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Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

  • Freeform

    Votes: 6 75.0%

  • Traditional RP

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • Total voters
    8

Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

My take is that a well trained and truly strong opponent should be able to handle his or her self in a fight against an armed opponent. But I might not use PVP for this because it all comes down to matter of honor, I guess you could say; someone posting that score a hit on another player, then the two either flaming and posting back and forth arguing, or whining to me; eventually causing it to dissolve into chaos; which is one of the main things I want to PREVENT. >_<

Also regarding weapons, a smart or fast opponent can very possibly avoid a knife or sword blade, catch it in their hands, or find a way to avoid attacks or disarm their opponents, especially with heavier weapons. For the sake of argument, GUNS DO NOT EXIST. As that would just be cheating out of the ass. If PVP does happen to become incorporated into the game at one point or another, I might just simplify it as much as possible and keep it a simple d20 roll, with no modifiers.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

My take on weapons is that they're something of a double-edged sword. On one hand, they impart extra lethality and range, and in many cases, speed to your attacks. A sufficiantly skilled fighter, say, someone powered up by a magatama, who made a weapon style their main fighting style would be able to use their weapon as an extention of their body. Even a heavy weapon like a halberd (to use an extreme example) could be used with no drawbacks by one of these characters, providing that they were properly trained in its use. On the other hand, for someone whose main form of combat relies on a weapon, losing that weapon would be devistating. In the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, there's a very clear example of this with Dian Wei's death, his weapon was stolen while he slept.

Unarmed fighters have the advantage that they can never lose their weapon, but a fist or kick will never have the same destructive power as an equally skilled blow with a sword, spear or any other weapon. My character's main style is a weapon style, and you can bet she'll be in deep trouble when she doesn't have her weapon in hand.

I don't have any problems with PVP combat in freeform, as long as people don't godmode. The only rule I would enforce would be that for each post, the character is allowed to make only a single attack (or combination attack) so that the defender has the opportunity to possibly defend against it. The greatest rule for PVP freeform combat I feel, is common sense, but I can understand if Tenta doesn't want to have it. Plus I kind of like the idea that we'd all be on the same team, or at least pretending to be on the same team...

I don't really like the idea of having stats, even hidden ones, for the characters. A simple description of their fighting style should suffice for defining their combat capabilities. I'll use my character as an example (note: I havn't even cleared this with Tenta yet, but I don't foresee any problems).

Akemi has trained extensivly in Kyuudo, Japanese archery, and this is her primary form of combat. She uses special blunt-tipped arrows to strike at foe's pressure points at long ranges, but she also has standard arrows for when she needs to use deadly force. She's also been trained in Tae Kwon Do, and uses powerful kicks to keep enemies away who get too close for her to use her bow on them. Her main weakness is a lack of skill in very close quarters fighting and grappling.
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In this instance, Akemi would be very dangerous at very long ranges thanks to being able to outdistance just about any enemy that isn't also using a ranged weapon, but if the enemy managed to close the distance, or she was caught off-guard, she'd be very vulnerable, and almost helpless if she was put in a hold. These guidelines make it very clear how Akemi would fare in various combat situations without the need for stats telling me what she's capable of.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

I think that with this group we won't really need to worry about godmoding; we seem to be a reasonable bunch. Besides, we can always boot people who do it excessively (right?) Personally, I'm fine with either all of us being on the same "team" or with outright PVP off the bat. Additionally, on the subject of stats, I don't think that they work with a completely freeform system like what we seem to be going for; the power curve (e.g. "this is what an A-rank can do, this is what a B-rank can do, etc.) feels like it would work out better.

Also, much like Minasa, Kenasuko (for that is my character's name) also punches things. However, unlike Minasa, when Kenasuko punches things, they'll be able to tell. :p
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Unlike Minasa? I didn't even post a char sheet. You don't know Jack, son.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

I may not know Jack (Bauer? Daniels? Inthebox?) but I do know that there is only room enough in this town for one punchmaster, and I am he who punchmasters last, ergo I punchmaster best! :D
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Oh.

Oh...uh...I have to...go over there and...uh....

I'mma go punch that tree. In half. With my punchmakers.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

cross_grave said:
I don't like the idea of "immunity", sounds too much like deus ex machina to me. I mean, if the attack is something along the lines of "impaling a guy on a long spear" then it's hard to find a way to make one immune to this without doing an ass-pull.
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By the same token, if you impale a guy on a long spear, that's a one hit kill. By default, once you start using that as your opening attack, you're pretty much declaring yourself as a god-moding twink.

The idea of my 'advantage' (note, not immunity) is that people of different ranks, the higher rank can take more hits before they're injured/reduced to the strength of the lower rank fighter.

cross_grave said:
Oh, and one more thing about Kathy's idea: the "immunity" would make battles between high-level characters unnecessarily long, considering that both combatants would be good at avoiding blows and the first few successful attacks would be simply wasted. I'm pretty sure that at least one person would get frustrated by that - and that's a good motivation to finding a way to bypass the rule.
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P.S. Cross: you completely ignored my basis for the rule. I didn't say you gain 1 immunity per rank. I said 1 'advantage' for each rank DIFFERENCE. A rank vs. A rank, there are NO points. Only in different ranks, such as a C vs. D, there would be points, 1 point in this case, in favor of the C rank.

Further, who said it had to simply be "immune" to an attack, I said this was one example of it? In your spear example (assuming we tolerate this level of twinking it up), I would 'defend' against it, by declaring my higher ranked character's natural combat reflexes kick in once, and I just take a casual cut, rather than being impaled. Which could be roleplayed off as doing no real damage. Hence giving me my "advantage" for the one hit, while not breaking the mood of the RP. As opposed to simply murdering someone outright with your spear, which is going to be a major mood-killer when you show up and start assassinating other players and major NPCs.



Regardless of my "advantage" rule or not, it seems like Cross is just trying to go out of his way to make anyone with a weapon have a huge advantage and then become a weapon fighter.

I'd like it to simply be ruled that weapon fighters have no advantage with their weapon. Adding weapons to the mix like this is just going to make the entire situation messier and more difficult to deal with. Any advantages of a weapon should be automatically negated by their disadvantages, otherwise none of us are going to go anywhere without a huge arsenal of swords, spears, and whatever else we can get our hands on, simply because weapons are going to be gamebreaking.

Even when Cross is stepping back and making concessions to the weapon vs. unarmed fighters debate, he's still stressing that the non-weapon fighter is going to be taking damage from blocked attacks and all kinds of other game-breakers.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Planning on using a weapon fighter myself, I actually consider Akemi to be, on the whole, weaker than someone else of her rank due to her reliance on a weapon.

Also, you don't need a get out of jail free card to avoid attacks. Especially early on in a battle, it'd be unlikly for either side to land serious blows with any attack regardless of who's using what for a weapon. Spears can easily be sidestepped, arrows dodged, swords deflected, etc. I don't think that weapon fighters should be, overall, more powerful than unarmed fighters, just with extra attack and weakness options.

On the topic of lethal attacks, I think these should be able to be avoided, blocked, deflected, or in any other way negated except when the defending party is almost defeated anyway. In essense, they'd function as finishing moves. Like Kathy says, if you start of with a killing thrust with a spear, it's not going to be that much fun and you're going to start drawing the eyes of law enforcement with the wake of bodies you leave behind. Killing foes should be a rare occurance.

Considering the style of the game, maybe potentially lethal attacks made in regular battle can just shed an opponent's clothes. Keeps people alive and shows some skin.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

What does everyone think of the D20 suggestion I made? I thought all PCs would start off with a +0 for D/E rank and would get maybe +1/+2 per rank. But rather attacks struck or not would be based on a unmodified D20 roll therefore making it more realistic(?) rather then worrying about an immunity/advantage thing.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Kathy said:
By the same token, if you impale a guy on a long spear, that's a one hit kill. By default, once you start using that as your opening attack, you're pretty much declaring yourself as a god-moding twink.

The idea of my 'advantage' (note, not immunity) is that people of different ranks, the higher rank can take more hits before they're injured/reduced to the strength of the lower rank fighter.
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Who the Hell starts a fight by impaling an opponent? I'm pretty damn aware it's impossible to do, I assure you. But when you mentioned "brushing off attacks that seemed lethal", I felt really uneasy.

Also, what you've stated in the second paragraph isn't entirely true. Resistance to attacks (which can also deal various kinds of damage) varies from person to person and I don't like to put everyone in the same box. Unless we assume that magatamas magically increase a person's toughness. I am not familiar with Ikki Tousen that much.

Kathy said:
P.S. Cross: you completely ignored my basis for the rule. I didn't say you gain 1 immunity per rank. I said 1 'advantage' for each rank DIFFERENCE. A rank vs. A rank, there are NO points. Only in different ranks, such as a C vs. D, there would be points, 1 point in this case, in favor of the C rank.

Further, who said it had to simply be "immune" to an attack, I said this was one example of it? In your spear example (assuming we tolerate this level of twinking it up), I would 'defend' against it, by declaring my higher ranked character's natural combat reflexes kick in once, and I just take a casual cut, rather than being impaled. Which could be roleplayed off as doing no real damage. Hence giving me my "advantage" for the one hit, while not breaking the mood of the RP. As opposed to simply murdering someone outright with your spear, which is going to be a major mood-killer when you show up and start assassinating other players and major NPCs.
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Since you wish to stick with my flawed example, may I point out that the "natural reflexes" stuff doesn't really need an advantage point system to support it? Of course, this would require your character to have a "build" that supports the claim instead, and your opponent would also have to lack your speed. This is kinda how I saw it working - character's ability to defend himself determined purely by his own abilities and nothing else.

And by the way, you missed my point: I deliberately chose an attack that can't be used at the very start of the battle. I am afraid that your system will simply ruin a weaker character's chance to deal a finishing blow when he actually has a chance to succeed.

Kathy said:
Regardless of my "advantage" rule or not, it seems like Cross is just trying to go out of his way to make anyone with a weapon have a huge advantage and then become a weapon fighter.

I'd like it to simply be ruled that weapon fighters have no advantage with their weapon. Adding weapons to the mix like this is just going to make the entire situation messier and more difficult to deal with. Any advantages of a weapon should be automatically negated by their disadvantages, otherwise none of us are going to go anywhere without a huge arsenal of swords, spears, and whatever else we can get our hands on, simply because weapons are going to be gamebreaking.

Even when Cross is stepping back and making concessions to the weapon vs. unarmed fighters debate, he's still stressing that the non-weapon fighter is going to be taking damage from blocked attacks and all kinds of other game-breakers.
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Eh... In the very first post about weapons, I stated that an unarmed and armed fighters are equals in combat. It seems you missed that line, as well as the fact that I kept persuading Termite that weapons don't give as much of an advantage as he thinks.

I admit, I do intend to make a weapon user. I also know that having a game breaker in freeform RP is boring, simply because the combat sucks - you can't get a decent fight. I am hoping that the battles here will be fair. But also I don't want them to get too long, and I believe your system may draw them out unnecessarily. You seem to think I don't like it because I wish to make a gamebreaking instant killer. I do apologize for misreading your posts, though, and promise to pay more attention. I hope you can do the same.

Personally, I'm against all the dice/advantage systems because I believe firmly in purely freeform combat. I did it a couple of times and everyone had fun. On the other hand, I can't help but think that regulating things with numbers makes the experience less realistic.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

My real MAIN problem is I'm (no offense at all) afraid I don't really trust freeform. (Even though I did let you decide) The thing is I have to have full faith in all parties involved in this game to show good judgement and be fair. I mean I guess only a n00b would go for a kill shot like a knife to the heart or something, but I don't want this to disintegrate into chaos and flaming when we DO start it. We're going nowhere fast :( I somewhat think I need a co-mod/co-gm to regulate combat for me or something. A non-bias observer who isn't participating in the game and can therefore be fair and even determining fight outcomes.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Is this even about the sex anymore? Because that's all I really saw that interested me.

If you guys are all about the fighting though, that's fine.
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

I think people are thinking different things when they talk about freeform combat. So let's answer that question first.

How do you see a battle being played out?
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Well, while I was at work today I started thinking about a system that could be implemented here, with everyone's input and approval, of course. (Before you start wondering how I can work and think of a system at the same time, allow me to assure you my job requires very little brainpower to complete; my mind inevitably wanders to stave off boredom).

Now, it does stray from the freeform system we'd decided on, but honestly, freeform is almost impossible to keep from degenerating into an argument about how you can't dodge that attack, well yes I can because I can jump that high, no you can't because the attack was as high as the Earth, well whatever my dad can beat up your dad, and holy shit Billy's dad really could beat up Tom's.

Anyway, my idea was a system of, for lack of a better phrase, "Refresh by post". Each player has a number of things they can do at base (before adding Strengths and Weaknesses; more on those later) a certain number of times between posts; so, let's say we decide that at base a player can declare a dodge on an attack once every 6 posts (numbers may be altered to protect the innocent). That means that the player has to post 6 times (alternating posts, of course) before being able to declare a dodge. If players have no way to dodge, withstand, or otherwise mitigate an attack, they take a "Hit". After a certain number of Hits, a player is defeated (possibly increasing as players rank up).

Next, we come up with a list of Strengths and Weaknesses a player can take (to a limit; I'm thinking 1 bonus base, plus 1 bonus for each Weakness taken at creation (max 2), plus 1 bonus per rank increase) to alter their refresh rate or provide other bonuses. So, going back to our dodge example, let's say we come up with a bonus called "Agile" that decreases the dodge refresh rate by 1; now, instead of being able to dodge only once every 6 posts, the player can dodge every 5 posts.

Also, I'm thinking one defensive action and one (move or attack) action per post. Additionally, we could come up with a number of "styles" to represent methods of attacking (such as a number of weapon styles, unarmed style, grapple style, etc.) each with their own bonuses and penalties separate from the Strengths and Weaknesses. I have a number of ideas for these Strengths, Weaknesses and Styles already, and I'd like to expand them to, like, four tiers of each (so four tiers of "Agile", four tiers of "Unarmed Striking", etc.).

This is just a bare-bones outline, attempting to gauge interest. As I mentioned, I have quite a few more ideas, so don't hold it against me that it seems very sparse; I want to be sure there's enough people interested before I go writing a damn book about it :D.

So, any opinions? Questions? Suggestions? Yeas? Nays? "STFUTA"s?
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

I like this system actually, even the free dodge, which I assume is essentially a get out of an attack free card. My one suggestion would be that if you declare a dodge, you can't do anything else except move in that post. (With possibly a high rank ability allowing you to dodge and attack in one post.)
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Well, as it turns out, I had a couple more ideas, that I, with my eidetic memory, forgot to mention.

Yes, a dodge would be a "get out of an attack". Additionally, I had an idea for a "Durable" Strength, that would grant you a "Withstand" defense, another "get out of an attack" option. However, unarmed attacks do not have a refresh timer (I'm thinking weapon attacks might, but have other bonuses; e.g "Spear Style" could have its attack refresh once per 3 (or whatever) posts, but if your opponent uses a move action to enter hand-to-hand with you, your attack refreshes.)

Also, another idea was to include "Glancing Blows" which are basically half of a hit (so 2 GBs = 1 Hit) with the most common way to deal them being to attack with a style you are unfamiliar with; so, if you only have "Bow Style" and someone gets all up in your grill, you could kick them and, if it connects, it would deal a Glancing Blow.

I think that was everything very important I wanted to include in the original but forgot. Of course, I'm probably forgetting something else vital. Ah well :).
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

I really prefer the referee idea Tent had. I mean, I figured he himself would decide who wins because of this or that, but if he wants a co-whatever that's fine too. I just can't stand stats, because they're emotionless. Sure, they give bad roleplayers guidance to stop them from ruining the scene, but they lack the fluid flow a logical mind can provide. I'd rather have a GM say, "Their blow hits you, it hurts, but you're still fine" and give me a valid reason as to why, than have 'the system' say 'you suffered five hits and now you're dead amen.'
 
Re: Thoughts of an Ikki Tousen RP

Alright, since people seem to be interested in systems, there's one I'm willing to accept without complaining. This one:

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Now, I'm sure it would probably require some tweaking to work here, but I think it's an interesting concept.
 
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