Why can't people tag properly anymore?

[Exofluke]

I suppose this is more of a rant due to the constant lack of appropriate tagging at ehentai. To me, art is tagged by the situations in the art. However, the situations are organized mainly by two levels. You have the stuff like titfuck or blowjob. Then there's the core levels: rape, submission and consensual. Unlike the first category, core levels are what define the entire whole of whatever image or story.

That might depend on the story but you can really only have one core tag without contradicting yourself. That's how I see it at least.

So say you read a manga where some chick is picked up by a tentacle monster, raped; then she gives in and starts wanting it and that's the entire story to the manga. I wouldn't tag it rape or consensual (as it has both during certain parts), I would tag it submission. Make sense? Tagging it with rape implies that the entire story is rape, but that can't be so since the end of the story is anything but.

I just think that they really should implement submission as a core tag, to illustrate the arc of a CG set or story or something.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

So say you read a manga where some chick is picked up by a tentacle monster, raped; then she gives in and starts wanting it and that's the entire story to the manga. I wouldn't tag it rape or consensual (as it has both during certain parts), I would tag it submission. Make sense? Tagging it with rape implies that the entire story is rape, but that can't be so since the end of the story is anything but.

I just think that they really should implement submission as a core tag, to illustrate the arc of a CG set or story or something.

I'm not familiar with e-hentai, but in general tagging x with y doesn't mean that x is entirely y, just that it contains y. You see, some people don't like rape, so if a story contains rape, they wont want to read it even if it's not all rape.

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

I'm not familiar with e-hentai, but in general tagging x with y doesn't mean that x is entirely y, just that it contains y. You see, some people don't like rape, so if a story contains rape, they wont want to read it even if it's not all rape.

I'll agree to that with certain sets. Like CG artist sets, where there are different situations with different pictures. But for an entire situation that is consistent enough, having more than one core tag is just a contradiction. It's a lie about the premise of the story. I know a few people who don't like rape, but will fall for submission content any day.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Tagging it with rape implies that the entire story is rape

No it doesn't, although I admit "submission" works. I never liked it, but I guess the term "mind-break"

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

No it doesn't, although I admit "submission" works. I never liked it, but I guess the term "mind-break"

I'm speaking in terms on consistency though. It would make sense if the story was separated into parts or something. But if from image A to B: the story had no periods, then how can you tag something rape and consent and assume to get away with it?

 

[Incubus]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

I consent to rape you. :3

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Because A is A and B is B and they're both included.

Unless I'm confused about the situation, but I'm pretty sure what I understand is exactly how you explained it.

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Ahhh, but now that just defiles the story itself. If I'm reading a tentacle rape manga and so far it's rape, but then half way through the victim gives in. Where's the rape? To me, seeing the rape tag would be like false advertising. The story is ruined now.

Think of it like tagging a manga with tittyfuck. However, the only scene in the entire manga that is closest to a titfuck, is a penis sitting gently on top of one boob.

 

[Incubus]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Ahhh, but now that just defiles the story itself. If I'm reading a tentacle rape manga and so far it's rape, but then half way through the victim gives in. Where's the rape?

I'd say in the parts prior to this half way point.

 

[Alias]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

I think you're outnumbered on this one, Vuki. I understand where you're coming from though. You're reading this hypothetical manga for story, not necessarily for the images, so when the entire story doesn't contain "rape" it ruins it for you. However, I think most people are looking at these mangas more for the images... so if some of the images contain "rape," it would be appropriate to tag the collection as containing "rape," since they wouldn't be bothered if they simply stopped looking at the pictures when they changed to something other than "rape."

 

[Ranger Princess]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

So say you read a manga where some chick is picked up by a tentacle monster, raped; then she gives in and starts wanting it and that's the entire story to the manga. I wouldn't tag it rape or consensual (as it has both during certain parts), I would tag it submission. Make sense? Tagging it with rape implies that the entire story is rape, but that can't be so since the end of the story is anything but.

Not to be picky or anything but...if your talking about a story, I don't think that she gives in and starts to like it means that it all of a sudden is not rape. It might even make it mooore like rape.

But if you take the pictures as being different stories in themselves then maybe one looks like rape and one looks like consentacle.

I think the tags are just supposed to be a helpful way to tell you what your going to find in the pictures. Everybody is looking for different content so having more tags helps get more viewers.

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

I suppose what I'm getting at, is why not just tag it submission for that type of content? Submission still implies rape, depending on the story I imagine. But since the basis for the hentai is the sex, that's how you would define a tag like submission. It's a one way thing: rape turned consent. You can't call consent turned rape a form of submission, as there's nothing to submit to. To me, the whole point of submission is to give in to the sex. So you sort of have to have rape to begin with anyways.

I just think it's reasonable. It still shows rape is involved, as not to false advertise to consensual lovers. But it also tells the tenty rape lovers that there's consensual to be expected. Fair game... =/

Not to be picky or anything but...if your talking about a story, I don't think that she gives in and starts to like it means that it all of a sudden is not rape. It might even make it mooore like rape.

In real life, definitely. But this is pure fantasy, so the rules bend and twist more than you can imagine. Take loli porn as an example. In real life, loli is definitely a crime. But in the fantasy art realm, the morals are bent. Minus the moral-retard people, the loli H-art is treated just like normal art porn situations between adults (unless it's actually supposed to be rape xD).

The same thing is happening in art with submission situations. People are bending the rules of rape due to the sex itself. In fact, that's probably the basis for all definitions in hentai. We don't apply real life morals (depending the story obviously), because real life morals follow the ultimate core values. We have a law against rape not because of sex, but because of human respect for one another. I think that applies for all morals.

But that changes in fantasy art because of the basis not being human respect, but sex.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Let me make another comparison: A hentai contains guro: brainfucking, dismemberment, et all. It's not all guro, and there's even some consensual sex thrown in, but it contains sizable amount of it, nevertheless. You're saying that it shouldn't be tagged as guro, since it's not all guro. So people, most of who don't like guro, start reading it, notice that it contains guro, and stop reading. Now imagine that you're one of those people. How does it make you feel?

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

No no no. Rape, submission and consent are like definitions for the entire set as a whole, but only if the whole amount is one big consistent story. If it's an artist CG set, then I would understand the mix of tags.

Guro is a tag that I don't see as an establishment for a whole story. The story could lead up to guro, but that still doesn't mean that tagging it guro overlaps rape, consent or whatnot.

Rape, consent and submission do overlap each other because they tell you what is the base ground for what you're looking at. Either rape is taking place, or consensual sex is taking place OR submission is taking place. It's not that they will take place, or have taken place, it's that they ARE taking place... make sense? You can only have one base ground.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Vuki... Not all submission is rape turned consent.

Here, take a look at what other stuff it can mean.

 

[Exofluke]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Vuki... Not all submission is rape turned consent.

Here, take a look at what other stuff it can mean.

I thought I mentioned that above? It can certainly mean other things, but the point is to submit to based on whatever the basis is. In the case I'm arguing, the basis is the sex. But this disregards anything else that the story may imply or whatever. But that's pretty rare. In most hentai stories, the basis for the story is the sex. Go figure. =P

Heck, I'll correct myself by mentioning that some artist CG sets do have stories as well. Take one of my favorites: Negurie.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

the basis is sex

...
...
I think I'm suppose to point out either that since it's hentai, that's presumed unless stated otherwise or that rape is sex.
...
...

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

Ok, if I'm understanding you Vuki, you're saying that:

Rape cannot be consentual, which implies that consentual sex and rape cannot be in the same doujin/manga, unless of course you have a transition where the subject submits, in which case the tag should be submission.

Is this what you mean?

I'd like to pint out that there are plenty of examples of hentai submission with no sex.

Now I guess the whole question boils down to whether its single images or not, as for a manga, you should tag it with all its contents. If it has rape, then after a little while the victim submits, then it was still rape, and hence the story still contains rape, and should be tagged accordingly.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

 

[DragonBlood87]

Re: Why can't people tag properly anymore?

That might depend on the story but you can really only have one core tag without contradicting yourself. That's how I see it at least.

Not necessarily; it wouldn't be very hard at all to make a story with two separate instances of sex, one consensual and one rape. That would not be entirely rape and not be entirely consensual, but it would contain no element of submission; the only accurate way to tag it would be to tag it as both rape and consensual.