Opinion on GoR

[MrMe]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I LOVE CR. I mean, I really LOVE it. There's something about knowing that the one place you shouldn't feel safe, combat, is one of the places the PC definitely isn't safe. In games where enemies don't have CR, it just feels like you're playing a regular RPG that threw H-Scenes in there for whatever reason. With CR in the world, it really feels like everything wants to fuck the heroine/hero.

Also, people want a self-strip/self-defeat option because it's easy to assume that an H-Game will have GoR, so you want to assure you can at least get to it a helluva lot easier than spamming fucking Guard. (OH MY GOD, FUCK GUARD, HONESTLY, I BARELY USE IT IN NON-H RPG'S)

Take Violated Heroine as an example, one of my favorite things to do is make Nanaka get groped and raped by the monsters over and over, because it really sets the tone that she's going to be a Violated Heroine. (I'm clever, I know.) If the game had nothing of the sort, it does have a lot of scenes outside of the animations and pose art specifically for that, but it adds something to the overall world that's just more than, "Oh noes, I lost, totally not on purpose, whatever will you do to me that won't matter as soon as I load a save?"

At the end of the day, this is all opinions. I'm really glad this thread blew up so much though. This is fun.

Yeah but 99.9% of games that feature combat rape do it horribly and hamfistedly - all they ever do is make an enemy attack a special move with a cut in that just so happens to be a rape move.

Or the conditions are limited so that you have to cheese it to get the combat rape (looking at you violated heroine, with your rape only ever happening if the heroine is naked)


The only game I've seen with a good implementation of combat rape is Fallen Empire, where the enemies can disarm the heroine and then you've got to spend a lot of action points to get your weapon back (an attempt which might fail) or you face getting grappled, molested, stripped, and raped.

 

[TitanAnteus]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I think it goes something like:
combat rape = Combat with possibility or rape, useually seen in action games. sidescroller for example.

Battlefuck = The battle is the sex. i think mostly limited to RPG games.


GAME OVER.
By most games termes this is not meant to be a target, forcing yourself to fail to gain the porn (the other part of a porn game) is a sacrafice in itself.
You secrafice the game to get the porn.
Any gamer knows the a game over is a bad thing, forcing people to deliberatly fail to get the porn is just wrong/backwards on a games front.


Care to explain this sentance?

I was mentioning GOR in comparison to your Rape On Lose thing. If you Game Over you still have checkpoints. How is it any different than Rape On Lose with extra dressing on the "Continue" button?

Also, I don't think you're coming at it with the right mindset. You lose to see the H so you're fighting your libido at the same time as progressing to the game. Adds extra challenge to the game imo, thinking you could take a few hits here and there or fall to this monster once. Progress does grant you more H. More opportunity for H anyway. You want to progress because you want to see more enemies.

Also most games give you the whole gallery upon completion anyway. Having the H play out when you're downed or lose also removes a bit of the salt from the loss as well. You know how annoyingly hard Ghosts'N'Ghouls was? With H whenever you lose each try doesn't feel as bad.

 

[LustFire]

Re: Opinion on GoR

The only game I've seen with a good implementation of combat rape is Fallen Empire, where the enemies can disarm the heroine and then you've got to spend a lot of action points to get your weapon back (an attempt which might fail) or you face getting grappled, molested, stripped, and raped.

I tried that one, but the system was complicated for my taste. Plus, the effort needed in the gameplay distracted from the reward of seeing the H in action (which became repetitive due to not enough visual content). Again, as I implied before, it still doesn't address the "progression and flow" of playing an H-game.

 

[Jesus]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I don't get the confusion on terminology, I use combat rape and battlefuck interchangably, I don't see any distinction between the two.

My point is that hentai being integrated into battles (RPG) / combat (ACT) is always better than limiting it just to losing. In my favorite H-games, the combat/battles revolve around the many enemies using sexual attacks in addition to physical/magic attacks and applying status effects to ultimately subdue take advantage of them, and that can involve GoR depending on the dev's capacity for creating further content

Regarding the art workload, honestly I don't think it's that much more effort. Most I've seen that do it well use a few universal sprites/poses that the H-attacks for each enemy are built around. This is one advantage of using 3d models to create such sprites, as the model only has to be posed rather than a new image drawn from the ground up, it allows unique poses per- enemy attack, like in MaTM. It's a route I'm honestly surprised more developers of games in a similar vein haven't taken with access to things like DAZ3D.

Anyway, the more intertwined in combat the rape is, the better, instead of the game state either being one or the other - GoR is that extreme. You're either playing, or you've lost and are viewing the GoR scene. On the other end of the spectrum, there's still interactivity ie gameplay and challenge involved in the sex scenes themselves, like with Paperheads and DirtyC101's Furry Fury (Which is still going, albeit at a snail's pace).

But as I said in another thread, a really underexplored genre in adult games is turn-based tactics with metagame, eg XCOM. In addition to removing the possibility of GoR (Since losing a mission doesn't mean losing the game), these solve the duality of escaping a H-grab ASAP so as to not lose or wanting to enjoy it at the expense of your ability to complete the level, since when they do happen you can watch that (stage of the) animation until the end of the turn at the very least, which is an indefinite period of time.
There's that one dungeon crawler game where you have two girls, one with pink hair and the other blue, and if you fail a mission one of them can get captured - if you spend long enough between missions you get to see the captured character subject to "interrogation", and this idea would fit very well in such a game. The hamstring to that though is having diversity in the girls' looks if it's something like XCOM where the characters are randomly generated. Hair/eye/skin/face type/color are one thing, but it gets complicated if factoring breast size/shape, height differences etc. whether 2D or 3D. The alternative is original art for each girl which doubtlessly means a smaller cast and no customisation, and a lot of work.

Anyway I will say, some games can get away with GoR because of sheer quality. Iris Action springs to mind, it also has clothing destruction which will affect most scenes.

 

[Meta1]

Re: Opinion on GoR

It honestly varies from game to game, but 90% solid hate GoR and want to throat punch for it being there.

My view, as a gamer, my goal should be to get through the game in the most efficient and best way possible. Having to purposely die to enemies for a scene is against that very nature as a gamer.

 

[Jesus]

Re: Opinion on GoR

It honestly varies from game to game, but 90% solid hate GoR and want to throat punch for it being there.

My view, as a gamer, my goal should be to get through the game in the most efficient and best way possible. Having to purposely die to enemies for a scene is against that very nature as a gamer.

Games can fail in other ways, being so easy you have to be shit or intentionally lose to see BF/CR scenes

 

[Kyrieru]

Re: Opinion on GoR

There's an element of role-playing to rape-themed games that make it a bit different, as "play" doesn't always mean following the rules, or the game's narrative. Even if you give the player a "present yourself" button, they may prefer watch the character get knocked down instead. Whether you can suspend your disbelief enough to still feel like the context is different is down to you.

If a dev doesn't like GoR, they wont do it, and if they do, then they should be figuring out how to do it well. I don't think it's worth arguing over whether it's good or bad. Very few game mechanics are bad by themselves.

 

[Jesus]

Re: Opinion on GoR

There's an element of role-playing to rape-themed games that make it a bit different, as "play" doesn't always mean following the rules, or the game's narrative. Even if you give the player a "present yourself" button, they may prefer watch the character get knocked down instead. Whether you can suspend your disbelief enough to still feel like the context is different is down to you.

This very much.

I mentioned DirtyC101's Furry Fury, and as dated as the game is it honestly has one of the best grappling systems which hasn't been replicated anywhere else. A grapple can be triggered by both the enemies and the PC. You have a slider going between favouring the PC and the enemy - As it gets closer to the left (player) side, it becomes a consensual/domme animation, and vice-versa as it slides towards the enemy. You bring it further to your side by beating a QTE combo, and away if you fail it, even further if you hit the wrong button. As the scene goes on, either the PC, the enemy or both are losing health, but the PC also has an armor save, triggering once it reaches the final stage of the enemy's side and ending the scene unless stripped.

 

[Deadwings]

Re: Opinion on GoR

Also, I don't think you're coming at it with the right mindset. You lose to see the H so you're fighting your libido at the same time as progressing to the game. Adds extra challenge to the game imo, thinking you could take a few hits here and there or fall to this monster once. Progress does grant you more H. More opportunity for H anyway. You want to progress because you want to see more enemies.

I don't think we can talk about any "right" mindset to play these sort of games. Any game with a story automatically invites you to immerse in it and to sympathize with the protagonist, especially RPGs; they are called role playing games for a reason. You, however, seem to view the game only as an elaborate H-scene collector, and the protagonist only as a vehicle through which you look for said scenes. That's... not exactly a common mindset when playing games. It might be easier for you to just watch a porn video.

Personally, I prefer it when the porn is included as part of the story. But I developed an aversion to GoR when I realized that the vast majority of those games tend to kill the story in favor of dubiously enjoyable porn and lock it behind even less enjoyable requirements. Namely, losing. And if the player has developed even the most minimal bond with the protagonist, then that loss forms a connection between the porn and failure. Not the character's failure, your failure. That's annoying; I don't like the feeling of failure.

 

[azurezero]

Re: Opinion on GoR

this is tangental but, for my platformer i was considering only resetting health when the player loses to their health being depleted, with instant ones such as pits not resetting them...

i thought this would be good since thered be an equal chance of seeing any of the possible game overs...

but i figured people would see this as a bug if i did it, so instead i feel like im being forced to make my game more difficult so the non instant options get a chance...

what do you guys think?

 

[MrMe]

Re: Opinion on GoR

But as I said in another thread, a really underexplored genre in adult games is turn-based tactics with metagame, eg XCOM. In addition to removing the possibility of GoR (Since losing a mission doesn't mean losing the game), these solve the duality of escaping a H-grab ASAP so as to not lose or wanting to enjoy it at the expense of your ability to complete the level, since when they do happen you can watch that (stage of the) animation until the end of the turn at the very least, which is an indefinite period of time.
There's that one dungeon crawler game where you have two girls, one with pink hair and the other blue, and if you fail a mission one of them can get captured - if you spend long enough between missions you get to see the captured character subject to "interrogation", and this idea would fit very well in such a game. The hamstring to that though is having diversity in the girls' looks if it's something like XCOM where the characters are randomly generated. Hair/eye/skin/face type/color are one thing, but it gets complicated if factoring breast size/shape, height differences etc. whether 2D or 3D. The alternative is original art for each girl which doubtlessly means a smaller cast and no customisation, and a lot of work.

Ah yes, a hentai x-com.
A game I've wanted to see for ages.

Pretty Solider Wars is the closest thing to it (though apparently it was closer to Final Fantasy Tactics which I never played), the H scenes were you rescuing girls who were already captured and banging your squad-waifus between missions.
But didn't have any scenes of your squad getting fucked by tentacle demons if they got knocked down.

 

[kiko]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I personally like it, but only if a game is actually decent enough to play, for example Iris Action, Kurovadis, Eroico, LAB etc. If the game isn't that good or really, really bad (Like most DLSite cashgrabs) why should people bother to play it only to see the sexual content? Kind of pointless really, might as well go to a porn site and find some decent hentai. If I don't enjoy the game I can't really be bothered to suffer through obsolete gameplay just to see a mediocre GOR scene.

 

[Jesus]

Re: Opinion on GoR

Ah yes, a hentai x-com.
A game I've wanted to see for ages.

Pretty Solider Wars is the closest thing to it (though apparently it was closer to Final Fantasy Tactics which I never played), the H scenes were you rescuing girls who were already captured and banging your squad-waifus between missions.
But didn't have any scenes of your squad getting fucked by tentacle demons if they got knocked down.

How I never heard of this is beyond me, but it looks like they really missed an opportunity for some good tentacle action in favor of mostly vanilla bullshit. At least the game looks fun

 

[Rayearth]

Re: Opinion on GoR

This is one of the most underexploited possibilities. Many of those games though, will just have you continue from the starting town or the start of the level. The best way though is one I've only seen two games do - Wolfenstahl's Paperheads and the demo of Ghost Hunter Vena (In which it's getting removed for the full game); When you lose, the MC is moved to a separate part of the level, reserved for these loss scenarios, bound in some way, and in PH's case, you have to complete a struggle minigame before an enemy returns to rape the MC again, after which you get GOR too. It's the best of all worlds; Combat sex that's lengthy and survivable enough not to put you at huge risk of loss immediately afterwards, maintaining continuity through avoiding hard resets if not, and GOR on absolute failure. Honestly any aspiring adult game dev, especially for action/adventure, should look to Paperheads as an archetype because of the things it does so well in this regard.

Is there a proper name for this kind of mechanic? When I try to describe this mechanic to others, I sometimes call it "capture/escape" or something. I'll also bring up the game Unholy Jail for also having this gameplay element.

Also, Dungeons and Prisoners, while probably being generally CR, has this scene in the "bandit haven" in which the player character can get defeated and captured. The "escape", though, is especially interesting since it's not a simple minigame like PH or UJ. Rather, it's still the same combat and movement system in place, but the character has a bunch of bondage-themed statuses applied on her to make fighting much more difficult, but still possible.

I truly believe that this kind of mechanic is the gold standard that others developers should take note of. Too bad DnP itself will probably never see actual release, even four years (!) after the demo came out with this kind of gameplay...

 

[Feckless]

Re: Opinion on GoR

How I never heard of this is beyond me, but it looks like they really missed an opportunity for some good tentacle action in favor of mostly vanilla bullshit. At least the game looks fun

Well keep in mind that game came from an era when tastes leaned more towards that style of erotica and a game had to have mainstream appeal (well, you know what I mean) to have any success, distribution channels being what they were.

And it's not a bad game, but I wouldn't call it fun after the first few hours. A lot of it is just funnelling the dumb AI through narrow corridors and blasting them in the face. Turns took forever to resolve because of the sheer number of enemies on each map, IIRC.

I remember putting hours into that game and was so disappointed when I realized what the h content was going to be.

 

[Nightverge]

Re: Opinion on GoR

No sense or reality to be made here, just my opinion.

I like GoR. I WANT GoR, and at the same time, I hate it. The problem is, it's too easy. First enemy in the game is a SLIME!? Easy, but better lose because of the sexy action guaranteed to happen!

I like porn. I like games. I LOVE when the two are combined. If losing to each enemy gets me a different reward, I will do it. That said, it needs to happen in a way that makes sense, and is convenient. I'm not willing to play a level 20 times to get 20 variations of the same CG. Hell, I usually don't play games with over 60 CG, because odds are it's the same picture, slightly different, 30 times. I WILL play a game 20 times if each time gives me a chance at a quality, animated event that only unlocks when certain conditions are met. I will explore, experiment, and expire as many times as necessary for good porn. It's like finding the skulls in Halo; you're gonna play a lot, and screw some folks over, to get them. Problem is, how often do we find that? A skull offers replay value, new porn offers... re-fap value?! If it's good, anyway.

My point is that the content needs to EARN it. If I'm going to play a game with the intent of losing, I'd damn well better be winning, if you catch my drift.

 

[Drix]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I hate losing h-scenes when I'm winning.

I hate constantly questioning myself in new games if the random mob has a h-scene or not. Or worst case multiple h-scenes when repeating.

 

[Thronico]

Re: Opinion on GoR

I hate losing h-scenes when I'm winning.

I hate constantly questioning myself in new games if the random mob has a h-scene or not. Or worst case multiple h-scenes when repeating.

I think that's one of my biggest gripes with GoR gameplay-wise, besides the counter-intuitiveness it has in some games. Forgetting to die to an enemy, or not being able to remember if you already did, so now you have to backtrack, but now you can't die to it because you're a god. Games with suicide buttons remedy this, but still.

It just doesn't feel good to remember you didn't die to an enemy and that's a BAD thing lmao. "I made it through the area without dying and I've got some good loot, so why do I feel like I've lost?" etc...

I think the general consensus, like most things, is that GoR to serve a purpose is often acceptable due to the nature of the scene and character. GoR offset by good Event-H Scenes outside of battle also help you build the world. GoR is best used in cases where, without losing a fight, the PC definitely wouldn't get raped in any other scenario unless the story forced it.

GoR is also good in games where people want to do virgin runs, but also want some H, so being able to load the save after losing and getting some sweet H feels, better than say, loading a save after triggering some event just for H despite doing a virgin run.

Either way, GoR can easily be tedious and lazy, but it can also be an integral part of a game, and some focus solely on this as their delivery method for H-Scenes, and there are ways to do it well.

Personally, I think it takes way more effort for GoR to be implemented in a positive way, than it does for it to be implemented poorly, and it's a dangerous thing because it can hurt a game. Of course, that's any feature that a game has.


Also, as a heads-up for what I saw earlier in the thread,

Combat-Rape is enemies performing actions on the PC that they "don't" want to happen. (The Weakest Go to the Wall, MaidenSnow Eve, Prison of Richelle,
Princess Sacrifice, etc...)

Battle Fuck is using only sexual skills to kill or disable an enemy and they in turn using it on you. No actual combat. (Erotical Night, ROBF, etc...)

 

[OnyxShadow]

Re: Opinion on GoR

Most of the time I'm fine with it. It does sometimes soften the blow of losing. However, if there is a ton of content locked behind it, and losing causes you to lose A LOT of progress, then I pretty much hate it.

 

[LanceRPG]

Re: Opinion on GoR

That's a very deep and interesting topic about game design.
Especially in some act games, If you wanna see the Hscene,
you have to lose, which is obviously opposite of the gaming procedure.

That's because the enemies comes always as simply the things to
damage the character controlled by the player. They do nothing good
to the heroine.

Do you remember there is one action game named, "Bitch Bxorcist Rio"
It has 2 ways to show the Hscene,
(1) damaged by enemy
(2) do H things with the enemy you killed to gain HP.
You can just go pass the enemy
you killed without doing nothing as well. So that is a creative design in someway. I think the situation you mentioned can be solved by such kind
of game design, and more better design will come in the future.

From a RPG game developer ........By the way My game on Dlsite.
http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?p=959208#post959208
My thread has dropped to page 6 or maybe 8 , not many people see it .you could visit my thread if it is convenient to you。