What ever happened to the reorganization?

[AngleBoi7]

-Should we refine the rules here?
=> Constant link begging tends to get on peoples' nerves to the point where negrepping happens the moment someone asks for a link or save file. Yet, there is no sticky specifically calling out these posts in order to prevent people from asking in the first place.

First, a rule change. link-begging, request threads, etc that can be answered in the "general request forum" results in a warning strike. Second offenses have posting privileges taken away for a month. Third offenses lose posting privileges for three months. Fourth offenses go to trial, and their peers can determine if they get a reduced sentence or get the ye ol' kick indefinitely with no chance for parole. Reduced sentences are determined by section staff. I'm just spitballing ideas at this point, so any improvements are welcome.

Some rules do need to be changed and/or reworded, like the links rule, it says asking the thread creator, but TC might have vanished and/or lost interest in the game(s), previous links in the thread were taken down etc... Spamming "Link Please" breaks other rules anyway.

Maybe something that makes some links usable by logged in users only could also be useful.

 

[Drix]

Things that makes sense.
Most people have Hentai Games have that set as bookmark, so keep that in mind.
Request thread subsection for Hentai Games forum. The Translation section gets plenty of views so it should work for Request Threads also.
Also the generic Hentai Finder thread shouldn't exist. Make a sticky thread for each forum instead. Remember where your population is dammit!
What kind of stupid name is Under Construction? Sounds like something to do with forum maintenance. Games in Development subsection makes sense for the patreon stuff.
If someone wants to make a hentai comic it should be in the Doujin section not "Under Construction", a movie would be a miracle by itself which be a shame to be relegated into nowhere.
Review forum is useless. Make Review subsections for every relevant forum.
Vanilla Hentai Movies is triple useless.
Unsorted Hentai should be renamed to Hentai General or cut and merged with Hentai.
English title translation or Romanji also makes sense, you can enforce that as post rules.
The japanese name is good when you come from Dliste to look for that specific game but as a comprehendable name it doesn't work.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Maybe do some changes to the Under Construction rules, there was a long discussion about Patreon stuff in the H-Games section.
Recommendations should probably be their own sub-section, otherwise, H0Games will end up with way too many stickied thread.

What kind of stupid name is Under Construction? Sounds like something to do with forum maintenance. Games in Development subsection makes sense for the patreon stuff.

Spoiler

Agreed. the Under Construction section needs some more thought put into it. It was originally made because there was a strange surge in people requesting community help to develop an h-game of their own, but that died down years ago. I've been repurposing it to also contain similar games where devs are showing up, announcing their game without any sort of proof of concept, but that's not very common either.

Funnily enough, the name is exactly that because Nunu and I were pretty sick of the surge of people just putting out those threads, so we gave them a crappy name to go with it. Going forward, I think a name change is in order, though maybe not Games in Development, as that might also imply ANY incomplete game, when I'm pretty sure people want to just stick the Patreon stuff in there.

The thing about moving the Patreon stuff in there, though, is that last time it was suggested that the games with devs actively participating in the threads and with a Patreon be moved into their own section, there was a bit of an outcry and accusations being thrown of trying to pigeonhole the devs so they would receive less attention. And while I don't particularly care whether people feel shunned or not, I still have to acknowledge that a lot of people, not just the devs themselves, thought that way and that there may be actual merit to their concerns.

Also, the hentai section itself is such a huge genre, and the main problem is that everyone has their own tastes/preferences. If you try to divide it into sections like above, you're only going to steer and divide the community to concentrated sections with a huge responsibility for admins/mods to mark and send Thread types of games to certain sections. In other words, you guys would have to constantly and manually correct people into sending genres/types into certain sections. This is only going to bring more stress and work for you guys. So that's why I suggested you should let the people organize it themselves. Let them do it rather than you guys doing it for them. And that's through Ignore Threads.

Spoiler

This was actually one of my main concerns about sorting by genre as well. It opens up a floodgate of maintenance work that frankly, wouldn't be feasible. I honestly do like the idea of sorting by genre, but the logistics would be a nightmare, especially down the road.

And this isn't even taking into account the amount of dissenting opinions on what any given game's "main" genre would be. Can you imagine the conversation on where to put Sengoku Rance? Or Erotical Nights? Talk about having discussions devolve into really dumb arguments.

The thing about the Ignore Threads function is that, while it's definitely a priority forum function, I don't think it solves the issue from a public standpoint. Just because one user doesn't see a mess, doesn't mean the mess isn't there. I do agree that a community effort would be a good idea for sorting by genre, if that were to happen. It's just that, after the initial work is done, the daily work for new threads to be sorted will still be there. I suppose if the threads were more organized to begin with, it'd encourage new threads to keep it that way. Kinda like how a clean street tends to stay clean because most people don't want to mess up something nice.

However I can't help thinking that most section aren't used because people just may have the hentai game section as their bookmark, and as such only see that section and it's subsection - hence the deserted hentai finder thread or all the game in development advertised in the hentai game section and not in the under construction.

Having a section dedicated to recommendation / search instead of putting it in a general talk about hentai seem a good idea but I fear that if they are separated, the recommendation / search one might just die.

And as Angleboi7 said, some thread may be worth a sticky more now than before the forum change - but finding them now may be difficult.

Things that makes sense.
Most people have Hentai Games have that set as bookmark, so keep that in mind.
Request thread subsection for Hentai Games forum. The Translation section gets plenty of views so it should work for Request Threads also.
Also the generic Hentai Finder thread shouldn't exist. Make a sticky thread for each forum instead. Remember where your population is dammit!

Spoiler

First off, it's interesting you both mentioned the H-Games section being set as a bookmark. Never really thought about that. I'll have to remember that.

I'd be pretty okay with putting Recommendation threads into its own section. Like the Nutaku games and the Meet n Fuck stuff, it'll really filter out stuff that most people don't want to see, but still remain in constant use for those who want it. My only concern is that it'll turn out like the current Under Construction section, where it'll have a good amount of activity at first, but then just die down and become obsolete. But that's really more something to be concerned about in the future; and really, it's more of a non-issue.

I'm not so sure about making a stickied Request thread for each section though. It depends on how the place would be re-organized. If, for instance, things get broken up to genres, I think making a Recommendation section would be enough. But if the place were organized into a "Games and Not-Games" kind of category, then I could see the value of it. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of having a REQUEST thread; it'd be a floodgate to mindless begging.

Maybe a bit more enforcement of the rule in place might have lead peoples to use the correct section and avoid having so much section dead.
Not that we should do it now, but something to keep in mind for after a change - if there is one.
[...]
All in all, I'm rather for a reorganization to make thing easier to find and navigate. Although it will probably need some active presence of mod at first (to remind of the new rule / place of thread to avoid the misplaced thread to end full of negative thumb ...).

PS : as a side note, It's probably a good occasion to add more tag to the existing list to make it easier to know what kind of game of thread is it.

-Should we refine the rules here?
=> Constant link begging tends to get on peoples' nerves to the point where negrepping happens the moment someone asks for a link or save file. Yet, there is no sticky specifically calling out these posts in order to prevent people from asking in the first place.

Some rules do need to be changed and/or reworded, like the links rule, it says asking the thread creator, but TC might have vanished and/or lost interest in the game(s), previous links in the thread were taken down etc... Spamming "Link Please" breaks other rules anyway.

Maybe something that makes some links usable by logged in users only could also be useful.

Spoiler

Haha. I'd be a horrible liar if I said I could do it myself. The problem is, I don't trust a single one of you motherfuckers to help. >:c

But yeah, I'm open to discussing rule changes as well.

What kinds of prefixes would people like to see?

I dunno about the link suggestion. I don't like the idea of exclusivity. I also don't like the idea of people making accounts just to link beg.

Well, I think we should first start with a few questions that should be answered:

- Should you add another subforum alongside MnF, Translations, and Online Games for discussions?
=> And broaden the section to include more subjects, making it "H-Game Discussions, Tech Help, & Compilations"?
=> Compilations would include about half the sticky threads
=> Adding tech help could help for various topics such as using CheatEngine or posting CheatEngine Tables, applying translations, and using text hookers (that last one being something I still haven't figured out to this very day). Possibly also for posting save files for various games since those posts tend to be common questions in each individual thread
=> Active community members could post compilation threads for sharing their own saves and go for shameless forum trophy hoarding?

-How active are the other sections? (Ex. How many new threads of posts happen per day? The H-game section gets about 2-3 new pages of posts per day.)
=> I personally feel that other sections have their own identity and would suffer more if they lost their identity. At the very least, movies/animations should remain the same. Maybe "mangas" and "cg sets" should be their own section, possibly including still images?

Spoiler

-I actually really like the "H-Game Discussions, Tech Help, & Compilations" idea. In fact, going along with the earlier suggestion of a Recommendation section, that could probably encompass all discussion not directly pertaining to a game. In my opinion, that'd probably be the most optimal way of organizing all of the miscellaneous conversations.

Honestly, the other places are almost completely dead. Even if they were to combine all together, I still feel like the conversations would be really dry. But maybe that's just fine; this place pretty much specializes in H-games at this point, so there's no need to dedicate so much effort on something nobody is going to use. For the sake of organization, I'd like to see them lumped together, but leaving them be or just minor changes would be fine as well.

If someone wants to make a hentai comic it should be in the Doujin section not "Under Construction", a movie would be a miracle by itself which be a shame to be relegated into nowhere.
Review forum is useless. Make Review subsections for every relevant forum.
Vanilla Hentai Movies is triple useless.
Unsorted Hentai should be renamed to Hentai General or cut and merged with Hentai.
English title translation or Romanji also makes sense, you can enforce that as post rules.
The japanese name is good when you come from Dliste to look for that specific game but as a comprehendable name it doesn't work.

Spoiler

I think consolidation is a good idea. A lot of the useless sections were experiments that were never removed when they proved to be pointless. Having an Other H-Media section would be a good start to being a catch-all for stuff like other h-content that people make.

I don't think a review section should really be there at all. If people are going to write a review, they aren't normally going to make a formal thread for all their thoughts; they'd probably just hop in the relevant thread, say their piece, and leave. That said, it's worth considering.

I was considering a merge with the general Hentai section, but one thing that struck me was the organization of the RP section. They don't have any threads in the general RP section; just sections and sub-sections. I think that's a lot cleaner. So going with the earlier suggestion of making a general discussion section for the H-Games section, I think a Hentai General section is also a good idea.

And agreed with the names. I do have a small concern that people will just see that rule and decide to toss the Japanese title into a machine translator, and call it the official English title, but that can be ironed out on a case-by-case basis.

Format could be like [RJ number] "English or Romanji - (Kanji)". Not sure about making it a hard rule though. There are some threads that encompass multiple games from the same author. And honestly, for some authors, it's probably better to have it all in one thread.

So basic summary so far of things a couple people seems to agree on or seem like universally good additions:

• Conslidate the useless sections
  • H-Movies, Vanilla H-Movies, Doujins are mashed into their own place?
  • Unsorted Hentai becomes Hentai General?
• New sub-sections for H-Games section
  • "H-Game Discussions, Tech Help, Recommendations, & Compilations" ?
  • Under Construction section moved here, renamed to Games in Development?
• Reevaluate, reinforce rules
  • Rules on link begging fleshed out/generalized more?
  • Posting standards for titles, OPs?
• Miscellaneous improvements
  • More prefix tags for thread titles?
  • Forum tools like ignore threads, search algorithm improvements?

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

I can't really disagree on any of that. I think if we make a day of it (and by "we" I mean the janitors/mods) the multitude of relevant sections can be put up fairly quickly. I've given an outline as to some revised rules to enforce (mostly to do with link-begging, feel free to pick my brain if you're inclined), and others seem pretty open to it. Only real issues I have:

-I don't think we need more tags. I think a section for requests with the "request" tag or maybe just a pinned general would be fine.
-There should be a 3-week rule on OP's/threads. If an OP/dev doesn't update in 3-8 weeks, the tag for "in-development" switches to "hiatus/dead" according to how long it's been left without an update. Maybe 3-8 weeks is classified as "hiatus" and 4-6 months is classified "dead." After 9 months to a full year, the thread is locked to avoid necroposting?
-I think you could have a section for H-content, then divide them into separate sub-sections, and then give them their relevant "help/tech support/etc" subsections. This helps compartmentalize things a lot better and makes it so if someone is looking for a certain thing in a certain section, they don't need to wade through x amount of movies, games, etc to get to what they want. I would say "unsorted hentai" is given a two-weeks period for the OP/developer to classify the content they're showing or whatever. Failure to classify it gets it locked and archived.
-"Archived content" can be a new section for stuff that's either classified as "dead", "unsorted", etc. It can be re-opened upon request by the OP/developer, and only if the update or whatever is deemed significant enough to warrant re-opening for discussion.

In terms of some rules adjustments:

-If an OP opens a thread and doesn't update for 3-8 weeks (or whatever you guys determine), then no action. Second offenses warrant a moderate warning. Third offenses are a pre-suspension warning. Fourth offenses are a 2-week suspension from posting. After that, you lose posting rights on a 3-month basis for failure to update the threads you open over a period of time. This is mostly to discourage people from opening 10+ threads sharing a game that's in-development, or some other content that isn't yet released. Of course, content that's either consistently receiving updates or is complete are exempt from the rules as long as discussion isn't just circling into oblivion.
-Constant sharing of stuff that can be considered "unsorted" will result in a strong warning. Second offense is a suspension from posting OP's. Third offenses are a warning and OP-posting suspension. Fourth offense is a 2-month suspension from posting in general. Fifth offenses result in 3-month ban for spamming. Repeat offenses can be punished as staff sees fit following those strikes.
-On the subject of "spam-posting", the punishment procedures I posted a page back should be sufficient, although staff may feel inclined to punish more to their own determination.

This is all just suggestions to be considered. By no means am I demanding or asking for these new rules; but, if the staff find them sufficient, I'll be content.

 

[AngleBoi7]

H-Games get a lot of sub-sections/sub-forum but lose "general posting", kinda like the Role Play Section.

@ Ninja_Named_Bob, some devs warn that they don't update very often.

 

[namomo]

And here I'm still waiting for the "hide thread" button to come back.
Is that really something too much to asked for?

 

[Bryanis]

@namomo there a place to ask for those thing - the forum development.
https://ulmf.org/forums/forum-development.19/

There's even a thread there asking for that function to be back :
https://ulmf.org/threads/ignore-thread-function.11781/

Otherwise, when re reading what I said earlier, I may well not have express myself clearly (sorry).
When I was talking about more enforcing of the rule, I think it could be be separated in two main point :
1) daily life of the forum, it would be better to have members remind peoples and have admin enforce rule (when needed with the appropriate action) rather than having flaming thread. Nothing is more depressing than getting on the forum after a good night sleep / hard day work and see a thread with 2 flaming answers and 354 neg rep for someone who didn't follow the rule without one person kindly explaining the mistake.
I mean, who never ever made a mistake ? (of course, mistake and plain trolling / willful breaking of rule are different things).

2) IF There is some change in the forum with new sections, change of where to post... many peoples WILL post in the wrong place due to habit and / or not having read the new rules. This will need a period of gentle enforcing of the rule to Shepherd the members into the new way without resorting to flaming by other member and heavy sanction.

As for potential new tag... Haven't really though about it yet. But the first thing will be to incite thread maker to update the tag (uncompleted -> full game, WIP -> finish....).
If I think 2s about the main used section...
Translation... We may add something like "Partial / Full - abandoned / dead" to avoid too much necroing. We can also have one like "Tool" to easily found translation tool thread... maybe ?

For the Hentai game, maybe some more different tag to make search by genre since the forum isn't having only rpg maker game.
There quite the number of side scroller / plateformer so why not a tag for them.
Maybe transform RPG Maker in RPG or add another one for wolf RPG ( and there also Unity based rpg appearing so that would mean Unity rpg for tag...).

There some few thread about illusion's and other big game (micomisomi, a few ADV like RANCE...), put them all in the Other / full game or imagine new tag ?

If we make some change (or event not) we may think about "recommendation", "request","discussion" tag to easily sort through the many thread.

There also more and more thread about game WIP by their own dev, most using patreon. Should we keep what we have avaiable or come up with thing like "patreon WIP", "patreon Full" kind of tag ?

Sorry, it's not really well made for a list. More a kind of list of direction of reflection about it.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

@ Ninja_Named_Bob, some devs warn that they don't update very often.

That's part of the problem imo. I can accept that people get busy (I role-play with a regular on another site) and can't always update, ergo the "3-8 weeks" thing. 4 weeks/3 months is probably a lot more acceptable, but devs need to be held to a standard of regular/semi-regular updates so shits don't devolve into "dev is shit" "no, u" back and forth's. That's my main concern, above anything else.

 

[super_slicer]

So basic summary so far of things a couple people seems to agree on or seem like universally good additions:

• Conslidate the useless sections
  • H-Movies, Vanilla H-Movies, Doujins are mashed into their own place?
  • Unsorted Hentai becomes Hentai General?
• New sub-sections for H-Games section
  • "H-Game Discussions, Tech Help, Recommendations, & Compilations" ?
  • Under Construction section moved here, renamed to Games in Development?
• Reevaluate, reinforce rules
  • Rules on link begging fleshed out/generalized more?
  • Posting standards for titles, OPs?
• Miscellaneous improvements
  • More prefix tags for thread titles?
  • Forum tools like ignore threads, search algorithm improvements?

Only thing I don't find palatable is Games in Development (Fpalace has a sub called Game Development and I think that title fits a bit better, lol funny that a two letter word can make that much of a difference). If it serves the same function as Under Construction then I'm fine with it but with the title it sounds like you're separating finished and unfinished games. If we come to the consensus that that is the way we want to sort the H-games section then that's fine.

Honestly it's not that I feel that patreons SHOULDN'T be in some sort of "in development" section like that, but that 1. It creates unnecessary work for mods moving threads and 2. I refuse to give in to the demands the small yet vocal group of people who are butthurt over patreon.

 

[Fenril]

Honestly, I'm bothered by the Patreon threads because most of them exist to redirect traffic so they can get funds. In fact, they typically just copy and paste their cover page here and don't even bother communicating beyond that. They're just "talking at" us instead of "talking with" us. They're just ads, not threads.

 

[habisain]

Bit of an out-there idea (and one which is perhaps impractical to implement), but one thing that could improve the forum substantially is pairing a Wiki page to threads. My line of thinking is that there are a lot of threads which are essentially abandoned by the thread starter, which makes it difficult to organise important information on the thread considering that a substantial number of people check the first post and then give up and bump the thread for info instead of searching. Having a prominently linked wiki type page (or indeed, turning the first post into a wiki-type page) would make it so that information could be organised better (things like DLSite info, frequently asked questions, and although I'm generally against piracy, I'll admit that download links would probably end up in there as well).

As I said though, no idea how practical that is to implement, or if it's aligned with the idea that ULMF is forum as opposed to a Wiki.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

You have a two-fold issue with the wiki page thing.

1) Some(?) of the games have maybe a basic wikipedia page, and maybe a wikimedia page/something on an adult wikia somewhere. You would need to go through the content week to week, keeping up with patreon/developer updates (which can get expensive, among other things), and knowing enough about the content you're compiling a page on to make it worth reading to others. It's like making a dozen request threads to ask for different content rather than doing what the rest of the forum usually does and googling it. At one point, you run into the issue of having a thousand wikia's open and maybe a fractional minority actually interested in reading it.

2) Who would manage such a page, or who would take the time to make a wikia-like OP to detail the in's-and-out's of each game? It's a lot of work to manage that kind of thing, not to mention any time a game is cancelled or a dev scraps the project to start over, it needs to be recorded for posterity reasons. At one point, it becomes too repetitious to constantly work a wikia page over and over and over just to appease a very fractional group.

 

[habisain]

Just to clarify - what I'm suggesting is not intended as a replacement for a proper Wiki page, and not is it intended to be a proper Wiki in and of itself. It's intended to be for things which are important to the thread which we would like to be centrally indexed, but cannot be centrally indexed in a forum structure, and is resilient to the thread starter going AWOL. It's basically so that newcomers to the thread have a place which they can look at for important stuff, like links to important info.

 

[DarkFire1004]

To the Patreon issue:

Spoiler

Agreed with Fenril on all points. There's been an alarming trend of people using this place as free advertising for their game lately. We just had a Japanese artist make a thread, advertising a game, immediately admitted it looked like Monster Girl Island, and the only demo he had was an animation on his Patreon. And right now I have to download a SIMPSONS h-game to see if it's actually a proof of concept and not just random crap to get by the rules (it isn't, by the way). I know I harp a lot on the whole "Make this place a discussion-oriented place" thing, but I'm not an idiot; I can see the difference between a thinly veiled advertisement, and a thinly veiled advertisement that has at least indicates the devs actually want to hear the input of other people.

Quite honestly, I'd really like to delete those threads. I don't feel comfortable letting this place just be a platform for advertisement, when the developer probably isn't going to contribute to the rest of the forum. But they aren't really spamming the place, aren't making threads with minimal to no info (Unless you don't like them copy-pasting their Patreon info to the thread), and they're offering a proof of concept of their work so far. In short, they're doing nothing wrong. So whether I feel comfortable or not, they're allowed to stay here.

This is why I'd like to move these kinds of threads to their own space. A centralized place where these "Patreon games" are gives those interested a place to find new upcoming games with devs who are actually in the thread, while simultaneously catering to the people who don't like it by giving them a place to ignore. It'd help with moderating too; people who're criticizing the devs for legitimate reasons vs just disliking Patreon would be much easier to spot. As of now, I don't have any rules about talking about the merits of Patreon, but if there were such a section, I'd definitely make a rule to stop that sort of thing to keep discussion focused only on the dev's game and not their Patreon model.

To the Wiki idea:

Spoiler

Agreed with Bob on all points. The sheer amount of work involved to set up, maintain, and moderate something like that would be absolutely insane. And to add to that, wikis are usually best used when the subject in question has a large amount of information that needs to be organized. Making a wiki per game would be, what, 2-5 pages? There's just not enough info for a given H-game to even warrant that kind of effort. Maybe for something like the Nutaku games, sure. Maybe even for stuff like the Rance series or large scale games like Future Fragments or Guilty Hell. But what're you going to do about the average game? How much could you really write about the Bitch Exorcist Rio games? A walkthrough, a character page, and maybe some cheats?

However, I'm not opposed to having a centralized index of info for a given game. I forgot what thread it was in, or what context I suggested it in, but I think people really underestimate the power of Google Docs. You could easily achieve the same thing with that. It's centralized, is easily obtainable, much less work to maintain, can be contributed by any community member, very organized, can be easily inserted to the OP just by PMing a moderator, and doesn't need the already-busy forum admins to implement an extremely large new feature that may or may not actually be used. Heck, I could probably write a sticky with a Google Docs template for people to use if needed.

@namomo there a place to ask for those thing - the forum development.
https://ulmf.org/forums/forum-development.19/

There's even a thread there asking for that function to be back :
https://ulmf.org/threads/ignore-thread-function.11781/

Otherwise, when re reading what I said earlier, I may well not have express myself clearly (sorry).
When I was talking about more enforcing of the rule, I think it could be be separated in two main point :
1) daily life of the forum, it would be better to have members remind peoples and have admin enforce rule (when needed with the appropriate action) rather than having flaming thread. Nothing is more depressing than getting on the forum after a good night sleep / hard day work and see a thread with 2 flaming answers and 354 neg rep for someone who didn't follow the rule without one person kindly explaining the mistake.
I mean, who never ever made a mistake ? (of course, mistake and plain trolling / willful breaking of rule are different things).

2) IF There is some change in the forum with new sections, change of where to post... many peoples WILL post in the wrong place due to habit and / or not having read the new rules. This will need a period of gentle enforcing of the rule to Shepherd the members into the new way without resorting to flaming by other member and heavy sanction.

As for potential new tag... Haven't really though about it yet. But the first thing will be to incite thread maker to update the tag (uncompleted -> full game, WIP -> finish....).
If I think 2s about the main used section...
Translation... We may add something like "Partial / Full - abandoned / dead" to avoid too much necroing. We can also have one like "Tool" to easily found translation tool thread... maybe ?

For the Hentai game, maybe some more different tag to make search by genre since the forum isn't having only rpg maker game.
There quite the number of side scroller / plateformer so why not a tag for them.
Maybe transform RPG Maker in RPG or add another one for wolf RPG ( and there also Unity based rpg appearing so that would mean Unity rpg for tag...).

There some few thread about illusion's and other big game (micomisomi, a few ADV like RANCE...), put them all in the Other / full game or imagine new tag ?

If we make some change (or event not) we may think about "recommendation", "request","discussion" tag to easily sort through the many thread.

There also more and more thread about game WIP by their own dev, most using patreon. Should we keep what we have avaiable or come up with thing like "patreon WIP", "patreon Full" kind of tag ?

Sorry, it's not really well made for a list. More a kind of list of direction of reflection about it.

Spoiler

1) So I'm going to let everybody in on a secret. My definition of flaming and trolling are a LOT more lax than most others. I get lots of reports about that sort of thing, but when I look at the post in question, it's not even actual trolling. It's somebody having a legitimate discussion, but getting heated over disagreements. Maybe even some insults hurled. That's not outright flaming or trolling to me. It's when nothing productive or meaningful comes out of the discussion and has devolved into personal attacks that I actually step in.

And to your point about the flaming due to rule breaking, I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I do like that the community is self-moderating a lot of the times. Public shaming is sometimes an extremely powerful tool to keep the peace. And it's not like the rules are very convoluted. They aren't difficult to find either. I have very little sympathy for people who break rules that are VERY clearly displayed in the STICKIED thread, which is why I usually don't do anything when there's a flogging of a lurker doing something wrong. In my opinion, posting on a forum really requires that you do your research on the culture and etiquette there. And a majority of the time, I see those "flaming" answers responding to people who have never contributed to the forum, drop by a thread and ask for a link, then disappear again. It's a two-way street; if you don't want people flaming you, then understand the underlying do's and don'ts before saying something wrong.

On the other hand, yes, sometimes people get out of hand. Sometimes the shaming goes too far. But that's why you report the issue. If it's actually bad, then we'll step in.

2) Absolutely. If/when there's a major change to the H-Section, there will always be a period of leniency to allow people to adjust.

3) If we don't go with sorting by genre, at the very least, there should definitely be new tags. What they are though, is something the community will need to come to agreement with. However, I'm not so sure about using the tag system to sort through literally everything. One of the problems this place currently has is that everything is piled up in the H-Game section, making it near impossible to navigate. I'd rather they be pre-filtered into their own section than just have a single colored text dictate what is what. So while having a Recommendation or Request tag might be nice, it doesn't really solve the overarching problem.

 

[AngleBoi7]

Spoiler

3) If we don't go with sorting by genre, at the very least, there should definitely be new tags. What they are though, is something the community will need to come to agreement with. However, I'm not so sure about using the tag system to sort through literally everything. One of the problems this place currently has is that everything is piled up in the H-Game section, making it near impossible to navigate. I'd rather they be pre-filtered into their own section than just have a single colored text dictate what is what. So while having a Recommendation or Request tag might be nice, it doesn't really solve the overarching problem.

Maybe something like the old tag system (not talking title tags/labels) could help.

still want an answer to this.

 

[DarkFire1004]

Maybe something like the old tag system (not talking title tags/labels) could help.

still want an answer to this.

You know, I actually had no idea people used that legitimately. Every time I saw that, it usually had joke tags or not enough tags. Also, I brought that up a little earlier in the other wall of text I wrote.

I was considering a merge with the general Hentai section, but one thing that struck me was the organization of the RP section. They don't have any threads in the general RP section; just sections and sub-sections. I think that's a lot cleaner. So going with the earlier suggestion of making a general discussion section for the H-Games section, I think a Hentai General section is also a good idea.

So yes, I agree that the H-Section area should be cleaned up and moved into a section for general discussion.

 

[Fenril]

I should probably make a footnote here, but Patreon isn't the only platform of its kind, it's just the most prominent. Japan has their own, called Enty, and DLSite now has Ci-en (or however you spell it). If we make one section for those types of threads, it should include all of them.

 

[AngleBoi7]

You know, I actually had no idea people used that legitimately. Every time I saw that, it usually had joke tags or not enough tags. Also, I brought that up a little earlier in the other wall of text I wrote.

So yes, I agree that the H-Section area should be cleaned up and moved into a section for general discussion.

Well, the search feature prevent use of short words and common words, so the tags could have some use... maybe pre-defined ones.

was more thinking H-Games could becomes like that since it would affect all type of threads, not just game dev ones.

Maybe Hentai becomes its own thing like ULMF, Main and Forum Games?

 

[DarkFire1004]

I should probably make a footnote here, but Patreon isn't the only platform of its kind, it's just the most prominent. Japan has their own, called Enty, and DLSite now has Ci-en (or however you spell it). If we make one section for those types of threads, it should include all of them.

So, I guess I need to stop generalizing when I say Patreon. When I say that, what I actually mean is threads where the dev is the OP and is advertising their game to the forum. If somebody makes a thread about an upcoming game, but the dev isn't in there, I don't feel it should be categorized the same, even if they have a Patreon/Enty. That's because the thread usually becomes an actual discussion between people, not the dev using this place as another platform to tell us about their game.

I don't care if a dev is using some Patreon-esque platform or not. I care if they're coming in here like we're a billboard for them. There's a huge difference between when Sourjelly showed up in the Anthophobia thread, talking with his fans, and this. Granted, not all devs do this. Some really do talk in other threads, mingle with the community, and all that jazz. But there it's a disproportionate ratio, and I think it needs to be addressed.

Maybe Hentai becomes its own thing like ULMF, Main and Forum Games?

I'm... Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[AngleBoi7]

I'm... Not sure what you mean by that.

The front page.