Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
You all are missing the point. (From what I've read of this thread so far.)
The president and everyone in the counter-terrorism biz are not denying that there are many other, more dangerous people still out there. The point was that this was a morale-boosting, long overdue accomplishment that needed to happen. It's a rallying point and a bit of good news in a world of fear-mongering media outlets that focus on the negatives.
No one's saying mission accomplished. But justice has been done against one evil man who was a figurehead for an fucking evil group of people.
And nothing about how this announcement was made will alter those psychopath extremists' views on Bin Laden's 'martyr' status. If the guy died from a rupturing bowel movement they'd find a way to look at him as a martyr. And I don't really think they could hate america or the rest of the free world more than they already do, so I disagree with the notion that this was handled poorly.
You all are missing the point. (From what I've read of this thread so far.)
The president and everyone in the counter-terrorism biz are not denying that there are many other, more dangerous people still out there. The point was that this was a morale-boosting, long overdue accomplishment that needed to happen. It's a rallying point and a bit of good news in a world of fear-mongering media outlets that focus on the negatives.
No one's saying mission accomplished. But justice has been done against one evil man who was a figurehead for an fucking evil group of people.
And nothing about how this announcement was made will alter those psychopath extremists' views on Bin Laden's 'martyr' status. If the guy died from a rupturing bowel movement they'd find a way to look at him as a martyr. And I don't really think they could hate america or the rest of the free world more than they already do, so I disagree with the notion that this was handled poorly.
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Exofluke
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
and my point was that it's hardly justice at all...
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
It is justice. There's much more to dispense, and certainly other terrorist leaders who are more dangerous in the here and now that it would behoove us to kill. But it's still justice. Better he be killed by us than be allowed to live another day.
Will his death stop other terrorist attacks? No. The death of any single man won't stop that. It's the nature of terrorism. But it will provide a small bit of closure for those who lost family and friends due to 9/11. And it will give US citizens some measure of confidence that our military intellgence - if properly prioritized, can find who it's looking for. I agree that this is a huge slap in the face to the Bush era. Obviously there were some moronic decisions made in those years. This was a small, but notable correction to the egregious oversight of that time.
It is justice. There's much more to dispense, and certainly other terrorist leaders who are more dangerous in the here and now that it would behoove us to kill. But it's still justice. Better he be killed by us than be allowed to live another day.
Will his death stop other terrorist attacks? No. The death of any single man won't stop that. It's the nature of terrorism. But it will provide a small bit of closure for those who lost family and friends due to 9/11. And it will give US citizens some measure of confidence that our military intellgence - if properly prioritized, can find who it's looking for. I agree that this is a huge slap in the face to the Bush era. Obviously there were some moronic decisions made in those years. This was a small, but notable correction to the egregious oversight of that time.
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Exofluke
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
I may not be able to deny that it's justice altogether, but I still think it's low on the scale of things.
To me, good justice, strong justice is creating change that not only stops the terrible action that was committed, but also affects the ability to commit that action again. This goes for anyone, not just the original criminal.
Of course this sounds like a long shot in our world today, but that's why justice done in our world is so poor. We can kill thousands of murders and rapists, but it won't stop anything.
I'll tell ya right now, you wanna stop this bullshit on a true scale, then push for superior education, financial equality and build a system that matures this selfishness nature or ours.
This fantasized game of cops and robbers is toying with our intellect as is.
I may not be able to deny that it's justice altogether, but I still think it's low on the scale of things.
To me, good justice, strong justice is creating change that not only stops the terrible action that was committed, but also affects the ability to commit that action again. This goes for anyone, not just the original criminal.
Of course this sounds like a long shot in our world today, but that's why justice done in our world is so poor. We can kill thousands of murders and rapists, but it won't stop anything.
I'll tell ya right now, you wanna stop this bullshit on a true scale, then push for superior education, financial equality and build a system that matures this selfishness nature or ours.
This fantasized game of cops and robbers is toying with our intellect as is.
Luppikun
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
Ask this guy about Justice.
But seriously, I get it, he's a guy we've been blaming for a terrorist attack for almost 10 years. Now he's dead (Supposedly). But he is ONE MAN. Didn't they actually admit he WASN'T THE MAIN GUY BEHIND IT?!? America has always had an enemy. It gives us something to aim for. To strive to accomplish. Osama's death will be celebrated, but I would bet anything within ONE YEAR, we will have a new enemy. Maybe it'll be another one we funded...
Ask this guy about Justice.
But seriously, I get it, he's a guy we've been blaming for a terrorist attack for almost 10 years. Now he's dead (Supposedly). But he is ONE MAN. Didn't they actually admit he WASN'T THE MAIN GUY BEHIND IT?!? America has always had an enemy. It gives us something to aim for. To strive to accomplish. Osama's death will be celebrated, but I would bet anything within ONE YEAR, we will have a new enemy. Maybe it'll be another one we funded...
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Incubus
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
It's already been covered, for which I am glad, but my major concern is a large number of people thinking that this is it.
Last I checked, Afghanistan was in some serious shit. The last thing we need is even more pressure to pull out, because the job's supposedly been done. I know most of my fellow Australians are still pissy about being there period, considering we're basically only involved because of a military treaty with the US. (You're welcome, by the way)
I'm worried this is going to cause more trouble than its worth. Congratulations, you've killed a figurehead.
It's already been covered, for which I am glad, but my major concern is a large number of people thinking that this is it.
Last I checked, Afghanistan was in some serious shit. The last thing we need is even more pressure to pull out, because the job's supposedly been done. I know most of my fellow Australians are still pissy about being there period, considering we're basically only involved because of a military treaty with the US. (You're welcome, by the way)
I'm worried this is going to cause more trouble than its worth. Congratulations, you've killed a figurehead.
UrbanKirasagi
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
4chan has got "AMERICA FUCK YEAH" playing on it's pages. Good for a lol.
Does his death matter? Yes. Does it matter all that much? Not really. But it will demoralize a substantial number of the foot-soldier level jihadists, and it does mean a small morale boost. I'm more concerned over what's going to happen between us and Pakistan now - we stepped all over their face to do this, and then didn't tell them until after it was done. Which I have no problem with, but they might. Populated area and all.
4chan has got "AMERICA FUCK YEAH" playing on it's pages. Good for a lol.
Does his death matter? Yes. Does it matter all that much? Not really. But it will demoralize a substantial number of the foot-soldier level jihadists, and it does mean a small morale boost. I'm more concerned over what's going to happen between us and Pakistan now - we stepped all over their face to do this, and then didn't tell them until after it was done. Which I have no problem with, but they might. Populated area and all.
Ringlonn
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
...mayby some of those people he sent to blow themselves up....oh but doesn't their holy book say that suicide is a sure way to damnation?
But in all honesty it matters not if his followers call him a martyr or not,this is a morale boost for the U.S.A and many others and a big morale loss to Osama's supporters.
My guess is those are all males
...mayby some of those people he sent to blow themselves up....oh but doesn't their holy book say that suicide is a sure way to damnation?But in all honesty it matters not if his followers call him a martyr or not,this is a morale boost for the U.S.A and many others and a big morale loss to Osama's supporters.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
As far as I know, the secret service of Pakistan was part of the operation. Also, am I the only one that doesn't believe Obama when he said they were trying to arrest him? You don't accidentally put a bullet into somebody's head.
Incubus
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
I just overheard a discussion about this recently. Frankly I'm of the opinion that he took up arms and opened fire. Oddly enough, you usually don't end up in custody when you start shooting at people.
UrbanKirasagi
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
Yes, because Osama Bin Laden and his men would neeeeeever try to resist arrest when they could just start opening fire.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
Oh, I don't doubt they were resisting. Just - a bullet to the head is pretty specific. Riddled with holes, sure. But this just screams execution. Something tells me the Americans were never trying to arrest him.
Oh, I don't doubt they were resisting. Just - a bullet to the head is pretty specific. Riddled with holes, sure. But this just screams execution. Something tells me the Americans were never trying to arrest him.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden: Dead At Last
Well, I wasn't there to see it. Or was I?
They specifically said in the news that he was killed by a shot to the head. Whether the S.E.A.L. yelled "BOOM HEADSHOT" remains unknown.
Well, I wasn't there to see it. Or was I?
They specifically said in the news that he was killed by a shot to the head. Whether the S.E.A.L. yelled "BOOM HEADSHOT" remains unknown.