ACT [八角家] Mission Mermaiden - Hasumi and the Deep Sea Sisters / ミッションマーメイデン -ハスミと深海の姉妹- (RJ268920)
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DarkMist67
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you still died in kirby after running into a few enemies 
i loved kirby even though it was on the easier side, game was just fun to play. LIke i said, my biggest issue with this game is the inability to lose except on the boss
i loved kirby even though it was on the easier side, game was just fun to play. LIke i said, my biggest issue with this game is the inability to lose except on the boss
Tenma
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You were killed to death after running into ALL the enemies m8ty. Not just one or two, you can clear an entire screen of enemies with your after damage invincibility if there's no insta-death pits. Which I feel will be all over this game eventually. If it's like its spelunking prequel.you still died in kirby after running into a few enemies
i loved kirby even though it was on the easier side, game was just fun to play. LIke i said, my biggest issue with this game is the inability to lose except on the boss
If want a game over stand in front of the shooty boys until your HP's low and let an enemy grapple you. I think I died once while just running forwards trying to tank their damage.
IAmAKi
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Actually I do think there should be some sort of punishment/corruption for being repeatedly caught. The struggle mechanic could get harder to a cap, I suppose.
Honestly though I'm happy with things even if we don't get this. The scenes are great and the gameplay's coming along. Player movement and animations just need to be polished.
Honestly though I'm happy with things even if we don't get this. The scenes are great and the gameplay's coming along. Player movement and animations just need to be polished.
DarkMist67
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A screen, but not the whole levels worth yes? and currently the pits dont do damage from what i remember, which is why i had an issue with the platforming element as well. But like i said, i take a wait and see approach, much of this "could" change towards the final product.
And no, i dont want a game over standing in front of shooty boys, I want a gameover for getting hit by too many shooty boys while trying to successfully navigate the platforms
In any case, its not like i won't be trying out every demo and seeing the progress, this demo was easily an upgrade over the last besides some weird bugs which may have just been on my end
Well, good news: that's already in the demo. That's the purpose of the debuffs (in addition to granting you new h animations).
DarkMist67
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As far as I could tell, simply getting caught, at least before having any other debuffs doesn't actually progress the corruption or scenes. on the jellyfish, I got caught multiple times, and on one of them i let myself stay captured while keeping the green escape bar nearly full for over 2 minutes and it never progressed despite sitting there for ages. So you need to let that struggle bar empty the first time before some enemies can even start doing anything to her currently
Fenril
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I went over this before.....
Debuffs in this game work the same way as multiple grapples did in Undercrust. The more debuffs you have on you, the harder it gets to struggle out of. It's just that the demo currently doesn't have enough to make it nearly impossible like some people want, and the lack of a save function means each time you play you also can't keep your corruption status, which also contributes to struggling.
Try doing this: play through all of 1-2, making sure to end the stage while being slimed. Then go back to 1-1 and pile on all the debuffs from the other enemies here. Get hypnotized, raped by the pods, and get raped by the tentacles. Let the animations go for an orgasm or two, and maybe use the secret area to respawn some enemies, as well as the healing items. (You can also go to the VERY beginning of the stage to respawn everything after going in there.)
After a bit you'll notice that it'll be MUCH more difficult if you have lots of debuffs on along with a descent amount of corruption.
Debuffs in this game work the same way as multiple grapples did in Undercrust. The more debuffs you have on you, the harder it gets to struggle out of. It's just that the demo currently doesn't have enough to make it nearly impossible like some people want, and the lack of a save function means each time you play you also can't keep your corruption status, which also contributes to struggling.
Try doing this: play through all of 1-2, making sure to end the stage while being slimed. Then go back to 1-1 and pile on all the debuffs from the other enemies here. Get hypnotized, raped by the pods, and get raped by the tentacles. Let the animations go for an orgasm or two, and maybe use the secret area to respawn some enemies, as well as the healing items. (You can also go to the VERY beginning of the stage to respawn everything after going in there.)
After a bit you'll notice that it'll be MUCH more difficult if you have lots of debuffs on along with a descent amount of corruption.
DarkMist67
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I understand that. However, my point is you cannot reach that level debuffs and corruption without spending a large amount of time intentionally setting it up. Enemies simply cant apply anything naturally because its too easy to mash out even under the slime status (which is the only thing that can be applied outside of a grapple currently. Like you said, you have to "let the animations go" for an orgasm or two, on top of stacking everything from every enemy to get that level of struggle difficulty. Even then (and I did what you suggested already), its still not exactly dangerous or threatening by any stretch, but at least it might force an orgasm on your character if you go running into everything after that point.
Im not out here asking for some insane difficulty or requiring people to develop monster mash skills, I literally just want enemies to do SOMETHING through natural game progression without requiring absurd levels of set-up. Maybe more natural hazards like the slime, or enemies that apply something on a grab which stacks up. Ranged attacks like darts which apply status effects, enemies that break her clothes easily so future grabs start in a more progressed state. Theres a lot of ways to go about it with the foundation he has laid out, Im just waiting for it to be implemented better.
Im not out here asking for some insane difficulty or requiring people to develop monster mash skills, I literally just want enemies to do SOMETHING through natural game progression without requiring absurd levels of set-up. Maybe more natural hazards like the slime, or enemies that apply something on a grab which stacks up. Ranged attacks like darts which apply status effects, enemies that break her clothes easily so future grabs start in a more progressed state. Theres a lot of ways to go about it with the foundation he has laid out, Im just waiting for it to be implemented better.
myspace121
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man i will make it easier for u, go alone make some h-games i will fund your games.
if its interesting for me and my community u can sell it and profit is yours.
but if its trash, stop making nonsense critics on h-games
just pm me if u interesting
DarkMist67
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So not only are you a literal two cent (2 message) troll who isn't going to contribute to discussion on the actual game, but you are also going criticize my criticisms of a game? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Just because someone does not have the skillset to do something, doesn't mean they don't have valuable knowledge or insight on the topic (try every coach for every sport ever for example). I do not like certain aspects of the game design, and while it is entirely subjective in the end, that doesn't mean I can't criticize or speak to it at all.
So, either contribute to the discussion, or go make a third post elsewhere
So, either contribute to the discussion, or go make a third post elsewhere
kiko
aka the Asian rapper Kikkoman Flowsauce
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Hahahahah this must be the dumbest reply I've seen on this forumman i will make it easier for u, go alone make some h-games i will fund your games.
if its interesting for me and my community u can sell it and profit is yours.
but if its trash, stop making nonsense critics on h-games
just pm me if u interesting
Azrail26232
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I'm going to crosspost something Kyrieru said yesterday about struggle mechanics in their thread for Lufuclad, which i think is rather relevant to this discussion:
Obviously, this is not a desirable outcome.
This is why the vast majority of h-games are easy. most game devs deliberately made it so you don't need to savescum, or even really strategise in battles or plan out your build, because that would detract from the primary draw of the game. Likewise, developers need to be careful when creating mechanics that interact with their h-animations, because if the game hampers the player's enjoyment of the hentai, the players will just skip or cheat through the game to get to what they really want.
As a system, struggle NEEDS to enhance the h-animations, not hinder the player's enjoyment of them. And lets be honest, that's actually really hard; anything that is going on peripherally to the animation itself is going to draw attention from said animation, be something as minor as having to mash a button, or something more complex like having to quickly recognise and input a series of QTE commands. Looking at things from this perspective, i do agree with Kyrieru in that neither of these really add to the h-animation itself, and if that's the metric you're using to determine worth then yes, both systems are kinda pointless, at least beyond the point of giving the players the yes/no choice of: do I want to see this animation?
With regards to actually making a system that enhances the h aspects of a game? I have no idea. I don't have any experience in making any kind of game, nor am i knowledgeable about the theories of game design or the psychology of gamers.
But if you can't make a system that enhances your games primary draw, then at the very least it shouldn't interfere with it. Hence the struggle system that so many use. It's not the best thing they could use, but it's a low-effort solution that doesn't harm the game, and being low effort it let's the developer focus their attentions to where they CAN measurably improve the game.
Edit: Actually, I just thought of a good example of a struggle system that would, by Kyrieru's definition, add to the hentai aspects rather than detract:
Kunoichi Botan, and specifically the half-oni guards that are the standard h-enemy of the game.
The struggle system for this enemy is interesting because it isn't just a matter of mashing the escape option. Instead, the player has a series of options, one of which is an attack option that will instantly kill the enemy and end the battle.
But only if it succeeds.
The gameplay of this encounter is all about managing three stats: escape chance, lust, and the enemy's orgasm meter. Escape chance starts low, and you only get one shot; fail and the enemy will kill you. to avoid this, you have to use the other options, which let the enemy molest you, or intensify the severity of the h-encounter, going from groping the breasts through intercrural all the way to penetrative sex. The more severe the sex action, the faster your escape chance rises, but the faster your respective lust bars rise too, providing a balance of risk and reward.
If you let your own lust fill up, Ajisai will cum, and doing so too many times will cause her to give in, ceasing all resistance and preventing the use of your surprise attack. If you let the enemy cum, they will creampie Ajisai, which due to specifics of the story that I'll not go into leads to a game over. This provides a number of possible outcomes beyond the simplistic sex/no sex that button mashing gives you: you could die by attacking too early and fluffing your attack roll, cum too many times and give in to your own lust, stall too long and let the enemy finish inside, or succeed and strike down the enemy in their moment of distraction.
I really enjoyed this mechanic, and despite the game having a galley I much prefer to reload one of my saves and revisit the battles when going back to this game, as they're fun and engaging. There's also a sort of meta-game for those who are playing the battles as part of the game, rather than in the gallery: You don't want Ajisai to die and set you back, but you also want to see the hentai, so how far can you push the severity of the h-battle before you take more lust than acceptable or risk losing? The game even rewards this, because there's a point roughly halfway through the enemy's orgasm meter where the enemy will try to initiate penetration. You have the options to allow it (bad, because counterattacking during penetrative sex is harder), try to avoid it, or counter attack while he tries to insert. Counter attacking during this action gives a bonus to your chance of killing the enemy, rewarding this sort of playstyle.
One of, if not THE reason to play h-games is for the H-animations. That is why people are here, rather than playing skyrim or dark souls or whatever. Anything that interferes with that, be it making it too challenging to access some animations or just that parts of the gameplay are outright tedious will actively harm the game, and incentivise players to cheat or seek out savefiles so they can skip to the gallery, essentially wasting all the time the developer has spent on making the game part of the h-game.
Obviously, this is not a desirable outcome.
This is why the vast majority of h-games are easy. most game devs deliberately made it so you don't need to savescum, or even really strategise in battles or plan out your build, because that would detract from the primary draw of the game. Likewise, developers need to be careful when creating mechanics that interact with their h-animations, because if the game hampers the player's enjoyment of the hentai, the players will just skip or cheat through the game to get to what they really want.
As a system, struggle NEEDS to enhance the h-animations, not hinder the player's enjoyment of them. And lets be honest, that's actually really hard; anything that is going on peripherally to the animation itself is going to draw attention from said animation, be something as minor as having to mash a button, or something more complex like having to quickly recognise and input a series of QTE commands. Looking at things from this perspective, i do agree with Kyrieru in that neither of these really add to the h-animation itself, and if that's the metric you're using to determine worth then yes, both systems are kinda pointless, at least beyond the point of giving the players the yes/no choice of: do I want to see this animation?
With regards to actually making a system that enhances the h aspects of a game? I have no idea. I don't have any experience in making any kind of game, nor am i knowledgeable about the theories of game design or the psychology of gamers.
But if you can't make a system that enhances your games primary draw, then at the very least it shouldn't interfere with it. Hence the struggle system that so many use. It's not the best thing they could use, but it's a low-effort solution that doesn't harm the game, and being low effort it let's the developer focus their attentions to where they CAN measurably improve the game.
Edit: Actually, I just thought of a good example of a struggle system that would, by Kyrieru's definition, add to the hentai aspects rather than detract:
Kunoichi Botan, and specifically the half-oni guards that are the standard h-enemy of the game.
The struggle system for this enemy is interesting because it isn't just a matter of mashing the escape option. Instead, the player has a series of options, one of which is an attack option that will instantly kill the enemy and end the battle.
But only if it succeeds.
The gameplay of this encounter is all about managing three stats: escape chance, lust, and the enemy's orgasm meter. Escape chance starts low, and you only get one shot; fail and the enemy will kill you. to avoid this, you have to use the other options, which let the enemy molest you, or intensify the severity of the h-encounter, going from groping the breasts through intercrural all the way to penetrative sex. The more severe the sex action, the faster your escape chance rises, but the faster your respective lust bars rise too, providing a balance of risk and reward.
If you let your own lust fill up, Ajisai will cum, and doing so too many times will cause her to give in, ceasing all resistance and preventing the use of your surprise attack. If you let the enemy cum, they will creampie Ajisai, which due to specifics of the story that I'll not go into leads to a game over. This provides a number of possible outcomes beyond the simplistic sex/no sex that button mashing gives you: you could die by attacking too early and fluffing your attack roll, cum too many times and give in to your own lust, stall too long and let the enemy finish inside, or succeed and strike down the enemy in their moment of distraction.
I really enjoyed this mechanic, and despite the game having a galley I much prefer to reload one of my saves and revisit the battles when going back to this game, as they're fun and engaging. There's also a sort of meta-game for those who are playing the battles as part of the game, rather than in the gallery: You don't want Ajisai to die and set you back, but you also want to see the hentai, so how far can you push the severity of the h-battle before you take more lust than acceptable or risk losing? The game even rewards this, because there's a point roughly halfway through the enemy's orgasm meter where the enemy will try to initiate penetration. You have the options to allow it (bad, because counterattacking during penetrative sex is harder), try to avoid it, or counter attack while he tries to insert. Counter attacking during this action gives a bonus to your chance of killing the enemy, rewarding this sort of playstyle.
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Tenma
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I'd just like to say with Botan I largely missed the H-aspect because I'd just focused on clearing the game. Walking up behind enemies and instantly finishing them or tricking their pathfinding. There was the one forced at the beginning but outside of that... The game's struggle system was large comparable to this one in terms of H-content. I couldn't really be forced to do anything with that system, as I largely enjoyed just progressing through the game. I'd also like to ask how this applies to Hasami.
I can't a turn based minigame being inserted into the game at this point in development, nor can I see how that would improve this game.
I can't a turn based minigame being inserted into the game at this point in development, nor can I see how that would improve this game.
WellIGuess
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Well, I like the artwork so far, but for the time being "tight controls" isn't even a hyperbole, it's an outright lie. I'm cutting them some slack as it's their first foray into action games and I know from experience Unity can be an absolute bitch when it comes to platformers, but still, right now the controls are ranging from "stiff but workable" (first level) to "almost downright unplayable" (second level).
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myspace121
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dumbest ? i just dont like when ppl have 0 skill but criticize like an actual pro.
WellIGuess
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One does not need to be a chef to recognise burnt food. Chew on that for a bit.
climhazzard
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Personally I don't mind button mashing as the struggle system, since I can do it with one hand free, but I hate it when it's not really a struggle, which is like 90% of games that use button mashing, if it's going to be so easy to escape there might as well just be a menu choice that comes up when you get caught asking if you want to get raped or not, which is dumb. To me if it's not a struggle then it's essentially the same as the character choosing whether or not they want to get raped by the enemies, and for me that makes it hard to get into, because it wouldn't make sense for the character to choose to get raped. For example, guilty hell, there's tons of superb animations, but the only time you'd see any of them if you assume the character doesn't want to get raped, is when you get defeated, because the struggle system is so easy.
On the flip side, I don't want to be nearly breaking my struggle buttons every time I get grabbed by something. My preferred system for button mashing is one where the difficulty increases the more you get caught, either by a pleasure meter or just a count of the times you get caught in a given period. Until, if you're playing badly, you eventually have no choice but to watch the animations, without necessarily being defeated first.
This game seems to be set up for that to be possible, though the pleasure meter doesn't affect escape difficulty, it could, and many of the debuffs do. The problem is that it's currently far to easy to prevent or get rid of the debuffs, and the pleasure meter only matters when it's nearly maxed which it never will be when you're playing properly. One would assume that since it's a demo that it's not representative of the final product though. The rpg was great, with lots of things you couldn't escape easily, so hopefully this game isn't to easy either.
P.S. QTE systems are terrible, they are way to distracting. Just throwing that out there because they always seem to come up when talking about button mashing.
On the flip side, I don't want to be nearly breaking my struggle buttons every time I get grabbed by something. My preferred system for button mashing is one where the difficulty increases the more you get caught, either by a pleasure meter or just a count of the times you get caught in a given period. Until, if you're playing badly, you eventually have no choice but to watch the animations, without necessarily being defeated first.
This game seems to be set up for that to be possible, though the pleasure meter doesn't affect escape difficulty, it could, and many of the debuffs do. The problem is that it's currently far to easy to prevent or get rid of the debuffs, and the pleasure meter only matters when it's nearly maxed which it never will be when you're playing properly. One would assume that since it's a demo that it's not representative of the final product though. The rpg was great, with lots of things you couldn't escape easily, so hopefully this game isn't to easy either.
P.S. QTE systems are terrible, they are way to distracting. Just throwing that out there because they always seem to come up when talking about button mashing.
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DarkMist67
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I loved kunoichi Botan, and I also enjoy MaiDenSnowEve and Princess Sacrifice for the H mechanics. While action/rpg games are definitely more difficult to play around, I only talk about the mechanics of this game so much because the developer intent seems to indicate that he wants it to be significant to the experience and part of gameplay rather than something tacked on or GoR only. If the game was GoR only, that is a fine mechanic which i don't have interest in (and thus wouldnt bother posting about), rather than currently trivialized mechanic that is intended to impact gameplay on the fly.
I really think something as simple as a moving slider where you need to stop it within a box is more than enough. QTE in this is too distracting, and it might fit the game better than a mash system anyway. Then, you make the slider bounce back and forth a bit faster the higher your lust, and have status effects and hypnosis mess with the visual presentation of the bar (which he already has effects for). Then, status effects make it harder to stop at the right spot, and lust ping pongs it a bit faster until orgasm, both increase difficulty, but not to the point of pure impossibility, and is a one handed, easy to focus on mechanic which allows players to come back a bit after orgasms to escape easier again temporarily.
I really think something as simple as a moving slider where you need to stop it within a box is more than enough. QTE in this is too distracting, and it might fit the game better than a mash system anyway. Then, you make the slider bounce back and forth a bit faster the higher your lust, and have status effects and hypnosis mess with the visual presentation of the bar (which he already has effects for). Then, status effects make it harder to stop at the right spot, and lust ping pongs it a bit faster until orgasm, both increase difficulty, but not to the point of pure impossibility, and is a one handed, easy to focus on mechanic which allows players to come back a bit after orgasms to escape easier again temporarily.
Tenma
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To give my idea for a solution for action based escaped systems, I'd always thought that QTE hybrid system would work best. It'd be a two part system with the second parts the difficulty determined by couple factors, if possible a difficulty setting at the start of the game, and the opponent you're struggling against. The first part you'd struggle out with button mashing the second part would be a QTE. For a boss it'd be a sequence of buttons, for a generic enemy it'd be single button or a couple if a higher difficulty is chosen. This could be modified by status and other modifiers. Obscuring the QTE partially making the button mash sequence more difficult, it'd give the enemies a chance though to get the lust meter up a bit.
Finally it doesn't be just that. Certain opponents could bring a different struggle mechanic like the one mentioned above. Maybe robotic enemies? Finally such a system allow the games to be mixed in a sequence to keep the player on their toes. If you fail struggle, you aren't forced to watch you either go back to the first stage if it's completed or your character takes a bunch of lust.
(Koma)
I'd even suggest we use the Warioware method. For the final boss if they get in their death grapple, you need first complete a round of Simon Says. If you fail in this stage you're forced to watch the boss drain your health. Next comes a pipe game, if fail this you go back to Simon Says though it's more difficult, faster and longer. Then you play wack-a-mole with tentacles, depending on your corruption the tentacles may grab your weapon until you complete one of the aforementioned struggle mechanics which are modified by your status as usual. If you fail that you go back to the pipe minigame. Which now has tentacles randomly switching pipes. Finally in the last stage representing the character subconscious stage, you go though dark corridors and listen to sound cues to determine if it's right route. If you're character's alright then silence is the route to take. Then moans at somewhat corrupted, and finally squelching at the highest levels of corruption. Then you're finally freed from the final bosses grasp.
Finally it doesn't be just that. Certain opponents could bring a different struggle mechanic like the one mentioned above. Maybe robotic enemies? Finally such a system allow the games to be mixed in a sequence to keep the player on their toes. If you fail struggle, you aren't forced to watch you either go back to the first stage if it's completed or your character takes a bunch of lust.
(Koma)
I'd even suggest we use the Warioware method. For the final boss if they get in their death grapple, you need first complete a round of Simon Says. If you fail in this stage you're forced to watch the boss drain your health. Next comes a pipe game, if fail this you go back to Simon Says though it's more difficult, faster and longer. Then you play wack-a-mole with tentacles, depending on your corruption the tentacles may grab your weapon until you complete one of the aforementioned struggle mechanics which are modified by your status as usual. If you fail that you go back to the pipe minigame. Which now has tentacles randomly switching pipes. Finally in the last stage representing the character subconscious stage, you go though dark corridors and listen to sound cues to determine if it's right route. If you're character's alright then silence is the route to take. Then moans at somewhat corrupted, and finally squelching at the highest levels of corruption. Then you're finally freed from the final bosses grasp.