy go, exposure being a prominent one. If you shut down all these kinds of forums talking about and sharing your game, new people aren't going to learn about your products and will never know to support your efforts.

2. Does it get pirated because it really is so good so it spread around?

In these terms it's still better to just go around and ask people not to share your game, while you wont get everyone this way (you never will) a lot of people are well willing to support someone who does good work. The tricky part here is that there is simply a lot of people who just CANT buy your product, either they do not have the financial means or they somehow can't get you the money (credit card for example can be an issue for people outside the US) but they can still generate goodwill (praising your product on a forum, generating interest) and if you let it go, it's more likely a person like this will remember you when they CAN manage to buy one of your products.

A key point to remember is that we are discussing software, a product that doesn't really incur additional cost to the producer when others copy it (there is only a potential loss of sale, unlike say a piece of furniture that also costs materials to produce) so someone pirating your product doesn't COST you anything, whereas loss of goodwill ultimately will cost you customers, potential or current. And customers' goodwill is perhaps one of the most important factors of sales, you can sell someone just about anything if they want you to succeed.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

I think you overestimate PR, for someone to lose revenue because their game could easily be taken without pay. And for people who are going to buy a game to not buy it just because links to it for free are taken down? You're blowing up the issue to make your extremes more counterable

 

[censuur]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

I suppose I lack an argument to really convince you here, you can say I exaggerate PR's influence on sales and I can say it's fundamental, you can say DRM is guaranteed to get you more sales and I can say the number of people who would pirate a game they want and COULD afford is much lower than the number of customers you're missing due to lack of exposure and goodwill.

In the end, there are too many factors at play to make a clear case for any specific one being more influential than the other, so take my words as being my own stance on the matter. All I can guarantee you is that I have purchased bad games on goodwill alone, to support an author that proved he was worth it even though his current product was lacking, and I've avoided purchasing some great games from proven developers due to their poor history and use of DRM.

You can take that any way you want, maybe I am a rare minority and there's two people who will steal any game unless forced to buy it for every one like me, or maybe the opposite is true.

All I can say is that as a starting content producer, or any business really, if you're entering a competitive market customer goodwill is one of the most valuable resources out there, as your established competitors are likely to simply be better at what they do. A company the size of EA can get away with all the bullshit they want simply due to sheer size, a starting company will be left by the wayside if they even try something of the sort, and a reputation tends to stick long after you get rid of the cause.

 

[Paradoxical]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

My only input on this thread is that she doesn't use a 'tracer' because it would get her nothing; you can't do that. Not just 'without permission', but as a whole 'This is a serious crime' kind of thing.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

Do Vanja's games have DRM?

 

[djweish]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

That would certainly be true, if not for the fact that there are as many people that will avoid buying your product due to anti-piracy sentiments as there are people that would then be forced to and ultimately willing to buy your product. This is really about more than just Vanja at this point, but also just regular gaming titles that have flopped due to excessive DRM (simcity anyone?) While it is certainly undeniable that there might be some (short term) profits to be found in using DRM, the damage to your image is only worth it if you are not running a long-term business.

I don't think any of Vanja's games have DRM; at least, I haven't noticed it/heard of it. All she does is request people to take down links, as far as I know.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

My point exactly, it's not even part of the argument.

 

[nnescio]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

Side note, Simcity 2013's DRM has definitely affected its sales negatively. Of course, that's a pretty extreme example due to the sheer ineptitude of its implementation (and no, despite what EA says, it's DRM, not some 'online feature'.)

I do 'disagree' with censuur's sweeping generalization that DRM is always bad for sales though, as it is a very strong statement that is hard to confirm, with most game publishers not releasing their sales information and all. Steam also provides a strong counterexample, as its DRM seems to work very well, in terms of sales, due to its lack of intrusiveness.

Oh and Vanja's games don't seem to have DRM, so the whole point is moot.

 

[reddo]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

I don't think any of Vanja's games have DRM; at least, I haven't noticed it/heard of it. All she does is request people to take down links, as far as I know.

Supposedly it's a mark somewhere telling who got it. Like a "Game copy owned by djweish" that only Vanja can find. Which means that if you share it, she can trace it back to you on her list of buyers.

That's as non-obtrusive as DRM come. It's actually amazing. And it works on such a small-scale and it works very well.

This is the kind of thing we should try to help. This is good DRM. Since she can't know what you're doing unless you're doing something illegal, this also catches pirates without even existing in an honest client's use of her games.



Bigger companies don't do this because you can't just make a different cd for each customer, that'd be far too expensive on their scale.

And even if you did, the chances of two people who understand this and would just join their cds and compare them would be able to easily mess with the mark or even remove it completely.

They do something similar with CD-Keys and you see that very often (specially on PC). It just isn't that hard to make a program that generates compatible CD-Keys... So these only work on online-only environments which have server-side checks to guarantee this is a valid CD-Key (the amount of CD-Keys you can get with a text that big is so large that it's unlikely you'd ever have a duplicate making them at random).

 

[Slimeria]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

Vanja games are just terrible. It is laughable that someone with so little talent in every area a good h-game requires is so defensive over their awful games.

 

[Shadow7988]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

Vanja games are just terrible. It is laughable that someone with so little talent in every area a good h-game requires is so defensive over their awful games.

What kills me is even the art is really 'mediocre' at best. The fundamental core of the product, game or not, is incredibly lackluster and I see better stuff put out for free on hentai foundry. I never really got the curmudgeon of folks trying so hard to get her stuff. I've tried them and they don't really seem any better than those terrible krystal flashes with the nintendo characters that always seem to get dropped halfway during development before he starts working on a new one.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: I got a question about a certain heavily secure H-Artist.

What kills me is even the art is really 'mediocre' at best. The fundamental core of the product, game or not, is incredibly lackluster and I see better stuff put out for free on hentai foundry. I never really got the curmudgeon of folks trying so hard to get her stuff. I've tried them and they don't really seem any better than those terrible krystal flashes with the nintendo characters that always seem to get dropped halfway during development before he starts working on a new one.

Pretty simple, people want what they can't have (Easily obtain). Even though most people know that her games have a reputation for not being so great, you get threads like these constantly. Imagine if there wasn't word that the developer DRM'd or whatever she uses in her games. Most of us wouldn't even know who she is because there wouldn't be idiots begging for her games all the time. So all threads like this really do is get a sub-par developer far more attention than they deserve and you're honestly just playing into a marketing trap. "There is no such thing as bad publicity", etc, etc.

So really, if you can't find a game to pirate, there's probably a damn good reason, and it isn't because it's too difficult to pirate.