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Kimochi shutting down


Unknown Squid

Aurani's Wife
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Re: Kimochi shutting down

Aw snap. I'd been planing to get Anthphobia via Kimochi at some point. Sucks to hear it didn't work out. Was really hoping it would go places.
 

Moonchaos

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

Well, sadly this was to be expected.
You would need a rather large Community/Market to be able to keep
the service up.
This would need a large ammount of Games/Services aviable and people using them. It is just still to small of a gap.
 

habisain

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I'd actually disagree that the market is too small. I think there is enough of a market for adult games etc. to keep a platform up - I just think that Kimochi made quite a lot of misteps. Here's a bullet list:

- Hosting: They were using DigitalOcean for hosting; looking at the pricing DigitalOcean has, it seems fairly steep. Especially once you get into high-bandwidth territory.
- Free Content: They were hosting free content and absorbing the bandwidth costs without any solid monetisation strategy; would have been much better to get monetisation sorted first, and possibly leverage other platforms for storage of free content (e.g. having their client use Mega for storage of free games).
- Branding: They marketed themselves as being a Western adult game market, but called themselves Kimochi - a Japanse word. Not the smartest branding, frankly.
- Restricted Content: They limited themselves just to adult games, which are pretty niche. It would have made a lot of sense to host other adult stuff like comics, animations, stories etc. There's a few western groups/collectives that stay afloat doing just comics (thinking mainly of Slipshine/Hentaikey, probably others)
- Restricted Platforms: Sort-of tieing into the previous point, the client put up a pretty big barrier. Even though there are a lot of shopfronts that require a client to use their content (Steam, UPlay, Origin, whatever), I can't think of one that required the client to browse the catalogue.
- Exclusivity: There was nothing exclusive to the platform, I think. And even if there was, there was no advertisement of that due to the problem of not being able to view the catalogue outside of the client. Getting something exclusive would've driven a lot of interest.

There are more misteps, I'd say, but these were the major ones.
 

hrpgheaven

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I just think that it was very unprofessional and to some people, incomprehensible.

Their premise was kinda "we're the steam of H games", but that creates more questions than it answers.

That's why I haven't even considered it at early stages, same with a ton of other developers, we were waiting to see how it would sruvive the test of time.

They stated in their forum that they "approached me" to sell my game there but all I got was one guy called Hank or something PMing me: "Hey you heard about Kimochi?! You should check it out!"

That's their approach? Anyone will feel this is extremely unprofessional and if the idea was to alert for its existence, it did more harm than good.

I think they should've been more aggressive on the market (not on the developers), more vocal, helpful, it could've been a good thing.
 
E

erobotan

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

aww .. too bad, and I plan to release my game on march too ... guess we're stuck with around 50% profit cut from DLSite/Mangagamer again ..
 

YummyTiger

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I'd actually disagree that the market is too small. I think there is enough of a market for adult games etc. to keep a platform up - I just think that Kimochi made quite a lot of misteps. Here's a bullet list:

- Hosting: They were using DigitalOcean for hosting; looking at the pricing DigitalOcean has, it seems fairly steep. Especially once you get into high-bandwidth territory.
- Free Content: They were hosting free content and absorbing the bandwidth costs without any solid monetisation strategy; would have been much better to get monetisation sorted first, and possibly leverage other platforms for storage of free content (e.g. having their client use Mega for storage of free games).
- Branding: They marketed themselves as being a Western adult game market, but called themselves Kimochi - a Japanse word. Not the smartest branding, frankly.
- Restricted Content: They limited themselves just to adult games, which are pretty niche. It would have made a lot of sense to host other adult stuff like comics, animations, stories etc. There's a few western groups/collectives that stay afloat doing just comics (thinking mainly of Slipshine/Hentaikey, probably others)
- Restricted Platforms: Sort-of tieing into the previous point, the client put up a pretty big barrier. Even though there are a lot of shopfronts that require a client to use their content (Steam, UPlay, Origin, whatever), I can't think of one that required the client to browse the catalogue.
- Exclusivity: There was nothing exclusive to the platform, I think. And even if there was, there was no advertisement of that due to the problem of not being able to view the catalogue outside of the client. Getting something exclusive would've driven a lot of interest.

There are more misteps, I'd say, but these were the major ones.
You had posted a few times in the past that they made a "number of mistakes," and I always wondered what you were referring to. Very informative post, and in hindsight, I can see how each one of those would be an issue. Very helpful, thank you.

Of those, I can see how the hosting of free content is really a big one. In fact, I believe most of their content was free, which poses a problem. Also, you are correct in exclusivity. Although, Steam seems to get around this with game sales by simply being the go-to shop. Had Kimochi brought in the majority of western developers (which is possible given the size of the market), I could see it eventually being the go-to shop, which would have made exclusivity less an issue. (If that makes sense).

Still, I am quite sad to see this go. I did not have anything to offer them, but I was really, really hoping things would work out. I do agree though, that most businesses post losses up front. The challenge is limiting those losses so you can survive and ultimately succeed. There is a reason such a huge percentage of business fail in the first 5 year, and then another huge percentage fail within the first 10.
 

Apathy

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I never really understood what they were offering that required a steam-like client in the first place. I guess DRM options for the game makers? The client was kinda terrible even for a beta.

I mean, it'd be cool to have a steam-like client to download games and stuff, but wouldn't a website like dlsite work better and be cheaper to run? Did they try using a P2P thing to cut down on download rates? I guess there probably isn't enough of a market for that to work well enough to matter.
 

habisain

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

Also, you are correct in exclusivity. Although, Steam seems to get around this with game sales by simply being the go-to shop.
Steam certainly does have exclusivity - there's a lot of triple A stuff which is Steam exclusive (or at least tied exclusively to the Steam DRM) But more to the point, way back when Steam was a fledgling store, what was the reason people used it? Half-life 2, Portal, and all that other Orange Box stuff. And people even put up with forced updates in a world of slow internet connections, and fairly frequent outages, just for those games. Exclusives drive traffic, and when you're starting out, you damn well need that traffic. And good exclusives can make people put up with all kinds of crap from the client.

I never really understood what they were offering that required a steam-like client in the first place. I guess DRM options for the game makers? The client was kinda terrible even for a beta.

I mean, it'd be cool to have a steam-like client to download games and stuff, but wouldn't a website like dlsite work better and be cheaper to run? Did they try using a P2P thing to cut down on download rates? I guess there probably isn't enough of a market for that to work well enough to matter.
I don't think that they offered either DRM or P2P downloading. P2P would have been smart, mind you, and while it might not have worked for paid downloads it would have been great for the free stuff - especially if it used Bittorrent and publically posted the free games on regular tracker sites.

Also as a note, clients aren't necessarily expensive. A good chunk of Steam is just the Steam website. The really confusing bit is why they didn't have a good website.
 

steamydev

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I'd actually disagree that the market is too small. I think there is enough of a market for adult games etc. to keep a platform up - I just think that Kimochi made quite a lot of misteps. Here's a bullet list:

- Hosting: They were using DigitalOcean for hosting; looking at the pricing DigitalOcean has, it seems fairly steep. Especially once you get into high-bandwidth territory.
- Free Content: They were hosting free content and absorbing the bandwidth costs without any solid monetisation strategy; would have been much better to get monetisation sorted first, and possibly leverage other platforms for storage of free content (e.g. having their client use Mega for storage of free games).
- Branding: They marketed themselves as being a Western adult game market, but called themselves Kimochi - a Japanse word. Not the smartest branding, frankly.
- Restricted Content: They limited themselves just to adult games, which are pretty niche. It would have made a lot of sense to host other adult stuff like comics, animations, stories etc. There's a few western groups/collectives that stay afloat doing just comics (thinking mainly of Slipshine/Hentaikey, probably others)
- Restricted Platforms: Sort-of tieing into the previous point, the client put up a pretty big barrier. Even though there are a lot of shopfronts that require a client to use their content (Steam, UPlay, Origin, whatever), I can't think of one that required the client to browse the catalogue.
- Exclusivity: There was nothing exclusive to the platform, I think. And even if there was, there was no advertisement of that due to the problem of not being able to view the catalogue outside of the client. Getting something exclusive would've driven a lot of interest.

There are more misteps, I'd say, but these were the major ones.
I definitely agree with some of these points. The free content was not really our choice. As I've mentioned in several places, most western adult games are crowd-funded via Patreon and then distribute for free via Kimochi.
 

Lancelot

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

OMG! I have re-installed window and I didnt save the installer app. How could I re-download my purchased (Sourjelly)?!
 

steamydev

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

OMG! I have re-installed window and I didnt save the installer app. How could I re-download my purchased (Sourjelly)?!
"https://launcher.kimochi.co/KimochiLauncher.exe"
 

habisain

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I definitely agree with some of these points. The free content was not really our choice. As I've mentioned in several places, most western adult games are crowd-funded via Patreon and then distribute for free via Kimochi.
Hmm. Not sure I quite agree with that statement. There were alternatives to hosting the game on your own servers; given that the games are free, I don't think there's a requirement to do that as the only advantage of hosting on your own server is access control. You could quite happily host them on something like Mega (which has an API, although this use may go against ToS), or Torrents. Both would have dramatically cut the amount of money spent on hosting stuff that wasn't monetisable for you.

The other alternatives would be to charge developers for hosting F2P games on Kimochi (which I think is how Steam does it, to an extent at least), levying a download charge on your users for downloading via Kimochi, or just refusing to have free stuff on the service. Now, the side-effects of some of these policies might not be palatable (which is why I would personally advocate using free storage like Mega for free games), but they're all choices that you could have made to address this issue.

Basically: while a lot of H-games are being distributed for free, that doesn't mean it has to be your problem. There's multiple ways to get around it. So either it was something that Kimochi as a company actively chose, or planning didn't take it into account and Kimochi ended up sleepwalking into a situation it couldn't handle. I suspect the latter - which is why I characterise all of the issues I listed with Kimochi as being 'missteps'.
 

omp1234

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

They weren't taking a big enough cut to cover their costs and bled out pretty quick. Not surprising considering it was a ragtag team with little qualifications on their financial and legal departments. I hope they come back with a better team and project and don't hire the first people to raise their hands for the critical business positions.
 

Papanomics

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

I'd say good riddance, but...

They said something about April 1st...

I call shenanigans and tomfoolery
 

Omnikuken

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

^ I'd say you didn't miss out much (yeah yeah sue me)
 
OP
azurezero

azurezero

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

On their front page it says March 31st.
the final payments to publishers should be going out april first, so its natural that would be the day after they close up
 

Angmir

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Re: Kimochi shutting down

Anything free there worth checking before it is closed ?
 
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