Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Only times I try to mention any breathing is for scent... I think.

And forgive my RP newbness, but what is meta gaming?

 

[Shrike7]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Metagaming is bringing knowledge you yourself have and having your character act on it, even though there is no way your character would know of it. Make sense?

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

I didn't really think anyone was mentioning doing those things, or metagaming for that matter. It was more like a reminder because it just happened to occur of me all of a sudden.

For scent you would still intake air, you just wouldn't exhale afterwards.

Like Shrike said it's using player knowledge in place of character knowledge, for example you all know that Ronny is a Lasombra, but your characters don't. You've all been doing a very good job of not metagaming though so meh.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

I've had Eve only act human-ish when she's surprised or going for a victim. Though i have managed to keep from writing her blushing, which is a feat, for me xD

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Yeah I keep wanting to have characters sigh, but thankfully I keep avoiding it myself.

Technically you can do all the blinking, breathing, etc. if you spend a blood point to masquerade. Which you also have to remember to do if you happen to be around the food. Which is why you need to try to retain your humanity, otherwise it gets harder to look human. No wonder they're all grouchy, huh.

 

[Shrike7]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Personally, I think vampires breathe almost as often as humans do, simply from all the talking they get themselves into. Things like scent and such work the same way. It's one of the things I don't think White Wolf thought through as much as they could have.

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Yeah I would agree there, at least with some of the things like breathing. It might not be breathing the way a normal person does it, but it's still essentially breathing.

The one that kind of bugs me is that if vampires don't sweat or do other similar functions, their skin would be really, really dry. I guess that would make seducing your prey out, since who wants to kiss or touch period for that matter a really dry, cold person. (also known as a dead body)

So long as no one tries to stand around on a corner looking tough with a lit cigarette hanging out of their mouth, I'll be happy.

 

[Copper]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Actually, cigarettes are great for vampires in the winter. So are scarves. Because people tend to notice that "hey, you can't see your breath!" Yes, you have to take in air to talk, but if you're just standing or sitting around, natural default (unless you've spent points or have proper merits) is that you don't breathe, but it would probably have to take a very, very observant person to notice that your chest isn't moving, unless, you know, you were pressed up against them or something.

I have Izzy sigh, actually, given that she's still fresh enough to think about doing it and it's a great way to get your emotions across without saying anything. And I think you blink. It's mostly just the whole breathing and having the corpse-like chill that's a constant thing. Scent, though, is another matter. As Ronny put it, vamps don't sweat. They don't have a body odor (for good or ill.) A lupine would probably be able to pick a vamp out of the crowd by virtue of the fact that they don't smell "human." We got around this in our Larp by using cologne and things like that to mask the fact that there were no other scents on some of the vamps.

As for the dry skin, that's what moisturizer's for *laughs*

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Would you two quit countermanding everything I say, I know you've played longer than me but I would prefer to do it this way. You don't breath (at least not like the kine do), you don't blink, you are cold, and you are pale. Unless you spend a blood point which fixes all of that most of the way, you'll still feel a little cold but not corpse cold. If it's cold enough to see peoples breath the blood point helps there as well. You do still intake air when you speak and sniff, but it's not breathing like the kine do. Sighing is fine actually as far as I'm concerned, since it's pretty much the same as talking. No using cigarettes. You're afraid of fire though a match/lighter probably won't send you into Roetschrek, you're still going to flinch away from it. Which probably isn't going to help you blend in.

Now vampires do have a scent, but not a body odor as Copper pointed out. The reason that Lupines and the other kindred can pick you out is because their supernatural senses can smell the blood, which you partake of regularly.

Yes, you're senses are better than the average human, just not daredevil-like which is what Auspex 1 does. You also feel as though you are stronger and faster than you did as a human. This is because you don't get tired like a human does so it seems as though you are stronger and faster, when in reality you're just capable of doing things longer. Potence and Celerity actually do make you stronger and faster. Kindred bodies do not bruise or break like a humans, so all bashing damage is halved. Once again Fortitude goes beyond the normal limits for a kindred.

Good lord, did I just type out a freaking book. I hope that all came out right, so any questions, comments, concerns? I know I said not to countermand me, but if any of that really bothers Shrike or Copper. Go ahead and say so.

 

[Shrike7]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Nope, I think I agree with pretty much all of it, I just figure I wasn't specific enough with my last post there. For me, breathing is the simple in-and-out of air from the lungs, which is also included in speaking. My last post there was half info, half a jibe at how most vampires never seem to shut up Scent doesn't specifically require an exhale, but speaking requires both, simply because you need something to push past the vocal cords in order to make sounds.

I have maybe six months of play longer than you, so I am far from all-knowing. I have no problem talking about stuff like this, one of my favourite pastimes is taking game systems and poking at what I feel they did wrong. XD

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Yeah I tend to get bossy and overprotective when I'm running things, doesn't matter if it's a game or my job. Probably just the military leadership style in me, oddly enough it probably would make me a Lasombra or Ventrue type in real life now that I think about it.

So basically breathing and breath intake/exhale are different things, though very similar. So yeah White Wolf probably could have worded it better in the books.

They do seem to talk a lot though don't they, which reminds me of a funny use for obtenebration I read about somewhere on the internet. Basically you summon a shadow tentacle from inside a kindred who won't shut up (this is assuming you have no light and would therefore have shadows inside of you). Expand the tentacle so that no air can go move past their vocal chords, and you can have the last word in any argument. It's also perfectly perverted enough for the forum.

I actually like to discuss gaming systems and finding their faults to. They all have them after all. Oddly enough a lot of the faults I have with V:TM were addressed in V:TR, though V:TR has entirely different faults too.

 

[Copper]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

*shrugs* I think blinking was the only thing I countered, really, but that could just be me. That, and, given older rules and the like, I just think either someone would have to watch for it or something specific would have to happen between them for the average joe to pick a vamp out of a crowd. I think that's part of the reason why they gave ghouls a skill called "sniping," which allowed them to be able to pick up on the fact that someone was Kindred in a crowd of people. But then again, that rule comes from Libre des Ghoules, which (in my opinion) is one of the most piss poor put together books they ever slapped out. And I'm not saying the guy sitting right next to the vampire in the bar, too, when I say "in a crowd," I'm talking, like, in a classroom of 30 or something. Then again, that's just my take on things and it's utlimately up to you how you want it to go.

And, well, VtR could be considered 4th edition endgame Vampire, I can see how some things got a rehash. Have the book myself, haven't really gone over it, on account of not really having anyone to do White Wolf with outside here.

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Well, like I said I get overprotective when I'm running things. You probably weren't countermanding me, I just felt like you were when I first wrote it. No wonder I can't get a girlfriend, I'm like this with everyone. So if it came out wrong I'm sorry.

I agree even with the not breathing and other things, an average joe would have a very hard time picking out a vampire from a crowd. A ghoul I would imagine would have an easier time, just because they are more in the know as to vampires.

Now to see if I can explain my reasoning coherently, granted this is really all my opinion of things and others probably view things differently. It's supposed to be a game of personal horror, which I don't think they conveyed very well with the way they made things. To me personal horror means that the bad guy in the game is not the Sabbat, nor the Camarilla, Anarchs, Antediluvians, Caine, what have you. The bad guy is supposed to be you.

I'm not really so much worried about if humans can pick you out of a crowd. I'm more worried that if you seem to human to yourself, it would become less of a struggle within and more of a struggle against the Sabbat and the powers that be. Yeah you do have to struggle against them, but that should be secondary or an offshoot of the struggle within yourself.

Now did any of that make sense for why I want things the way I said, or am I full of bullshit again?

 

[Copper]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

I think if you'd have caught me a day before, I'd have been on the defensive with it. As it stood, I was reading it with a clear head (read "Copper was not PMSing") and didn't figure on it coming out as an attack. Hence the shrug. That, and I'd have taken it to PMs instead of going on here.

And yes, what you're saying makes sense. Admittedly, that's why Vamps have humanity ratings (or at least they did...) A low humanity score meant you were more of a monster. A high score meant you still thought and acted very human-like, but at the same time, you had more of a struggle. If a character with, say, 5 humanity killed the human they were feeding on, it'd probably be a "Meh. Guy probably deserved it" reaction. A character with 7+ would probably freak out and unless they did something to rectify the situation, would probably *lose* humanity in that case.

Truthfully, the horror is all in how you choose to run it. For some STs, yeah, the bad guy *is* the Sabbat or the Elders or the Garou or what have you. For others, VtM is more about intrigue and behind the scenes manipulations. Maybe it's a little bit of both. It's all in how *you* chose to craft the story and what you're saying makes sense with how you're planning on steering the campaign. Short answer, no, Ronny, you're not full of it.

 

[Shrike7]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Pretty much made sense to me. I think white wolf did an okay job of it, but most games tend to run it in a different direction. Can't really find the words to explain how or why right now, but they may occur to me sometime later.
The Camarilla and the Sabbat are really just two extensions of ways Vampires try to keep from losing themselves to their own personal horror (the beast) and becoming mindless monsters. It's easier to fight it the closer you are to it, but the... Standard of living, I guess you could call it, is much worse that way.

I dunno.

 

[dmronny]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Ha fooled you I am full of shit, I just wasn't full of it this time is all. I am only trying to steer it that way of course, I will follow you girls and guy wherever you want it to go of course. Never thought I would say that sentence on the internet.

My problem with the Sabbat/Camarilla thing is the way most of the books are written it all seems to be more from the Camarilla viewpoint of things. Of course I've only looked through about four of the books, so I could be wrong. Then again maybe the Camarilla just have better PR guy's than the Sabbat do, it is kind of hard to paint a good portrait of a Tzimisce after all.

Also three days in a row of overtime sucks, especially when one is on Thanksgiving.

 

[Copper]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Hope you at least got holiday pay to go with that overtime.

And, well, for the longest time, Camarilla *were* all that you could play, so there's more material out about them than the Sabbat. Not to mention the Cam's are the ones that are out to uphold the Masquerade and blend in with human society, ruling from the background and all that and the Sabbat mentality is more "I'm the top of the food chain, and baby, you're the food." ((Name the quote for brownie points.)) It's a little hard to play a "role-playing game of gothic horror" when the Sabbat's idea of having a good time usually involves someone winding up dead and usually in a very creative manner.

Reminds me of the movie my friends and I wanted to do once. Kind of a "Most Dangerous Game" kind of thing, with some poor schlub of a human trying to get away from a pack of vampires in order to win some big prize, only to reach the end and find out that the prize for surviving was getting Embraced. Pity we never had the money or the means. Would have been interesting, I think.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Dude. The "Most Dangerous Game" was an short story.

Oh, and I found the quote, but I'd never read the book,someone had just told it to me before. rofl

 

[Copper]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

Yes, I know. Which is why I put it in quotes when I mentioned it. And you'll have to tell me where the quote originated from if you want your brownie points, hehehe.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: Laws of the Night OOC and Discussion

this silly thing missed the word "epic" in that sentence. It was an epic short story. -fails-