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Re: Injustice Unlimited

I was going to point out that SunsetRiders7 were 0 for 2 on completing games - Bend or Break was an exercise in game making and wasn't completely finished - and now Injustice Unlimited but since there is some sort of plan on trying to finish Injustice, I guess I should say, "Hopefully everything works out for you in the near and far future. Good Luck!"

With that said, thank you very much for your work and I'm looking forward to see what you'll have in the future. Please keep us informed!

Cheers!
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

There's a lot of words there that really dance around the subject but don't actually address it. If you don't know what you're going to do with Injustice, or when you're going to do it, just tell us that you don't know.

Edit: Pay no attention to freeko, it's a bot that spews useless and illogical fallacies about the U.S. legal system.
 
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Re: Injustice Unlimited

lol at the tags. I will save most of the obvious patreon bullshit for another time.

Is there actually a straight answer to be had?

Why not switch to per update in the interim as it would seem that you are not actively working on a project now?

Not that I care how many people you gain or lose on patreon, but if I were supporting someone and they stopped doing stuff... That way you take as long as you need to before realizing that the DMCA could be easily defeated if you challenged it. Maybe you figure out what you want to do as well with your other projects?
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

There's a lot of words there that really dance around the subject but don't actually address it. If you don't know what you're going to do with Injustice, or when you're going to do it, just tell us that you don't know.

Edit: Pay no attention freeko, it's a bot that spews useless and illogical fallacies about the U.S. legal system.

I'm not sure if you are implying I'm a bot or someone else is so I'm not going to address that part. As far as not knowing what we will do with Injustice you are a very keen observer. We don't know! We have over 1000-1500 hrs into the project at this point (all supported by Patrons). Now some people would have us come up with an idea by listening to their "expert" opinion since they were a student of the Lionel Hutz school of law. This would be the worst decision possible. One thing is clear we cannot distribute Injustice on Patreon. So now we need to show all patrons that we will take all the care needed with Injustice. An EDUCATED decision needs to made with all the info we deem necessary in making this decision. So this will begin in February.

lol at the tags. I will save most of the obvious patreon bullshit for another time.

Is there actually a straight answer to be had?

Why not switch to per update in the interim as it would seem that you are not actively working on a project now?

Not that I care how many people you gain or lose on patreon, but if I were supporting someone and they stopped doing stuff... That way you take as long as you need to before realizing that the DMCA could be easily defeated if you challenged it. Maybe you figure out what you want to do as well with your other projects?

Freeko don't lie you wish all people on Patreon would vanish like the rapture (uh oh did I poke the patreon bear lol). On a more serious note, Freeko Patreon actually removed the material from our front page. They also requested all material be removed from our Patreon feed. Along with all other materials that may infringe (over 150 posts) or we would risk permanent removal of our page (that is pretty serious, I'm sure if your boss said to you "remove a nudey calender from your desk or be fired" you would remove it). Now we could challenge the DMCA (which said go to federal court) but Patreon still wouldn't have the material on their site. What good would that do for us? Second any implication that our Patreon is linked to infringing material puts just as much risk as before (which isn't needed). I made a post on our Patreon today explaining in very intricate detail (free for all to read) our plan moving forward. I appreciate all the pseudo legal advice, (it was helpful to a degree) and support.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

Freeko don't lie you wish all people on Patreon would vanish like the rapture (uh oh did I poke the patreon bear lol).

I did say I was saving the normal patreon bullshit for later didn't I?

Anyway, you seem to have missed my actual question. Now that you are not seemingly able to continue with this project, would you continue to charge per month for what might possibly be nothing? Would it not make more sense to charge per update instead until you get things sorted out?
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

I did say I was saving the normal patreon bullshit for later didn't I?

Anyway, you seem to have missed my actual question. Now that you are not seemingly able to continue with this project, would you continue to charge per month for what might possibly be nothing? Would it not make more sense to charge per update instead until you get things sorted out?

lol I did say that I explained this in detail over on my patreon! We will be outlining another project to commence immediately. Injustice had roughly 2-3 months left in development. We had already began taking measures in designing and planning another project to coincide with the release of injustice. Although we wanted the project to be separate from patreon. So we do have a project and will continue with the monthly billing. All info is over on Patreon so don't be scared Freeko it's free for everyone to view! But one rule no Freeko's allowed to sign up ok!

(this post)
 
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Re: Injustice Unlimited

Read the whole rundown in stg over on 4chan and thought about posting there, but seriously didn't want to deal with the vitriol everyone seems to have when anyone attempts even the barest compliment of a content producer. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the way your team has handled the whole DMCA situation. It's nice to see that some careful thought is going into how things are going to progress and that all the work your team has done won't just disappear in a puff of smoke. It's been almost painful to see the sheer amount of people who post repeatedly about the legal aspects of the DMCA holding up without considering the real-world ramifications of Patreon wiping your account. The new project looks really promising, and it's awesome to see how much you've learned from putting together Injustice, just from what I could see in the planning documents. Can't wait to see a build so I can take a crack at it.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

I'm not sure if you are implying I'm a bot or someone else is so I'm not going to address that part. As far as not knowing what we will do with Injustice you are a very keen observer. We don't know! We have over 1000-1500 hrs into the project at this point (all supported by Patrons). Now some people would have us come up with an idea by listening to their "expert" opinion since they were a student of the Lionel Hutz school of law. This would be the worst decision possible. One thing is clear we cannot distribute Injustice on Patreon. So now we need to show all patrons that we will take all the care needed with Injustice. An EDUCATED decision needs to made with all the info we deem necessary in making this decision. So this will begin in February.

Humblest apologies, there was supposed to be a 'to' in there, I am not accusing YOU of being a bot. And thank you for speaking openly with us about your plans.


So, for the life of me, I could not get past having the first girl dancing. Would only make somewhere between 30-40K which isn't enough to do anything, before I'd stop making money. Is this intended behavior and I'm just getting bad rolls, or a bug? Version 1.5.5 Note: I cheat-engined my way around it, so no big deal was just wondering.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

So, for the life of me, I could not get past having the first girl dancing. Would only make somewhere between 30-40K which isn't enough to do anything, before I'd stop making money. Is this intended behavior and I'm just getting bad rolls, or a bug? Version 1.5.5 Note: I cheat-engined my way around it, so no big deal was just wondering.

Did you try taking her off work for a night and putting her back on? I think it's explained as you play, but if not, you need to pull a girl from a job every few days to reset how much money she makes. Patrons of your strip club will get bored seeing the same face every night and pay less for each successive day the girl works, but taking her off the roster for a night resets things. Iirc, I worked a girl three nights and then had her rest (at least until I opened other jobs, then I just rotated every girl 1 slot to the right in a job, and through each job tier every night (back to the top left when they reach the last open work slot.)
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

Read the whole rundown in stg over on 4chan and thought about posting there, but seriously didn't want to deal with the vitriol everyone seems to have when anyone attempts even the barest compliment of a content producer. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the way your team has handled the whole DMCA situation. It's nice to see that some careful thought is going into how things are going to progress and that all the work your team has done won't just disappear in a puff of smoke. It's been almost painful to see the sheer amount of people who post repeatedly about the legal aspects of the DMCA holding up without considering the real-world ramifications of Patreon wiping your account. The new project looks really promising, and it's awesome to see how much you've learned from putting together Injustice, just from what I could see in the planning documents. Can't wait to see a build so I can take a crack at it.

I appreciate the support! 4chan is a mixing bowl of people. Unfortunately it's hard to filter through the noise on there sometimes as people can post anon so it's hard to see if it is just one person or a group that is screaming. What get's missed by the "he is running away with all the monies" crowd is we have over 1000+ hrs invested in Injustice. To make a knee jerk reaction could leave us in a worse position. We have always stated we are going long in the sense of being in this western adult game industry (not with our projects). So if you want to survive the low spots you need to be smart, and get as much info as possible. Thank you so much for being reasonable.

Humblest apologies, there was supposed to be a 'to' in there, I am not accusing YOU of being a bot. And thank you for speaking openly with us about your plans.

No problem, I just had to deal with like 100's of negative comments, in the end it was hard to decipher good from bad. Our goal is to give people an awesome experience with our games, but also an awesome experience as a funder. DMCA behind us now you will see a lot of change and more availability of our games. I will update this thread when we discuss a plan with Injustice. At this point we are leaning heavily on the renaming and quite distribution of the game. We just need to see if that will cut it.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

This almost makes me wonder, how would a "hidden" patreon run afoul of copyrighted material?

Not so much in the sense that you played with fire and wonder why you got burned, but in the sense of how would they even know you existed in the first place?

I guess there is some way to see patreon as a whole?

I more ask this because i think another patreon revolving around characters from a moba might well be next to get cut down.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

This almost makes me wonder, how would a "hidden" patreon run afoul of copyrighted material?

Not so much in the sense that you played with fire and wonder why you got burned, but in the sense of how would they even know you existed in the first place?

I guess there is some way to see patreon as a whole?

I more ask this because i think another patreon revolving around characters from a moba might well be next to get cut down.

If you searched Injustice Unlimited we would have came up on page 3 of Google (4chan actually) so that is probably how we were found.

We discussed this at length on if we could continue Injustice else where and still operate Patreon with no content really (blog of sorts). Really the only way we could think that it would work is if you drove your fan base to Patreon from other sources. But then have all your work distributed on the those other places. Meaning your conversion or support rate would suffer greatly unless you operated like Akabur. Akabur has the best in that sense. You get absolutely nothing as a supporter. I mean status updates and screen caps, but nothing in the way of direct infringement of IP's on Patreon. He then says tip me! So he is set up to work at his own pace as there is zero promises or transactions for goods on his end. We chose to go a different route.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

This almost makes me wonder, how would a "hidden" patreon run afoul of copyrighted material?

My Patreon is "hidden" on Patreon; yet it's linked on at least 50+ other sites.
Same way people can find my Patreon, they can find any other Patreon, hidden or not, NSFW or not.

Not so much in the sense that you played with fire and wonder why you got burned, but in the sense of how would they even know you existed in the first place?

Word of mouth. This wasn't exactly a small game with a tiny fan-base; a LOT of people liked this game and talked about it frequently on multiple forums. Warner Brothers (and any other large company) has a department of multiple employees that literally spend their entire day just searching for copyrighted material; it's their main purpose for employment.

I more ask this because i think another patreon revolving around characters from a moba might well be next to get cut down.

Companies all treat copyright differently. Warner Brothers are notorious for going after people regarding copyright moreso than many other companies. MOBA companies are not nearly as large as the massive conglomerate that WB is, and are much less likely to have the resources available to go after someone for copyright as hard as WB can.

Additionally, most MOBA-centric companies were formed in the last 10 or so years (and they're based around gaming in general), meaning their staff is generally comprised of people who understand the benefits to "free advertisement" for their product much moreso than a much older company like WB, which generally has much more conservative/traditional staff at its highest positions (the people who make the rules).

Finally, one more note;

At this point we are leaning heavily on the renaming and quite distribution of the game. We just need to see if that will cut it.

Highly, highly do not suggest doing this. WB will still absolutely have a case against you if you do this, and they'll hit harder than before because you'd be deliberately ignoring/trying to circumvent their DMCA.

If you change the name of your drugs from "meth" to "Blue Sky" and sell it on the downlow, behind closed doors, does that make it any less illegal to sell to people?

Their case basically revolves around two things;

1) Your art is practically indistinguishable from the original artstyle for many of their series (even if they're older series) to the average person. This means that someone could, in court, reasonably argue that your stuff could be confused with being official creations. This is a MAJOR point in their case, for sure.

2) Your visuals of the characters (outfits, etc.) are pretty similar to the original designs. These would need to be radically changed; we're talking totally different hairstyle, costumes, maybe even body proportions. Anything less, and again, they could legally argue that you have just given the same character a different costume, and the average person could still mistake them for that recognizable character (much like palette swaps in Street Fighter, for instance).

Essentially, what people need to realize is that when people cite cases where people get away with recolors or costume swaps or alterations in name or visuals when it comes to skirting copyright, that isn't because it legally WORKS, it's because that company LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.

There is so much stuff out there right now that could be sued into oblivion but the companies involved don't do it because they either 1) realize the value of free advertising for their product, even if it's pornography, or 2) they work out a deal with the people(s) making the altered or similar products that works in their favor or controls the amount of alteration/content involved.

Warner Brothers is not a company that gives leeway on this.
Just giving advice, is all; I honestly hope you succeed in making western hentai, I just don't want to see you get sued into oblivion by a mammoth company.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

It makes me want to puke, but I have to agree.

The only way you could salvage this as it is, is likely to shift things into a full on parody. Now what does that mean? Blunder Woman and Suckme Girl would need to be put in place instead of their comic counterparts. Of course you could not use any real copyrighted names or outfits so I wonder if a palette swap would be enough or not.

Super Girl for example had 3 or 4 different outfits that all revolved around Red, White and Blue (mostly lighter blue if memory serves). But if you went with different colors entirely, I wonder if that would work. Probably not, but you would have to either make completely original characters or parody characters one way or the other.

Simply renaming and recoloring things seems like a better method of progressing. Then again you do get to string people along for a much longer ride if you do it all over again from scratch.

Personally I don't care if you put 10 minutes or 1000 hours into it. The typical full time employee would work about 2080 hours in a year at their 9-5 job. You have put in half of that combined between the group of you? Lazy.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

It makes me want to puke, but I have to agree.

The only way you could salvage this as it is, is likely to shift things into a full on parody. Now what does that mean? Blunder Woman and Suckme Girl would need to be put in place instead of their comic counterparts. Of course you could not use any real copyrighted names or outfits so I wonder if a palette swap would be enough or not.

Super Girl for example had 3 or 4 different outfits that all revolved around Red, White and Blue (mostly lighter blue if memory serves). But if you went with different colors entirely, I wonder if that would work. Probably not, but you would have to either make completely original characters or parody characters one way or the other.

Simply renaming and recoloring things seems like a better method of progressing. Then again you do get to string people along for a much longer ride if you do it all over again from scratch.

Personally I don't care if you put 10 minutes or 1000 hours into it. The typical full time employee would work about 2080 hours in a year at their 9-5 job. You have put in half of that combined between the group of you? Lazy.

Kinda Harsh, I'd say the amount of hours put into the game is relevant, considering they might have a 9-5 job and those 1000 hours are a combination of their free time, time away from family and whatever else might be happening in their life.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

Thing is. There's lots of talented artists out there and I agree about the art being so close in style to their own that it's hard to distinguish which is such a great draw. But if you finish the game and throw up the link onto HF for anyone to freely play and even change a few things in the title and menu to clearly distinguish this as a parody to the WB property I don't see how they'd have a better case to go against a game where the creator isn't making any money off of compared to Vivid's superhero movies like Superman XXX who are charging lots of money for.

If I were to draw a nude Wonder Woman and share it for everyone how can they sue me to collect revenue on a property of theirs if there was no revenue generated. That's what makes Patreon so tricky. You can correlate between being "tipped" and creating material using other peoples property. But as you say Akabur gets away with it because he's in Russia, gives his stuff away for free and some companies see any marketing of their product as good marketing.

I joined Patreon because of Injustice, its something I was really looking forward to so I hope that all of the support that had been given for that sees its way to eventually finishing the game. It would be such a shame to not see it come out, I don't care if people that didn't support get to play for free. I'm all for staying to see the new OC stuff but Injustice getting finished will go a long way in my eyes. Hope a way can be found.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

But if you finish the game and throw up the link onto HF for anyone to freely play and even change a few things in the title and menu to clearly distinguish this as a parody to the WB property I don't see how they'd have a better case to go against a game where the creator isn't making any money off of compared to Vivid's superhero movies like Superman XXX who are charging lots of money for.

WB doesn't care about the money earned.

It is wholly, 100% not at all, whatsoever about the money. SR7 could have given away $1,000,000 to charity that he made off of this game or kept it all for himself or paid WB $1,000,000 to allow him to make this game. Wouldn't make a difference whatsoever.

The sole reason WB is mad about this is because they want control over how their IP is viewed and received.

There are lots of people who draw WB-series-based art. The thing is, very few of them ever get to this level of prominence and exposure on the internet that SR7 has achieved. This, therefore, means that there is a much higher percentage that some random dude is going to be googling "warner brothers art" and stumble on SR7's artwork, and then, as idiotic as this may be, they would have a case in court for saying "well, it LOOKS like official art, I thought WB really was making hentai now, so I went around and told all my friends, and they told their friends, and they told their friends, and..."

Now, WB has to clean up the mess by saying outright that they in fact do not endorse this game, they are not making it, not affiliated with it, so forth. By now though, it's too late; this product has given their IPs a "stigma" that they do not want associated with it, and older, more conservative companies HATE their IP being viewed in any way besides the one they want it to be viewed.

Legally, they can argue lost income with this, as they can claim that this game that SR7 has made has "tainted" the view of the product, and now consumers do not want to be associated with something that "has pornography of it". Yes, I realize that logically, this is a major fallacy as porn has been drawn of this like for forever, but the angle they'll use is that the everyday consumer, who isn't even actively searching for this stuff, could have and has ran into it through just everyday usage of the internet/searching for warner brothers/DC material, due to its popularity.

This is very similar to a case a few years back with Chrono Trigger, where Squaresoft shut down a fan-made, 3D remake of Chrono Trigger, that was only going to have specific scenes in it, and not even the full game; it asked for no profits or donations, was done simply as a labor of love, had NO pornography or any alterations in it, and was completely and wholly shut down with a DMCA threatening legal action and financial penalties if they didn't scrub the internet clean of it instantly.

Now if Square can get away with doing something like that for a non-pornographic, non-income receiving, non-altering-the-source-material (besides making it in 3D) video game, how much of a hope do you think SR7 has for Injustice skirting the DMCA law regarding WB's properties?
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

But once a property is released for public consumption the public is protected in their interpretation of that property. If another entity wants to satirize, criticize, praise and tribute the original work they may do so because of freedom of speech and expression so long as there isn't profit being made.

If someone wants to make money off of the original property they may do so if they work out licensing deals, which would not happen in this case.
 
Re: Injustice Unlimited

But once a property is released for public consumption the public is protected in their interpretation of that property. If another entity wants to satirize, criticize, praise and tribute the original work they may do so because of freedom of speech and expression so long as there isn't profit being made.

Read back in the thread to see multiple cases showing this isn't true.
This is an old wives tale that has been popularized in the last few years, but it holds no actual legal standing. It also holds no legal standing here especially since Injustice isn't a "parody" or "satire" legally.


I talked about this in the post just above this one (please read it), but here's the full story on it.

Square shut it down legally.
"In 2004, the project was publicly closed after Square Enix issued a cease-and-desist letter to Resurrection Games for trademark and copyright infringement."
 
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