I said she "looks" like she has her shit together. Not that she actually does.
Also, yeah she does a shit job of keeping her identity a secret. The game explicitly tells the player who she is during the Nanabi fight which is in the first continent.
Earlier than that, actually. Putting together the clues isn't hard when you consider that Granberia and the Harpy Queen are both surprised to see her, which suggest she's not exactly someone who belongs on that island. The fact that Tamamo basically reveals it to Luka to next to no fanfare from Luka (his reaction was basically, "yeah, and..?" iirc) indicates that in-story, it was pretty obvious since Iliasburg.
Her plan at the beginning wasn't to check on the monsters and humans.
She actually has no plan at the beginning. She hates herself for what she did after finding her mom dead and confronted illias and lost. She doesn't actually know what she really wants to do until she travels with Luca.
Kind of both? it's implied she went to fight Ilias, who by that time curbstomped her pretty hard. It didn't make much sense for Ilias to keep her alive aside as a way to test Luka, though that plan in itself ran the risk of failing horribly. If Paradox is any indication, that seems to be the case ad infinitum. Alice does at one point state that she's interested in checking things out, though that could have simply been her excuse from the get-go.
Her asking why he cares about the harpy village, some bandits and those other small matters is just to show a difference in character and values. Her asking allows Luka to answer that it's because he's a hero and that's what a hero should do. Without her the concept that hero's help people wouldn't be deconstructed.
But, it works out, for the most part. Plansect and maybe two other instances are where his concept of heroism is tested, and not because she bugged him about it. For the most part, her inquiries don't really affect anything. Luka has an ideal he tries to live up to, and her contribution during Plansect and the Ant invasion amounted to "bruh." I harp on Plansect because it was legitimately the one time where she should have been more helpful. She did press him on whether he could qualify "good" and "bad" as objective truths when he was witnessing nature in action, despite how amoral it appeared.
That said, it was a good character-building moment. Luka couldn't come away with an answer aside "fuck it, everyone is sealed," which is a temporary solution, at best. Even Luka recognizes there was no simple answer that he could measure against his own morality. Either one tribe starves, or the other remains the prey indefinitely. Alice didn't really offer much aside asking Luka about his own morality. Obviously, he would have arrived at that conclusion himself.
Bro, Alice forces Luka to think about shit all the time. In Harpy village, if she wasn't there, Luka would've just fought the harpy's by himself end of story. He wouldn't know that the village had already sent tens of heroes before him, and the village would not have been inspired to try to solve the problem on their own. In fact, he'd probably lose there, because it was the distraction that the villagers caused that allowed him to even reach the harpy queen in the first place.
We see that Luka is aware of shit, a lot of the time. Just like with Alice being the monster lord, it really depends on whether he figures it's worth bringing up or not. Obviously, in this instance, if he sensed that the Queen was holding back, he wouldn't take her not being sealed the first time as him not hitting hard enough. He was hopeful and probably wanted to prove he wouldn't back down despite the threat of rape, so that he could talk to her. Alice's presence didn't even matter at that time. She came out of hiding and the Queen even seemed interested in what she would do. Alice's response basically solidified that the Queen could have gone hard mode from the beginning, but she chose to listen and discuss the issue with the villagers rather than activate the Exterminatus.
Alice forces Luka to think about the quests of the 4 wise men, saying that he shouldn't just trust the pope who "lays the path of the hero" out in front of him, but figure it out himself. She gives him insight on the past heroes and he needs to do research to figure out the way forward.
I think even Luka recognized it was a dumb premise for a trial. He's just so invested in the role that any opportunity to get stronger (no matter how snake oil) is worth considering. Alice breaking the sword and suggesting the four spirits just had the benefit of being legitimate.
No, I really think you're downplaying her involvement in the narrative. Like she's a considerable force that very heavily impacts the narrative for the good.
That's debatable. She's a plot device with a complex, sure. In terms of narrative relevance, you could have replaced her with a talking guide book and Luka would have accomplished the same shit with less burden.
Bro no it's not. Learning new skills in MGQ for Luka was an effort. Even something dumb like meditating was inspired by her.
She actually marvels at his ability to master meditation fairly quickly. A few times, he masters skills fairly quickly, faster than most. Even Granberia comments that his mastery of the quadruple giga is impressive. A skill he learned literally hours earlier, and even the creator of the skill is impressed by his progress.
Bruh... How does that contradict with the personality traits cool and aloof XD?
"Cool" implies she's chill about shit, religion included. The whole "as long as you don't try to convert me," argument comes to mind. In terms of "aloof", she really isn't. She makes a point of stating she won't get involved with Luka's fights early on, and then breaks that promise not a day later. Someone who is aloof would watch either from afar or in plain sight. The fact she feels obligated to step in with the Harpy Queen and then do nothing significant shows she's indecisive and impulsive. That's a bad combination. She only becomes more decisive in part 2 when the fate of the world is on the line and/or because Luka has influenced her personality so much.
Dude she was right on all of her criticisms.
It's not like she criticized him on things he was good at.
Not really. She criticized his ideal of heroism from the beginning, which was both unfair and quite rude. Luka was, for all intents and purposes, naive. So was she. Her only experience with heroes was that one time her mom decided to sacrifice herself, and the heroes in that instance (including Luka's dad) were racked with guilt over killing a monster who clearly wasn't as invested in the fight as they were. She wanted peace, and only in the aftermath did they realize that. They even lamented the fact when they realized that monster lord had a child.
Luka has another moment of self-reflection when confronting Lazarus about Ilias Kreuz. Rather than lamenting his betrayal of his and Marcellus's ideals, Lazarus throws it back in Luka's face. Without Alice there, Luka might have murdered the man or walked away and abandoned his quest after realizing that his uncle was right. Instead, Alice steps in and gives Luka a non-answer and reassures him of his moral superiority, despite the fact that none of what she says actually means anything. Without her, Luka would have had to come to a real answer. She just gives him an out that reinforces his own beliefs rather than challenges them.
I'm thinking back but in the beginning of the game, she criticizes him for wasting the salt on the slug monster, and immediately trying to help the harpy village and stuff like that.
Her criticisms got him to actually consider her words and pushed him into different actions.
Luka showed himself as a capable fighter, by Alice's own observations. She asks if he's so skilled, why he fights so sloppily. He answers that he's trying not to kill any monsters despite the danger to his person if he loses. This prompts Alice to give him the Angel Halo, so he can fight without holding back. Him learning subsequent skills is due to practice and natural talent, which Alice and others comment on frequently. Even Granberia admits at one point that she never roflstomped him into submission from day one because he showed incredible potential.
The Harpy Village matter, he had always intended to try and talk things through. Many of the conflicts that involve monsters that are morally-ambiguous and/or not outright villains, Luka had the intent of trying to get through to them through his words. Hell, when Sara is kidnapped, his first thought is to negotiate her freedom and a mutually-beneficial peace. Beelzebub is one of the first few times he abandons the "talk it out" strategy to deal with the issue. And, as I said, the few times Alice stepped in, she didn't do anything meaningful. Harpy Village, her presence dissuaded the Queen from going full power on Luka and to consider listening only as a reaction. Alice reassuring her of zero fucks given did nothing to change the outcome, either way.
It's not like she was fully critical the entire time either. She complimented him on his cooking, personality and steadfast nature.
His steadfast nature was a point of contention for half the series. She did compliment his cooking, sure. His personality irked her some, too. Only when she had stockholm'd him for so long did she grow fond of his quirks.
I also feel we've gotten a bit off-topic for the thread. We can discuss this further in pm's, if you want. You're right that we won't agree, but that's the benefit of debates. Both sides can keep their position without sacrificing their integrity.
actually,i like that concept of dominating a monster girl so she follow you around,but you can be "dominated" by one and its gameover because it means the end of your quest.pretty nice,it makes the protagonist less beta.
I think a protagonist can be alpha without sacrificing his self-respect. Having a harem of monster girls around to do your bidding, it feels incredibly beta. If you're confident in your skills, why do you need a bunch of chicks to be around? I can understand the odd special role, but not an entire city's worth of backup.
