Discussion Sex MUGEN 2.0 General Discussion Thread

[NSR]

MFCM is the last person you should be proud of in terms of his patreon honestly. He makes patreon only polls that he then proceeds to ignore because he doesn't like the outcome, ignores criticism entirely and takes months and years to release anything workable that is just a copy of the same old thing that was released last time. With all due respect, I rather take experimental, new and sometimes buggy features than a million copies of the same thing disguised under a different skin. In fact, MFCM decided to remove features that were once a great asset to their characters (anyone remember the team attack move that some characters had?).
In the end though I know that this is merely my opinion on things and you are free to have your own, of course.

I never said I was proud of him?

The standard of " pause if its not ready " is something only he does though for some reason. That much cant be taken away from him.

I'd rather not get charged/wait for a complete product as opposed to get something rushed out to meet the end of a month deadline.

See - Gettag has had hella backlogs before. Its unrealistic to expect it to be chipped at in these cases, why not pause and go from there?

Edit: Honestly, that feels like just general patreon standard practice. In by trying to force something out every month(and charging every month) honestly led to probably most of what happened these past few pages. If the man takes his time to do stuff, and is alloted that time since theres no "i gotta since i kept it active" constraint I think everyone would be happier with the result.

It would also dispel the concern others have here about cashgrab approach.

 

[Shana Fenix]

I never said I was proud of him?

The standard of " pause if its not ready " is something only he does though for some reason. That much cant be taken away from him.

I'd rather not get charged/wait for a complete product as opposed to get something rushed out to meet the end of a month deadline.

See - Gettag has had hella backlogs before. Its unrealistic to expect it to be chipped at in these cases, why not pause and go from there?

Edit: Honestly, that feels like just general patreon standard practice. In by trying to force something out every month(and charging every month) honestly led to probably most of what happened these past few pages. If the man takes his time to do stuff, and is alloted that time since theres no "i gotta since i kept it active" constraint I think everyone would be happier with the result.

It would also dispel the concern others have here about cashgrab approach.

Apologies, I misinterpreted the tone of the text. And yes, that much I'll give him.
I feel it's less the case that he's rushing out releases and more like things being a work in progress. We're just being part of said progress. Think of like, some hentai games on patreon where you get the playable demos for paying. I feel it's very similar to that. But yes, I am well aware that not everyone's a fan of that kind of thing.

 

[nosferatus]

about discord it is true it is a dead zone only mugen bara servers that of furrys factory have a community that cares more about bringing free quality content than worrying about wanting to profit from the content

 

[Ericridge]

MFCM is the last person you should be proud of in terms of his patreon honestly. He makes patreon only polls that he then proceeds to ignore because he doesn't like the outcome, ignores criticism entirely and takes months and years to release anything workable that is just a copy of the same old thing that was released last time. With all due respect, I rather take experimental, new and sometimes buggy features than a million copies of the same thing disguised under a different skin. In fact, MFCM decided to remove features that were once a great asset to their characters (anyone remember the team attack move that some characters had?).
In the end though I know that this is merely my opinion on things and you are free to have your own, of course.

His characters had team attacks?

I was only aware of minotaur aggressors that had double team attacks. This is new to me o.o

 

[Shana Fenix]

His characters had team attacks?

I was only aware of minotaur aggressors that had double team attacks. This is new to me o.o

It was way.. way... waaay back. I am unsure what character it was on but it was like... the character getting grabbed by the agressor, fucks victim, calls over a friend after they're done, has the friend fuck the victim.. basically alternating. It's nothing groundbreaking but I thought it was a great idea regardless.

 

[Ericridge]

It was way.. way... waaay back. I am unsure what character it was on but it was like... the character getting grabbed by the agressor, fucks victim, calls over a friend after they're done, has the friend fuck the victim.. basically alternating. It's nothing groundbreaking but I thought it was a great idea regardless.

I see.... thanks! Has anyone asked him to put the double team back in?

 

[Shana Fenix]

I see.... thanks! Has anyone asked him to put the double team back in?

I have, but fell on deaf ears. "Too much effort" was the response essentially.

 

[HangerDanger]

Ah yes. Because you are oh so apt at making anything yourself! Go on, show me your boundless talents that allow you to shit on the people that at least try to get something done instead of sitting here in this thread whining all day waiting to be spoonfed (right @HangerDanger ?). Also love that fresh, anonymous account you got there. Really brave of you to 'speak up' with your 'name all out in the open' :')
On sidenote, if it feels to you I was scolding children maybe it's because you're behaving like one. And if I was playing favorites you'd be noticing it, believe me.
Anyway - Gettag's discord is open to the public. You'd just have to go take the 2 seconds it takes to google his twitter to find it, but that's too much effort now isn't it? It's also not like he doesn't release his stuff to the general public either. It's just a later relese than for patreons which is... a fair deal imo. There's other people with patreons in the mugen scene I'd understand if you got on their case but gettag I do not.
I swear you guys are showing me exactly those traits that were the reason why I pulled Umbreon off the downloads. Like, I get it. No new, interesting, fancy stuff for a while. It's gotten kinda stale in the MUGEN community, I know. But it's like you start bashing at the next best target and cry for not getting a lollipop when you get too frustrated. People like you are the reason why there's less and less creators willing to work on MUGEN. Because the people that try, all they ever get is "why isn't this done yet" "why is so buggy" "why are they charging money for the work that I'm not willing to even touch". It gets tiring. Very tiring.

Wait, you actually think that i made an alternative account to bitch about you???

Eh, how 'bout no?

As i said before i have no idea who even is on discord as i DON'T freaking use it, and this is an actual first time i even heard of you being it's moderator...

Actually before this point i had much respect for you and and the way you do things, but now... not so much. I've been a member in good standing of this particular forum for a long time and i have actually tried helping people with various things as much as i could so living to see someone accuse me of making an alt account to harass them is, well... i don't really know how to react to this. Do i call you names or indirectly offend you like you did in my case or something else... i really don't know.

Seriously i never expected you of all people so stoop as low as this... I guess hating on people from MA for so long has made you into the very same thing you hated.

If you have issues about me "bashing" gettag, then than say it to my face, but i still think it was the right thing to do in a way (and learn to read because my complaints weren't about not being spoonfed as you've put it) but i don't see how that would be a reason for me to have it in for you in any way (i don't recall the two of us ever having any sort of problem with each other)...

Actually at this point i think i will just excuse myself from this place entirely... So yeah, best of wishes to all of you here...

 

[Ricky]

hmm might as well close this thread if it's just going to be arguments and yeah H-mugen is dead at this point not really interested in Bison uploads from Ryona

 

[Emerald_Gladiator]

Erg. As much as I love drama, I really don't wanna see this thread closed.
lol, H-mugen might be dead, but this place is one of the few forums that is still somewhat active in talking about it.
Can we please keep it civil?

 

[Oofer645]

Erg. As much as I love drama, I really don't wanna see this thread closed.
lol, H-mugen might be dead, but this place is one of the few forums that is still somewhat active in talking about it.
Can we please keep it civil?

I agree, closing this thread would leave H-mugen even more dead.

 

[Norwegian God Baldür]

Uhm, sorry for interrupting this Socrates vs Sophists conflict, but what programs do you recommend for drawing sprites? Also, where can I learn to code?

 

[Shana Fenix]

Wait, you actually think that i made an alternative account to bitch about you???

No, this is neither what I meant nor said. I have not had qualms about you before this myself but as far as this entire affair goes it seems our opinions on things go far apart.
(Though I do admit it was terribly formulated looking back at it.)

Uhm, sorry for interrupting this Socrates vs Sophists conflict, but what programs do you recommend for drawing sprites? Also, where can I learn to code?

I may not sprite myself but I know a lot of people that use aspesprite to make sprites, but there's also graphics gale for a free alternative. Some people supposedly also use photoshop but I do not recommend it. It's simply not made for this kind of thing and comparatively hard to use for it unless you're already comfortable with it.
As for learning to code - that's a good question. I personally learned most of what I know by studying existing characters, trying to make my own (non-hentai) edits way back in the day and looking up tutorials for the things I wanted to do. There's also a lot of posts on.. I think it was mugen fighters guild? that describe what the specific state controlers do.

 

[gettagmk3]

I never said I was proud of him?

The standard of " pause if its not ready " is something only he does though for some reason. That much cant be taken away from him.

I'd rather not get charged/wait for a complete product as opposed to get something rushed out to meet the end of a month deadline.

See - Gettag has had hella backlogs before. Its unrealistic to expect it to be chipped at in these cases, why not pause and go from there?

Edit: Honestly, that feels like just general patreon standard practice. In by trying to force something out every month(and charging every month) honestly led to probably most of what happened these past few pages. If the man takes his time to do stuff, and is alloted that time since theres no "i gotta since i kept it active" constraint I think everyone would be happier with the result.

It would also dispel the concern others have here about cashgrab approach.

I get that getting "in progress" stuff can't be very thrilling as opposed to a complete project, but..yeah, I think that a lot of people expect a steady flow of content instead of long gaps in between with patreons, and people pausing for one reason or the other are the exception and not the rule. This is just my single perspective mind you, but the feedback I received reflected this. Shana summed it up better than me; im more of an iterative type. Anyway, the backlog isn't that bad nowadays (or maybe it is? I've seen worse). Of course, there may be things that I should be working on that aren't on my list and have forgotten about

 

[Bobjdole]

Ah yes. Because you are oh so apt at making anything yourself! Go on, show me your boundless talents that allow you to shit on the people that at least try to get something done instead of sitting here in this thread whining all day waiting to be spoonfed (right @HangerDanger ?). Also love that fresh, anonymous account you got there. Really brave of you to 'speak up' with your 'name all out in the open' :')

No, this is neither what I meant nor said. I have not had qualms about you before this myself but as far as this entire affair goes it seems our opinions on things go far apart.

 

[NSR]

I get that getting "in progress" stuff can't be very thrilling as opposed to a complete project, but..yeah, I think that a lot of people expect a steady flow of content instead of long gaps in between with patreons, and people pausing for one reason or the other are the exception and not the rule. This is just my single perspective mind you, but the feedback I received reflected this. Shana summed it up better than me; im more of an iterative type. Anyway, the backlog isn't that bad nowadays (or maybe it is? I've seen worse). Of course, there may be things that I should be working on that aren't on my list and have forgotten about

I think that last bit kinda puts the ball back in the court of there probably is. I can't force you to take your time if you need it, but my perspective is more of - when you did, despite finals/school/etc on tumblr we got passionate work with less issues and got to see what was on your mind/whims.

Nor do I think people would riot/explode if you went "ya gimme extra time". This backlog is "ok" and has been worse. But it aint one that inspires confidence from me. All in all, on my end I can't force anything from you. Nor do I forsee changing approach, but I aired what I wanted and can still wish you luck. I hope thinys get better but hey.

edit: Also this is mainly speaking as someone who is part of patreons outside mugem community. I wouldnt say they're exceptions, they're rather common / its a common practice outside said circle.

 

[SpectatorX]

Mugen hentai gets dead when there are less people eager to join in creating anything and when it's also not as publicly easier accessible. When there's people who would rather wait for a creator to drop something vs learning how and creating their own content the ratio of anything new being born also drops. When you also put things behind a paywall, it makes people less eager to commit to it due to having to even pay a penny to either get or see it.

Personally, I dont think monetizing mugen preserves it. The older communities just had the passion of being able to make their dream fighting game and that's how it even thrived in the first place. Think back on the old days when mugen was popular on Youtube. When i did my edits or even my aggressor, I just wanted people to see my works or experience what i imagined for certain characters. This is why i never wanted to make a "patreon" or any other subscribe service for mere mugen edits. If you dont like how gettag's is doing his patreon now, you only have yourself to blame if you feel like a creator you've been supporting starts to get lazy. I can't say this for every creator on patreon, but from what i understand theirs lots of people who have used patreon who would develop that mindset if they had steady flow of cash coming in. And there's also lots of people who subscribed to people who have stole others art and still made a profit.

As for the other creators other than the one you guys are complaining about, we legit had people rally under someone like bison. As bad as that sounds, when non creators see someone who is willing to drop something for others periodically, they also feel there's no need for them to learn anything really. The main problem i see with mugen hentai today is that people are content with just a few people dropping anything. It's really not that hard to learn the coding, and even less hard to sprite. In fact if people wanted more characters edit, spriting is the easiest part and shouldnt be hard. I've used several programs: ms paint, graphics gale, photoshop, Gimp, clip studio, and even tried asesprite. Personally i use clip studio paint right now, it can literally do everything you need for spriting that the other programs use. But it's not like art programs are hard to get. Gimp, graphics gale and krita are free, and user friendly.

Js, if you don't want this sub-genre of hentai to die, make a change yourself, instead of waiting for others or getting mad at a content creator.

 

[NSR]

Yeah no hard disagree, from someone who did non H chars in the past / some own personal editing.
I'll say it again.

Coding is easier, spritework isnt for everyone. You seem under the impression the barrier is obtaining the tools, that isn't the case, anyone and everyone knows thats easy. But there's a difference between good spritework and editing, and disservicable messes. That's not even subjective. Anyone can tell on sight an Ernov edit in quality from an Horaukuti for example. Not everyone can do that well. You can say " well its a learned skill" yeah one not everyone develops. It's partially why its honestly more lucrative to commission someone who DOES do good in that style of art.

I can draw normally. I'm not great at spritework.

 

[SpectatorX]

Lol, it is indeed a learned skill. Just some people dont have the patience. Trust me, ive had several people ask me to and when i start explaining even to the simplest forms how "how to edit a charater and make a sprite," all i hear is it's too much work. Coding generally have much more done: You have to know states and state defs, various triggers, and a code that actually works fell and doesnt interfere with the characters cns to the point its buggy. From what i get from you is "i learn coding but pay someone to edit." Even doing non h characters you still have to make sprites. Me personally, I can draw normally but i still research various ways of how fighting game companies indeed made their sprites and they all vary. My point is i had the drive to actually do these things and will to learn them.

From what I see anytime someone wants to learn how to do it is they get overwhelmed once they see creating content isnt that easy. It's an individual issue. If people really wanted to make something for mugen they'd do it. But obviously they don't, and proceed to complain about actual creator and their way of doing things.

 

[NSR]

Well what you get from me is that I also COMPLETED, my own edits/characters.

And frankly, I said it in the prior post. It's definitely better for most to have someone who is good at spritework do it than mangle it.

Dunno why you'd dance around my points to toot your own horn, that's what I got from your post. If that wasn't the intent, then I misinterpretted. But in the same vein an individual or small handful does not make a scene alive - thats the crux of the problem and is almost not even up for debate that mugen H is in a much worse spot than before, and continues to get worse. Worse off acknowledging ya monetization doesn't help (which, I also mentioned).

Edit: Also gonna note I hard disagree with the " you cant complain if you havent produced/willing to produce continually" mindset too. Just I vocalize that, obviously.
We'll see how this thread develops after this but it's lookin like even I'm agreeing with a lock inevitably.