Dark Gate OOC Thread

[xgkf]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

Though, some monsters you simply can't summon more than 1 of without taking several days off for your character.

I'm perfectly fine with setting a hard summon cap on the more powerful or specialized demons. I would just like the cost of summoning them to be based on a tier system like the example I came up with, and to allow for multiples of lesser demons to be summoned at once, should the need or want to arise in-game (with additional EP cost, as I suggested), just to offset the simple fact that they're weaker.

You can set those caps/tiers/costs however you want to, of course. You know more about the overall balance of your own game than I do, I just tried to come up with a formula to help more easily implement and balance system like that.

Edit: Actually, are the 'tiers' of demons in your DG3 WIP thread more-or-less what you intend them to ultimately be? Because if so, I can alter my formula and add caps so that it reflects the new tiers (I based the current one on the DG2 demons since that's what I had to work with at the time).

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

The groups currently set up are arranged by differing additional costs, not tiers. Here's a quick breakdown:
1) Soldier, Stalker or Goblin
-Melee shields, basically. All three are tier one, but have different combat focuses. They'll still require sex, just as before, and they can all get ruled 63'ed with a healthy case of sexual dimorphism easily enough.
2) Succubus or Sorceress
-Magic users. Both are tier 2. I don't expect their costs to change either. They can be of either sex, and the male versions would just be incubus or sorcerer.
3) Knight
-Tier 3 melee beatstick with spirit powers. I actually haven't decided on their price yet, but I was thinking something along the lines of . They can be male or female without any trouble.
4) Great Darkwalker, Nightmare, or Hellhound
-Tier 3 beatsticks that you can also use as mounts, or for other purposes if you can think them up.
5) Demon Lord
-Tier 4, with the same to-be-decided-in-game cost. Sex can be either or, and the price wouldn't change with the sex of the character.
6) Nightmare Lord
-Tier 4, but more powerful than the above. These are always male, but I also haven't decided on their extra price yet. Summoning more than one of these at a time would probably not be allowed. Most likely.

Uneven Trade: I would make the argument that it gives similar benefits to Sudden Strike, only it ignores armor, and your target has to smack you in the face to activate it. >.>
Would having neither hit ignore armor (or just the player hit not ignoring armor) and subtracting it pre-multiplication (as normal, I believe) make it seem better? The original intention was something of a "hit me harder" version of Sudden Strike for warrior characters that weren't inclined to sneaking as much as hitting things, with a worse trade-off. Ignoring armor does kind of make them less equal though, I imagine.

The getting smacked in the face is the point of contention. With how fast some things can KO a PC, that could result in being insta gibbed. Also, the situation of;
PC: "Haha! Attack me if you dare, fiend!"
Monster: "Okay!" *Grapples*
Comes to mind. Granted, that's the same problem as the Two Weapon Fighting Talent that does the same thing, so I suppose it could be solved in the same way. Though, there's also the problem of characters who don't wear armor using it for basically no penalty except trading initiative with their enemy.

Challenge was mainly intended as a "hit me, not my companion" skill for characters who have companions that they're attached to. >.> Maybe it could include a small penalty to attack for the challenged target? If that's too much of a pain to keep track of then maybe a -6, 8, or 10 attack penalty to the target. Of course, for maximum tracking simplicity I'm sure most warriors wouldn't mind trading that dodge for a +6, 8, or 10 attack boost against the challenged target, even if they didn't have a companion to protect.

I knew that, I just wanted it to include that the character got some bonus as well. I'd also likely say that they would only be able to use it in group vs group fights, and include that only Knights can take it.

Unrelenting Fury might be a bit silly for a skill, yeah. I'll be the first to admit that it was one of my least fleshed out ideas (and none of them were particularly well thought out, so that puts it in a league of its own). I blame frenzied berserkers. >.> Maybe remove the Game Over possibility and just have it as a passive skill in combination with rage that automatically grants temporary HP equal to your body score? Or, I suppose it could be rewritten entirely into a skill that uses the warrior's EP as temporary HP. If their EP hits 0 then they fall unconscious normally if their rage ends, otherwise they fight through until they hit 0 HP and fall unconscious then.

Using EP as HP while in a rage I like the idea of.

Have Powerful Embrace deal 1d10 that ignores armor and 2d10 that ignores armor in a Submission Hold? The idea was that it was passive so that the grappler could take other actions while doing chip damage. A bump up to 1d12 or maybe just a straight body/4 (and maybe double damage in a submission hold) might work too, though!

Bigger! XP
I'll post something in the thread soonish. Then, you shall see!

Something like this, maybe?
Slam (Activated) - SUPLEX THAT RAPIST. When the character has the target in a submission hold, they may choose to make an attack at 1d12 + Body/2 damage. In addition, they may trade grapple modifier to damage at a 1:1 ratio with a 20 cap.

Something like that, methinks.

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

In the general spirit of a deal with the devil, substitutions should probably be allowed. Not that there shouldn't be an alternative prices, necessarily, but "you have puppies" could be "someone has puppies".

I've always muses about the idea of alternative payments like that. I think I asked once and was told it wasn't possible, but since we're on the subject. Things like being able to call in a gang of goblins, where both their task and reward is defeating and defiling a weak opponent. I can't imagine the goblins having much to disagree about. Or perhaps sumoning a succubus with the task of, "sex that person for me".

It's not exactly the most likely situation, and I can't see it being too useful for anyone other than more morally dubious characters, but, might such things be possible?

 

[Keylo]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

I've always muses about the idea of alternative payments like that. I think I asked once and was told it wasn't possible, but since we're on the subject. Things like being able to call in a gang of goblins, where both their task and reward is defeating and defiling a weak opponent. I can't imagine the goblins having much to disagree about. Or perhaps sumoning a succubus with the task of, "sex that person for me".

It's not exactly the most likely situation, and I can't see it being too useful for anyone other than more morally dubious characters, but, might such things be possible?

...For the record, that's how Enigma takes care of/intends on taking care most of her "extra prices"... and why she never summons the tentacle horrors or hellhounds.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

If they're skills dedicated purely to 2 handed blunt weapons, why not just take Whirlwind and Supreme Might from the Heavy Weapons skill list? Unless you intend to redesign the entire skill system for me, of course.

I talked with you about that in the shoutbox. I threw those in as a way of saying, 'This is all you can use with the hammer,' since having so many skills available to one type of weapon I think would give an unfair edge over the other choices. In other words, I think those are the five skills you should have available to you exclusively while wielding a hammer, mostly because I think Cleave from Heavy Weapons doesn't sound quite right when you use it with a hammer weapon, along with the first reason.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

I talked with you about that in the shoutbox. I threw those in as a way of saying, 'This is all you can use with the hammer,' since having so many skills available to one type of weapon I think would give an unfair edge over the other choices. In other words, I think those are the five skills you should have available to you exclusively while wielding a hammer, mostly because I think Cleave from Heavy Weapons doesn't sound quite right when you use it with a hammer weapon, along with the first reason.

Oh yeah. Derp. Sorry about that. That makes sense, though it should be noted that hammers aren't the only two handed blunt weapons. That group also includes staffs and heavy maces and flails and such.

@Cleave: Well, think of this: Maybe you hit someone with your hammer so hard, that they crumple in one hit, and your swing just keeps on going as they're sent tumbling away with a few less bones in their body. And maybe that attack hits the next demon in line as well.

I'm not saying that two handed blunt weapons can't have the skills you came up with, just positing an example of how Cleave might work with them. The tentative bits is more me just wanting to take a bit longer to look at them a little longer.

How about making the Badarian firearms SCIENCE! based, while Su-Ku-Ta gunpowder is a more magical production? Since they have a more significant wealth of mages, I mean.

Or do those originate from across the sea?

They're both science based. The cat people are more advanced than the humans, and the lich king more or less created guns to make up for his reduced ability to field magic users. So, they're both SCIENCE, but I'm not saying exactly how they both got invented just yet.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

Ideas for magic that I had:

I want the "Focus in" Talent to do more than unlock spells. As such, I think I might just let them increase the effective spell level of all spells cast in that element by 1 for damage and such only. This would be simpler than the current set up, but might make them a little too powerful. Thoughts?

Also, the idea of changing Empower to just increase the spell level came up as well. Who likes that idea? I was thinking increase the spell level by 3 for 8-10 EP.

 

[Termite]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

Since Focus Talents are the only way to access Level 4 and 5 spells it feels odd to suddenly make them Level 5 and 6. I wouldn't do this unless there was some other way for a character to gain access to the higher tier spells.

A question that will probably come up some time later once DG3 gets ready to start: Will the Juggernaut mutation have any effect on Mages or Spirit Wielders?

Edit:
And I somehow forgot to add a possible solution to bolstering spells affected by the Focus Talent. I believe you can either increase the size of the dice or add another roll. This will make all spells that deal pure damage more effective and makes the lower level spells in a Focused Element more enticing to use over a Non-Focused Element.

 

[Hafnium]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

I'm kind of on the fence about the focus giving +1 to the spell multiplier. On the one hand it's not really overpowered (although it's very noticeable with Empower), but at the same time focus grants access to level 4 and 5 spells and a +12 casting bonus to those spells in the first place. Not only that, characters that cross class gain its benefit too, which I feel is kind of weird given the hoops non-warriors (and I guess non-succubi) have to jump through to get Skill with Weapon *and* the appropriate prerequisite for skills related to a weapon.

Maybe it could be a second talent, like (Element) Mastery. The caster treats any spells cast from the same elemental school as one level higher for the purposes of determining spell multiplier. The caster gains +6 (maybe 8 or 10) to attack rolls for spells of that element. Requires Focus in the same element.

I like the Empower change but that could be bias since I suggested similar while whinging about summons in the shoutbox. >.> Empower, as is, is kind of a weird talent. If a mage is getting plenty of chances to rest then it's extremely powerful. If the GM is running them ragged with no chances to rest then it's extremely dangerous to the PC. With the Maximize talent available the current Empower becomes much less of a gamble, too. I support it but I'd also support reducing the cost to 8 EP, maybe even 6.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

So yeah, the Defensive Grappler skill had the auto-fail actions bit removed. It was a little bit too OP with that.

 

[GargantuaBlarg]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

A character with a Body stat less than 10 is considered too weak to do much more than walk, a character with less than a Mind stat less than 10 is considered retarded, and a character with a Spirit stat less than 10 will have severe emotional problems. The latter two must be RPed out, but the first also has minor mechanical penalties associated with a low Speed stat and an inability to grapple with things.

IIRC, a lot of playtests were based on ~30-40 in a stat (or Hafnium's were, at least - again, IIRC), and I know Naltaibur's Mind of 28 is pretty low for a mage. That means that, before talents (and thusly Strong of Xs, which represent exceptional strength/intelligence/soul-iness, right?) a human character would have to be on the cusp of incompetence to be relatively competent in their chosen area (30/10/10 in their relative stats).

What's the level before you're considered crippled/retarded in DnD, again? 6, 7? It's kind of like starting at that in all stats except two, which would be around 13 or 14.

I would suggest lowering the thresh hold to, like... I dunno, 6 or something. I'm assuming DG generates characters at a "heroic" level of power or something? That would raise the amount of points free to 32, which would let characters be nicely above the level of unstable/idiotic/crippled, and stuff.

Although... that would mean you'd have to spend 2 points or less if you wanted to be retarded or crippled or whatever, which is pretty miniscule. And it'd stop certain races from being something unless they got debuffed or something completely - like orcs, who start at 8 body, and the like.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

So, yeah, in case anyone missed it, Perception in DG3 is now Mind/2, and Stealth is now Body/2. Just another heads up.

Anyway, @ GargantuaBlargs idea: 10 in each stat is "human average" in D&D, and it's actually the same in Dark Gate. I think of 10 less as the cusp of incompetence, and more as the amount that an average person has.

You are correct in supposing that characters start at a heroic level of power, however, and I suppose that if there's some support behind this I can drop the minimum to 8 or 6.

 

[plmnko]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

(plmnko check his character sheet)

yes, maybe 8 could be better, many players have their characters below 0 in one stat

 

[Tassadar]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

So. Something I've been mulling over for all you new people.

Possibly starting DG3 early for people that aren't in DG2, and then just starting the DG3 threads for people whenever their old threads finished. I'd like some thoughts on that from the newbies and the old players.

If I did do this, it wouldn't be starting for another 2 weeks or so, once the semester is over in other words.

 

[Courage Wolf]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

Not a bad idea at all, get the newbies figured out a bit and lighten the overall load, it will also allow you to further plan out the DG2's PC threads in advance based on what happens, always a plus

 

[Shrike7]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

It doesnt make much difference to me, i don't think, though I'm curious how long DG1 lasted. i havent read through many other's threads, but it seems to me that the few DG2 threads I have read are mostly still in the opening, really. Not sure how long you plan on the story taking, I'm just afraid DG3 will be halfway over by the time the DG2 players get a start on it...

 

[Host]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

It doesnt make much difference to me, i don't think, though I'm curious how long DG1 lasted. i havent read through many other's threads, but it seems to me that the few DG2 threads I have read are mostly still in the opening, really. Not sure how long you plan on the story taking, I'm just afraid DG3 will be halfway over by the time the DG2 players get a start on it...

Now, I'm not sure, but I believe that DG3's plot is something along the lines of "DG2: PART 2", rather than a whole new story. If my thinking is right, those threads that are near the end of the introduction are effectively at the end of DG2 - because DG3 is, I believe, going to cover the end-half of the invasion, with a small-to-moderate timeskip involved. In which case, basically everyone is near the end of their DG2 threads (with the exception of me ).

DG1 went for a good long time, though I get the feeling DG2 didn't go for quite as long.

 

[TentanariX]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

So it'd be more accurate to call it DG2.5 or DG 2.22 or something right?

But seriously, for newbies or people who may have been looking at DG2 but weren't able to or didn't join earlier, starting DG ver.x might not be a bad idea. And when Tass gets the old threads wrapped up and the system unkinked and worked out, the oldies can pick their threads back up and start playing.

 

[plmnko]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

It will be more fair for the new ones, maybe when the old players join. They will have time to earn some experience in the game play, as also exp to dont look so bad with the players from dg2.

Anyway DG2 started when DG had not ended and DG last fight continued for some months after DG2 begin

 

[SirOni]

Re: PbP Interest Check(And OOC Thread)

So if it's more like DG2.5 that means there won't be enough time passed for me to play as Eleanor's and Aulekia's kid?