Was looking through some threads today, and I swear to god about three of every four I clicked were patreons, which means I was either really (un?)lucky or there's a freaking flood of them. There's no tagging rules they're needing to follow, and even then tagging rules are somewhat vague, so I feel like this is kind of relevant again.
So you weren't checking every single one, but choosing some... Which means, those that caught your interest were patreon made. Spotting non-Japanese ones (because, let's be real - there are only those two - Japanese and West with latter often being fueled by patreon) isn't that hard.
I see a tons that have tag "incomplete" or "patreon" in name, lack DLsite code or not having Japanese-sounding name/Japanese symbols. Ironically, Japanese made are ones often missing a proper tag... So give us as screenshots, because I do not see what you see on first few pages.
Meet n Fuck series got a whole subforum dedicated to it, but with only 9 threads does it really deserve one? Meanwhile, it feels like we're drowning in RPG Maker games as well as people advertising their Patreon eroge. I feel like the need to sort things a bit better is a pretty good idea, though how they're sorted is up for discussion I figure. I'm also seeing a bizarre increase of stuff going for western or realistic artstyles, and while I know art style is supposed to be subjective, I kinda feel that H-Games and Porn-Games are usually separated based on whether they're eastern or western styles and design philosophies, so even if it's not technically not allowed, it feels out of place.
"it feels like", "I feel like", "I kinda feel that", "it feels" - How about you stop "feeling" and start thinking? It wouldn't cloud your judgment as much, because right now it's just: I don't like how things are done, because it not going along with my personal thing - no one cares.
So let's take this whole thing apart. MnF thing - I could agree in a way, but forum is old and was dedicated to hentai games made by WESTERN developer, MnF stuff at the time was a thing so it's not that strange they got their own section. It's just a leftover from the past. Now, yes there are a lot of Japense made RPG Maker games (more than western ones) and more from Japan in general. So you want to sort that out? Good, who is going to do that? You? I highly doubt that. But you can always surprise me and provide a list of ALL western made porn games with thread links and you can bet it would already be a starting point for mods to work with. Not that easy when you have to do something you demand someone else to do, right?
Art is and is not subjective. In terms of one used for porn games, those are not subjective. Yes, porn games are separated by Western and Japanese market... So are cartoons, normal games, comics, books... And your point being, you want to separate them because it fee fees out of place... Okay. So, is one type superior to another? What's the proper reasoning here? And no, "it feels out of place." is a shit reason.
Whether we need to change how title tags are done (ex: Starting titles with things like [Patreon], [RPGMaker], [Action], etc) to better convey what's in the thread, or whether some manner of subforum needs to be made and a massive sorting to be done, I get the feeling that more and more something needs to be done now before things get any more out of control. :/
There is only one possible tag to add and there is no requirement like that. Also, what about Japanese games that are supported with patreon? Now, we are mixing those two. Again, do that "massive" sorting yourself if it bothers you as much. Don't add more work to people that are probably already busy.
And "I get the feeling that" you are bitching for the sake of bitching. Nothing is out of control and won't be.
Kids those days are terrible, "give!", "do!", but when it comes to doing shit themselves, they don't want to as whining is easier.
I think part of the problem you've encountered (and many of us) is a lack of posting requirements for a game either in development, or maybe it's not even in proper development, or has a bare-bones description and/or demo and then having a patreon attached to it. I'm not in favor of policing people and how they spend their money, but rules to discourage a "barely bare minimal" post about a project that's barely off the ground might likely help alleviate the patreon problem. Also, I believe an adjusted tagging system is in the works, so your suggestions are definitely noted and likely welcome.
https://ulmf.org/forums/under-construction.14/
https://ulmf.org/threads/read-before-posting-community-made-games-go-here.2174/
"Only games that are being made by members of this forum are to be posted here. So Fairyfighting, Unholy Sanctuary, and other works in progress cannot be posted here."
Maybe this was a bad decision, maybe not.
But at the same time, keep in mind that there are Japanese made games that don't even have a demo, are in development and do have their own threads. Shit, it's often like that before game is released.
Now, this "patreon" problem you talk about does not exists if you think about it. This "issue" is self sorting. When no one is bumping the thread, there is no interest or dev simply doesn't do anything, threads are moved further and further away and I doubt a lot of people bother going past 10 pages (to whoever wants to jump in and point they do exactly that - good for you for not being "a lot of people", no one cares).
I think we're facing a two-front problem here. On the one hand, people generally share completed h-games from dlsite on the eastern side of things. On the western side, there are about a dozen unfinished/abandoned projects in development hell for every one mediocre finished game. I don't know whether it's a lack of motivation, lack of commitment, or simply realizing you actually have to produce something in exchange for currency. My point here is, we need a stricter set of rules to discourage potential scams/"early access" projects so every Tom, Dick, and Harry who figures themselves a developer with zero prior experience and prior report can't jump on the forums and share their "might be finished depending on my motivation and how many shekels you give me" project, only to either end up in "hiatus hell" or simply abandoned once the well dries up.
I will tell you what it is: A chance for easy buck. You think that even Japanese work ethics will be passed along if they were more into western stuff? Think again, it would be same shit all over.
Or here is a good idea: Don't support games/devs that do this shit and start paying for those Japanese games... And this is the best part I can latch onto and point out, from both sides.
There are people that support games via patreon, creating those lazy devs. But at the same time, there are people that won't throw a buck or two towards Japanese games which in the end, makes them think of us as "stealing monkeys". Good job, both sides are retarded and to blame.
Next, we do not need anything until I see all those whiners volunteering to do all that work. If you do, create a list, prepare everything so all is left for mods is execution of it (assuming it's not shit-made) and who knows, you may even be granted a mod to do it yourself. Also, what are the drawbacks of all those ideas I have seen here so far? Because a lot of them will have shit impact on whole section... If you ever whined at, for example, Youtube doing shit changes that weren't thought through, why do you want to do the same? There are some shit games, there are some ok ones, but this purity cleansing is nothing more than segregation based on country of origin as some people simply don't like it and can't handle it. Guess what? It's same reasoning as for racial puritans (did I go too far? Yup, fuck off). You don't like something, don't click it. There are more things you don't like than ones you like? Well, you are a minority, sucks to be you.
Obviously, developers who are actively working on their projects and show something of substance besides a couple enemies and a level (if that) would be exempt from punishment as long as they showed consistent progress (or some, at least). This would also have a (hopefully) positive effect on patreon, encouraging developers to be more open with their posts rather than locking stuff like walls of text behind a paywall. Basically, rules that encourage more transparency and developers to put more effort in before sharing their projects rather than expecting pay for a piece of cardboard and a crayon.
No, it won't have any effect, that's a delusional hope-thinking. Nothing will change as most patreon projects are supported by so called "normies", not gamers, not weebs, none of that. You are talking about poeple that do not know nothing and their best experience so far was a shitty mobile game.
Higher quality demand takes time, counted in years. Look at whole history of gaming market, now apply it to porn games and we are at the begging when big developer studios weren't a thing.
I dunno. We're not in the business of protecting consumer interests here. You don't do the proper research on who you're giving your money to then that's your problem.
Even if the dev is a manipulative shyster on the scale of Madoff , as long as they have something that qualifies as a game and are discussing (we'll say that cross posting changlogs doesn't count as that) it with some regularity they have just as much right to post as the rest of us.
On the same token if their thread is derailed with conversation about how they are a shyster, well we really shouldn't stop that from happening either.
I will do a little poke on our exchange earlier. See, if there are no fee fees included, you are pretty damn fucking reasonable.
Anyway, I completely agree and this is the best solution. You can't force some changes, people need to burn themselves if they do not wish to think for themselves.
