What's new

ACT [八角家] Mission Mermaiden - Hasumi and the Deep Sea Sisters / ミッションマーメイデン -ハスミと深海の姉妹- (RJ268920)


DarkMist67

Jungle Girl
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
218
Reputation score
85
Different minigames for different enemies/bosses would actually be really cool tbh. More thematic, and even if some are a miss in terms of execution, at the very least you don't have to deal with them all the time. This game really is only missing a bit of oomph in the H mechanics and platforming elements, the foundation and art is already really solid.
 

Cupio

Demon Girl Master
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
674
Reputation score
166
Just bugs and tentacles, nothing that interest me. Otherwise, could had been a good H-game, but playing a primarily H-game when the H don't interest you is just pointless.
 

Jesus

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,066
Reputation score
562
Most games that include any sort of struggle system use them as a means to an end. Simply by the nature of trying to include animations/scenes for the player's enjoyment that interrupt normal gameplay within that gameplay, you've got an incongruity, a "conflict of interest" if you will - the player wants to watch the animation, but the player also wants to continue playing.
The player's either then railroaded into one of those two outcomes by the difficulty of the "minigame", or it's trivial enough to escape that they become synonymous with frustration. It's hard to enjoy these scenes when you're trying to progress through the game to get to the next ones, and letting them progress all the way through usually results in game-over.

Personally I think the best way to do struggle systems is simply have them turn-based. The player can take in the animation (and that stage of that animation where applicable) at their leisure, then do something about it once they've seen enough. It would make the struggle an integrated part of gameplay, allowing much more depth instead of a very binary "did you mash X enough/put in the right combination of controls to break free in a short enough time?". In other words, it lets the player have their cake and eat it too - instead of watching the animation (the whole point of the game's existence) compromising their ability to progress.

There's probably a better reason than nobody having thought of it for it not to have been done before - probably just that it's more work than otherwise.
 

Captainstarfish

Demon Girl Pro
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
494
Reputation score
566
Just bugs and tentacles, nothing that interest me. Otherwise, could had been a good H-game, but playing a primarily H-game when the H don't interest you is just pointless.
This is just a first preview thing at the moment, although I do hope that more varied content gets added. The setting demands a few alien beasties, after all.
 

Jesus

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,066
Reputation score
562
Just bugs and tentacles, nothing that interest me. Otherwise, could had been a good H-game, but playing a primarily H-game when the H don't interest you is just pointless.
To each their own, this my shit.


After having played it, this is definitely one of those games where struggle mechanics are just there for the sake of combat-rape. As above, it's a matter of mash left/right if you don't want to watch the animation, press nothing if you do (and suffer the in-game consequences). There's only one criteria to fulfill which is the speed of your mashing, so there's no way for those animations to happen "naturally" during otherwise normal gameplay, and if anything it just slows the game its self down to no advantage except having the animations occur during gameplay.
As above, I'd really like to see a turn-based struggle system implemented. Like another user mentioned, something extremely simplistic like in that Kuniochi that has varying chances of failure depending on the choices you make and the circumstances surrounding. Eg. try to kill the enemy, try to reverse the grapple, or conserve strength until the next turn. Then the questions (can) become "What enemy are you grabbed by and what is the optimal method to end the grab? How much HP/Energy do you/they have? Do you have any get-out-of-jail-free items, or any others that may help? Are you under any status effects?" and beyond, instead of just "How fast can you mash buttons?" (to which the answer will always be "fast enough" unless the player suffers heavily from arthritis).

As for how to handle multiple-enemy scenes, it could be as simple as getting the next enemy's distance and movespeed, and using that to determine how many turns until they join in.

Anyway, is the current playable version the public 0.02 demo, or are there supporter-only versions out?
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
211
Reputation score
171
Current playable version is 0.03, which is downloadable for free from their Ci-En page. The main difference between that and the 0.02 version is that the equipable items actually function properly (in 0.02 they don't actually have any effects). There's probably a few more bug fixes but I didn't notice any major changes.

Someone mentioned it before, but I'm too lazy to find there post to quote it, so here goes:
-The current demo will be the public version until October
-In October, the offical demo version of the game will be released. What exactly that will include has not been mentioned, to my knowledge
-Starting in October, they will add a paid plan to their Ci-En profile. This plan will last from October until March 2020, and will grant access to monthly updates to the demo.
-In April 2020, the final game will be released, and the paid CI-En plan will be discontinued.


As for the other discussion, I think it's pretty obvious that the game hasn't been properly balanced yet. I mean, the energy tanks cost 200? And you get about 2000 currency for just steam rolling through 1-1? Considering each tank lets you full heal and remove all grapples and remove all status effects, that makes the game basically unloseable to anyone who bothers to interact with the shop. Not to mention the impossible-to-fail struggle system is coupled with an equipable item that makes breaking free EASIER.

I can kind of forgive 1-1 and 1-2 being mind-numbingly easy because that, together with the absurd power at basically no cost that comes from the shop, makes me think it's been set to levels to smooth along system testing. I'm not sure exactly where added difficulty is going to come into this, since as has been said, there is no penalty for just being grabbed and breaking out immediately, which means the only enemies in the demo that can ever possibly harm you are the soldiers with their guns and the last boss with his janky hitboxes (even then, I take more damage from my own attacks knocking me into him than from anything he does).

I kind of agree with Darkmist on this one, the way it's set up right now...doesn't even really feel like a game. Considering how much work they put into Undercrust, I find it hard to believe they will be satisfied with that. There are difficulty levels planned (you can already see them in the menu), so that might alleviate some of the problem, but my suspicion is that World 1 (or at least those first two stages) will be tutorial-level easy, and the real game will pick up after that. That's kind of my bare-minimum hope, at least. Taking damage on being grappled, rather than just on orgasm (or even entirely in place of it) would probably be a good place to start.

...though really what I'm most concerned about at the moment is the sheer number of bugs in really basic level stuff, like movement and menus. As an Alpha demo, I find it kind of adorable, especially since I know it's their first foray into action games, but it looks like a LOT of cleaning up will be necessary before that October demo. Here's hoping they can pull that off without having to push back their schedule any more than they already have.
 

comakill23

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
131
Reputation score
114
To each their own, this my shit.


After having played it, this is definitely one of those games where struggle mechanics are just there for the sake of combat-rape. As above, it's a matter of mash left/right if you don't want to watch the animation, press nothing if you do (and suffer the in-game consequences). There's only one criteria to fulfill which is the speed of your mashing, so there's no way for those animations to happen "naturally" during otherwise normal gameplay, and if anything it just slows the game its self down to no advantage except having the animations occur during gameplay.
As above, I'd really like to see a turn-based struggle system implemented. Like another user mentioned, something extremely simplistic like in that Kuniochi that has varying chances of failure depending on the choices you make and the circumstances surrounding. Eg. try to kill the enemy, try to reverse the grapple, or conserve strength until the next turn. Then the questions (can) become "What enemy are you grabbed by and what is the optimal method to end the grab? How much HP/Energy do you/they have? Do you have any get-out-of-jail-free items, or any others that may help? Are you under any status effects?" and beyond, instead of just "How fast can you mash buttons?" (to which the answer will always be "fast enough" unless the player suffers heavily from arthritis).

As for how to handle multiple-enemy scenes, it could be as simple as getting the next enemy's distance and movespeed, and using that to determine how many turns until they join in.

Anyway, is the current playable version the public 0.02 demo, or are there supporter-only versions out?
I strongly agree, the turn based system is the best. A good RNG system, one that punishes you for getting grappled successively and status effects, not just health(or maybe not even taking into account health, maybe). In the end even a simple turn based system is better than button mash which is either a free pass at the cost of raping my keyboard or isn't, the only "inbetween" consists of hardcore keyboard rape which sucks even more.

Anyhow, on to the cool stuff


Robots? Apparently we getting trap type enemies in stage 2 which is cool.
 

Renestrae

Devious Succubus
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
136
Reputation score
55
I'll chime in with my 2 cents since struggle mechanics are dear to my heart and I personally can't enjoy a game without some form of them. :D

First, why a struggle mechanic at all?
An example for this would be that Marle game. I only played a couple minutes of it, since the scenes are based off of your MP meter and it seems like there's not much you can do as a player to keep yourself from getting raped, other than keeping your MP up and finishing fights quickly.
For me the struggle mechanics are part of what makes you immersed in the situation. It's the difference between watching a hentai and playing it, the active ingredient.
For me personally a good struggle mechanic is what makes the non-con fantasy clear, it's the difference between saying "keep your hands up" and actually tying their hands in a BDSM session. The hopelessness of the situation, and thus the sexual thrill, can be enhanced drastically by a good struggle system that gets really hard to escape, but not impossible.
But then there's the problem of clashing with the core incentive, player progression in the game. While I feel Girl in the Red Slave Collar was an excellent game in almost every regard, I still agree with the sentiment that button mashing isn't the way to handle a struggle system. The difference being that one gives you a clear turning point, where you can take player agency and escape; but fail there, and it plays the animation separately from the event. This isn't always the case in that game, but it's where I get my idea for a struggle system from, which could maybe fit a sidescroller/platformer better than the mashing we so often see.

So, how would I do it differently?
The basis for this system would be a clear catch animation, the enemy extends their arms, or tentacles, or maybe raises their stun-gun or whatever, then, only if it connects, does it start the struggle. I'm not saying that running through an enemy should never immediately start a struggle, but it irks me that jumping over enemies in some games, your feet clip their head and suddenly you lock onto the ground and an animation plays. Maybe have the enemy play a bash animation in that case and the player takes damage, but it shouldn't start a hscene/struggle.

So next, you got caught. What now? There is a brief pause to let the player realize they got caught, maybe the screen vignette flashes pink, whatever. Now is the time for a struggle event. I have two ideas for this.
You can either base this on RNG if you want, like Unko Morimori Maru does it, where the higher chance options are more resource expensive, maybe have like an expensive "force field shock" escape, a normal "all-out fight" escape and a budget "kinda struggle" escape option...
But what I think would fit this game better would be Girl in the Red Slave Collar-style QTEs. You have like 7 chances and if you fail four, you're getting the D. The number of tries and success threshold can of course be modified by status effects, and this is just a baseline example.

Wouldn't this create a much bigger workload for the developers?
While yes, everything takes time to implement, I imagine this whole escape mechanic happening in a freeze frame, no animation whatsoever, you just see the frame where the hand/tentacle/stun-gun hit your character in the background, while the struggle UI takes the foreground. Now if you escape, you're free to go like nothing happened, and if you get caught the animation plays for a fixed time. Then, after that time, it can progress. Either an enemy that is standing close can join in, or it goes into the next phase of the animation (second tentacle up the butt?!), and this can trigger the whole "freeze frame! now escape! lost? here's your animation!" loop again.

To me this seems like the perfect system, it avoids the progression/H conflict, since the H-catch move is just a part of their moveset, and the H scene a logical consequence of failing the QTE. You can then tie it further into the overarching gameplay and lore by adding further consequences to being caught and raped - corruption or escalating bondage that's harder to escape from (lasting status effects?) into your game, but that's up to the style of game and story of course. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk. :p
 

A Lost Cat

Lurker
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
323
Reputation score
212
I think button mash for an action game is A-ok, i don't want to get bogged down by weird or obtuse mechanics when i'm just looking to fiddle with my pickle to a particular scene.

When it comes to turn-based games, i don't mind a little mechanical juggling, but i absolutely hate QTE styled anything in any form, anywhere. Girl in the red slave collar had a good idea with it, but imho, i found it difficult to get the enemy to do what i wanted anyway (which, in-game, would be generally what they would be wanting, obviously.), While i do continuously go back to that game for the good art, scenes, and positions presented, i found it annoyingly difficult to get the enemy to actually lay some goddamn pipe, instead of choosing instead to either gut punch her in armor, or even only remove part of her outfit and just taking oral for like 9 straight loads. and i'm sitting here with my dick in my hand, thinking "I've got a perfectly abusable vagina under this armor! I'm purposefully getting grabbed here! C'mon!"

If anyone's even heard of Toribash, in theory, it could be used tangentally for an interesting struggle mechanic, not particularly it's obtuse and weird joint extend/contract/hold control was, but rather, HOW you want to struggle. Set up certain enemies with a weakness to being say, thrown off or kicked, and others to being bitten, punched back, or maybe even tickled. Insult them and they might throw you down in disgust. But keep the values hidden until you get a certain item or skill that lets you see the weakness values, maybe even in stages of upgrade.

I've put down good fun games with a QTE mechanic because those mechanics are awful, and i can generally wrap my brain around why someone would like a thing even though i don't (i cna even sympathize with inverted camera controls even though i feel like killing myself any time i accidentally play anything with them on), but QTEs i cannot imagine how they are liked.

TL;DR, I'm okay with mash to escape in action games, sure try something new in turnbased, QTEs are disgusting.
 

Renestrae

Devious Succubus
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
136
Reputation score
55
i found it difficult to get the enemy to do what i wanted anyway (which, in-game, would be generally what they would be wanting, obviously.), While i do continuously go back to that game for the good art, scenes, and positions presented, i found it annoyingly difficult to get the enemy to actually lay some goddamn pipe, instead of choosing instead to either gut punch her in armor, or even only remove part of her outfit and just taking oral for like 9 straight loads. and i'm sitting here with my dick in my hand, thinking "I've got a perfectly abusable vagina under this armor! I'm purposefully getting grabbed here! C'mon!"
If an enemy has multiple scenes, let's say nipple pinching/eating ass/doggystyle, then they could have a symbol above their head when they do their telegraphed attack, then when the QTE comes, and you decide you wanna see that particular scene you can choose to fail it intentionally? (and try to get out if it's the one he did three times before) I think that could remedy that problem.

I've put down good fun games with a QTE mechanic because those mechanics are awful, and i can generally wrap my brain around why someone would like a thing even though i don't (i cna even sympathize with inverted camera controls even though i feel like killing myself any time i accidentally play anything with them on), but QTEs i cannot imagine how they are liked.
I like when I need to actually try to get away, and not just reduce the lifespan of my keyboard while training my fingers a little :D
No but seriously, I can get why some folks would have a preference against a reaction-based mechanic, that's why I suggested the RPG-style escape options too. That way you could just choose if you want to escape or not; but if your character is full of sticky slime, exhausted, naked, and surrounded by 15 enemies - then the chance might not be 100% tho....
 

Caernarvon

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
50
Reputation score
32
Regardless of any of this there is zero reason not to include an adjustment for struggle difficulty. Just want to watch the scenes? Switch it to easy. Want it to be an actual mechanic? Normal. Extra challenge? Hard.

Implementing that, and I know this by experience, is extremely simple and there is no reason not to do it. It adds player choice to the mix and everyone wins.
 

Azrail26232

Demon Girl
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
452
Reputation score
351
Regardless of any of this there is zero reason not to include an adjustment for struggle difficulty. Just want to watch the scenes? Switch it to easy. Want it to be an actual mechanic? Normal. Extra challenge? Hard.

Implementing that, and I know this by experience, is extremely simple and there is no reason not to do it. It adds player choice to the mix and everyone wins.
The problem is is that it doesn't actually do anything.

Most of the first stage grapples do no lust damage, so either grapples are hard enough that you can't win, or easy enough that you can always struggle out with no damage if you actually try. there's no middle ground.
 

WellIGuess

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Messages
60
Reputation score
17
QTE's are bad not because they're too hard or too easy but because they force you to pay attention. It's an H-game, ideally, the only thing you're paying attention to is the animations. Not to mention they're generally a lot harder to do one-handed *cough cough*. That's the reason why the good old-fashioned button mash is used so often -it's basic, but it works.
We've been at this discussion for a while now and several good ideas have been suggested (as well as some not so good ones, though I'm sure everyone has their opinion on the matter) but personally I'd much rather the developer devoted his time in making the platforming elements more playable than any weird struggle system, no matter how successful.
 

comakill23

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
131
Reputation score
114
QTE's are bad not because they're too hard or too easy but because they force you to pay attention. It's an H-game, ideally, the only thing you're paying attention to is the animations. Not to mention they're generally a lot harder to do one-handed *cough cough*. That's the reason why the good old-fashioned button mash is used so often -it's basic, but it works.
We've been at this discussion for a while now and several good ideas have been suggested (as well as some not so good ones, though I'm sure everyone has their opinion on the matter) but personally I'd much rather the developer devoted his time in making the platforming elements more playable than any weird struggle system, no matter how successful.
QTE is imo too easy, GHV(Ghost hunter vena) had it and it became incredibly easy to just QTE out of almost everything after the first like hour or two of gameplay.
 

SoulBreaka

Cthulhu
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
615
Reputation score
88
Good struggle mechanics are the reason why Akakubi (red collar slave), fallen kingdom and maybe princess sacrifice were my favourites. Might as well through in Maidensnow eve as well. I really want the akakubi creator to resume on his latest project with the blonde mc though...

EDIT: All dem likes wao. Also I should add that continuity and consistency works real with struggle mechanics. Like lasting graphical effects and status ailments.
 
Last edited:

Azrail26232

Demon Girl
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
452
Reputation score
351
New update on the blog, I'm really liking these more frequent weekly updates they're doing now.
Good news for those of you annoyed by the fact that there's little to trip up a player not aiming to get caught, the new update talks about an enemy they've added for world 2.

Some kind of tentacle tree that emits aphrodisiac gas, giving Hasumi a gas meter that rises as she stays in range of the enemy. basically serves as an environmental hazard. max out the gauge and you get hit with an aphrodisiac status, which sounds like it will either prevent the player from avoiding enemies or make Hasumi approach them herself.

Edit: Another update, this time end of month report for August.

Over august, the group has introduced 3 regular enemies, and two turret-type enemies with not h-animations, all for world 2. They've also been bugfixing, though that is only 20-30% done, and will continue into september.

Of more immediate note, they've released a 0.03version for the latest demo, which should implement saving and fix the mouseclick freeze issue. I say should because this version isn't working for me, i can move my selection in the menu, but can't select any options, not even new game. Mousecliccing still froze that, so it seems there's still some issues. anyone else getting these issues or is this version actually working for some?

One more thing i noted, the group answered a couple questions in this update, one of which was about the various status effects. According to the creator, there are 8 total status effects in the game, including the climax state which does nothing. They note that the demon parasite staus is currently non-effectual, which explains why i couldn't figure out its effects, and that they've plans to include more "rare" status effects that'll be even harder to find in later versions.

This is very interesting, since I'm only away of 7 status effects so far:

Climax - any orgasm, no effect, ends if you stand still, sometime bugs out when you have other status and you get a copy of some other status effect instead but keeps to the standard climax behavoir
Hypnosis - from the guards with thrown traps
Latent Hypnosis - cumming after the first 4-5 orgasms while fingered by the trap guard
Blissout - getting to a certain stage of grapple with the jellyfish
Blissout seal - as with Latent hypnosis, you get it on orgasm with the jelly fish, but only after your first 4-5 orgasms with that enemy
Demon Parasite - Random chance to acquire on cumming to the parasite plant pod... thing. Appears to have no effects right now, according to creators Q&A
Slime - Acquired by being hit by the slime projectiles launched by the boss in 1-2, or the hanging pods in the same area

I've done a pretty in depth search for an eighth effect, but I've had no luck, even after raising hasumi's pollution and orgasms over 100, and going at least 10 rounds with each enemy. Anyone else found anything?

Edit 2: Asked the dev on Ci-En about the 8th status effect, as you might have guessed its an advanced status effect for the plant pod, much like the jellyfish has the seal and the men have Latent Hypnosis. The reason i couldn't find it was because you upgrade it in a different way; you need to get the demon parasite effect and then run though multiple maps without removing it. Once done it will upgrade to 胎動する魔種, which translates to quickening/fetal demon seed. Haven't noticed any gameplay effects thus far from it, much like the other advanced status effects its only cleared by the purifier item.
 
Last edited:

JuJuBee06

Jungle Girl
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
44
Reputation score
9
I had no issues with the new update, but as far as I can tell, only a save and load feature has been added, stage 2 is still unavailable atm.

I wish something was adjusted in future updates so that struggling bar depleted faster (but maybe filled faster too) because waiting minutes to achieve multiple climaxes is frustratingly slow.
 

Azrail26232

Demon Girl
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
452
Reputation score
351
I had no issues with the new update, but as far as I can tell, only a save and load feature has been added, stage 2 is still unavailable atm.

I wish something was adjusted in future updates so that struggling bar depleted faster (but maybe filled faster too) because waiting minutes to achieve multiple climaxes is frustratingly slow.
I think that's mostly just an issue stemming from the fact that we only have about a sixth of the game right now. it feels like you have to grind or repeat actions because the length of actual play we have is so short. Hopefully once we get the full length game things will feel like they progress more naturally, especially since we'll have additional progression from the pollution stat.

And yeah it was basically just bugfixes and the save/load feature. not getting another content update for another 2 months.

Edit: Not sure how recently they added it, but there a second twitter link on their blog now to what seems to be a dedicated public relations/progress report. Apparently they've been working on the final boss of world one this week, and they posted this image a day or so ago.



It could be tentacles, but the merging and the smaller strands feel more like spiderweb or something similar to me. Either way, hopefully they'll do an end of week post in the next day or so, as they have for the past month, so we may get some more info then.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
211
Reputation score
171
blog said:
Progress this week:
-Prepared images and text for the announce page
-Added more actions for Hasumi (Super attack, crouch attack)
-Tuning for Stage 1-2's boss (Added attack and bind patterns)
-Tuning for the Restraint system (Struggle difficulty will be affected by restraint level, Hasumi's corruption level, and other status effects)
-Other minor tuning

Still to do:
-Tuning for World 1 Boss
-Tuning for stage 1-3 and 2-1
-Tuning for World 2 Basic Enemies
-Game pad functionality
-Tutorial windows
-Functionality to change the World Map
-Small adjustments to status effects
-Other small adjustments
-Bug fixing
There's a video of her Super move on the blog, but it looks like it's going to be pretty useless outside of bosses as "most enemies will die in one hit anyway," according to them.

Either way, supposedly it's three weeks until the official trial release, assuming they can finish that To Do list in time. I don't think they've released a list of what all will be included in the demo, but judging from this list, it's going to be all of World 1 (maybe 3 stages + boss? judging by what's on the world map now) and one stage in World 2. Undercrust had a pretty expansive demo, and a pretty significant amount of content added on top of it with the main game, so I'm hoping for the same here, though obviously the amount of content in regards to play time will be significantly shorter with an action game.
 

Caernarvon

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
50
Reputation score
32
"-Tuning for the Restraint system (Struggle difficulty will be affected by restraint level, Hasumi's corruption level, and other status effects) "

Welp, I'm back on the hype train, feelsgoodman
 
Top