What's new

RPG Unknown/Hiatus Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!


Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

-The struggle mechanic is broken, especially since the action meter resets on a grapple attack. Grapples are nearly impossible to break out of without a great deal of luck.
What? To break out of a grapple you just hit the left and right arrow keys, at least if you're on No Wait (which is actually the easier battle mode to handle grappling enemies), there's no "luck" involved. No idea what you mean by the struggle mechanic being "broken". If anyone is to understand where you're coming from, you're going to need to provide context. What enemies or enemy encounters have this problem? Are you at max lust or none? Have you been playing in the dark areas without the NV goggles?

Personally speaking, with both characters at level 05, with max lust and broken armor as well as fighting enemies in dark areas and having given Neon the NV goggles, I find little to no trouble fighting off ANY enemy encounter, that includes the double vioreaper + tentacle monster (which along with the triple vorepups and the final boss is the enemy encounter with the most grapple enemies, to my knowledge). You just have to be strategic, keep an eye on which enemy is going to charge up a grapple next, and save Neon for her Distracting Shot.

Alternatively, even when both characters get grappled, all it takes are 2 turns of struggling (at max lust, usually only takes 1 otherwise) and they're free. If there are three enemies and 2 are in the middle of grappling your party, that leaves only one free enemy left. Plus, once the tentacle monsters consume a character, that character is safe from any damage, and you have just enough time to escape before the submerge phase begins (if you're fast enough). Enemies aren't just spamming grapples again and again and again and again constantly. Depending on the time you free, say, Neon from a grapple, both the enemy you just got free from and the other un-involved enemy may still have to fill up their first action bar, and to grapple they have to fill up the 2nd. Neon's Distracting Shot only requires 1 action bar to get ready (as well as a bit of time to select the right enemy, if need be).

So I really don't see what exactly is "broken" in this game.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

What is the new enemy?
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

What? To break out of a grapple you just hit the left and right arrow keys, at least if you're on No Wait (which is actually the easier battle mode to handle grappling enemies), there's no "luck" involved. No idea what you mean by the struggle mechanic being "broken". If anyone is to understand where you're coming from, you're going to need to provide context. What enemies or enemy encounters have this problem? Are you at max lust or none? Have you been playing in the dark areas without the NV goggles?

Personally speaking, with both characters at level 05, with max lust and broken armor as well as fighting enemies in dark areas and having given Neon the NV goggles, I find little to no trouble fighting off ANY enemy encounter, that includes the double vioreaper + tentacle monster (which along with the triple vorepups and the final boss is the enemy encounter with the most grapple enemies, to my knowledge). You just have to be strategic, keep an eye on which enemy is going to charge up a grapple next, and save Neon for her Distracting Shot.

Alternatively, even when both characters get grappled, all it takes are 2 turns of struggling (at max lust, usually only takes 1 otherwise) and they're free. If there are three enemies and 2 are in the middle of grappling your party, that leaves only one free enemy left. Plus, once the tentacle monsters consume a character, that character is safe from any damage, and you have just enough time to escape before the submerge phase begins (if you're fast enough). Enemies aren't just spamming grapples again and again and again and again constantly. Depending on the time you free, say, Neon from a grapple, both the enemy you just got free from and the other un-involved enemy may still have to fill up their first action bar, and to grapple they have to fill up the 2nd. Neon's Distracting Shot only requires 1 action bar to get ready (as well as a bit of time to select the right enemy, if need be).

So I really don't see what exactly is "broken" in this game.

Yeah, no shit. This is basically top shelf turn-based combat already.

The RNG could be better, because there is a distinct possibility of getting spam fucked, but ONLY if you deliberately risk running around with maxxed lust.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

One suggestion on the topic of combat balance:

I don't think this is the case yet, but could a grappled character get the same damage resistance (to outside attacks) that grappling characters do?

That way, a grapple might feel less like "get stunned while the other enemies wail on you" and more "temporarily removed from combat"...
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

One suggestion on the topic of combat balance:

I don't think this is the case yet, but could a grappled character get the same damage resistance (to outside attacks) that grappling characters do?

That way, a grapple might feel less like "get stunned while the other enemies wail on you" and more "temporarily removed from combat"...

This is a really great idea, in my opinion. Either make grapple a vulnerability for both, or protect both. The way it is just feels wrong.

What? To break out of a grapple you just hit the left and right arrow keys, at least if you're on No Wait (which is actually the easier battle mode to handle grappling enemies), there's no "luck" involved. No idea what you mean by the struggle mechanic being "broken". If anyone is to understand where you're coming from, you're going to need to provide context. What enemies or enemy encounters have this problem? Are you at max lust or none? Have you been playing in the dark areas without the NV goggles?

The "mash left/right buttons" dynamic is a complete pain in the ass, particularly when you have so limited a time window to do it. There is no dynamic feedback between the player's actions and the enemy's actions and the grapple, just a simple deduct X mechanic. See Anthophobia as an example of a game which did it much better. Best of all is to get rid of the "Push X to escape!" dynamic entirely and come up with something more creative.

Besides, I like playing on wait mode so the game doesn't feel like one giant quicktime event.

Personally speaking, with both characters at level 05, with max lust and broken armor as well as fighting enemies in dark areas and having given Neon the NV goggles, I find little to no trouble fighting off ANY enemy encounter, that includes the double vioreaper + tentacle monster (which along with the triple vorepups and the final boss is the enemy encounter with the most grapple enemies, to my knowledge). You just have to be strategic, keep an eye on which enemy is going to charge up a grapple next, and save Neon for her Distracting Shot.

Alternatively, even when both characters get grappled, all it takes are 2 turns of struggling (at max lust, usually only takes 1 otherwise) and they're free. If there are three enemies and 2 are in the middle of grappling your party, that leaves only one free enemy left. Plus, once the tentacle monsters consume a character, that character is safe from any damage, and you have just enough time to escape before the submerge phase begins (if you're fast enough). Enemies aren't just spamming grapples again and again and again and again constantly. Depending on the time you free, say, Neon from a grapple, both the enemy you just got free from and the other un-involved enemy may still have to fill up their first action bar, and to grapple they have to fill up the 2nd. Neon's Distracting Shot only requires 1 action bar to get ready (as well as a bit of time to select the right enemy, if need be).

So I really don't see what exactly is "broken" in this game.

I didn't say the game is difficult, I said it's got flaws.
See below for more explanation.

While I certainly appreciate the feedback and the chance to make something productive out of it, please try to remember this is a work in progress! Some of your suggestions are on the to do list or have been discussed pretty extensively in previous posts.

If you want your players to have a more clear idea of what your demo is, put it in the OP of this thread, where it's easy to see, or somewhere else similarly obvious. A list of specific planned tweaks, changes, or intended improvements that isn't buried in 74 pages of discussion would be enormously beneficial. It sounds, honestly, like the demo right now is a "tech demo", which is worlds different from a game demo. If I'd been thinking of it as a tech demo, I'd be a lot more forgiving in my analysis.

The battle engine is basically a total rewrite of RPG Maker's, and a lot of features still aren't in place yet. This naturally affects our ability to balance combat quite severely. It would also be a huge task to re-balance combat every build since a lot of the mechanics aren't even finished yet.

I'd like to respond to some of your points however, as I feel like you're missing some points of the bigger picture.

This is definitely not final. While their success rate can be balanced later quite easily, there will definitely be skills designed to actively defend against or even counter H-attacks.

Well, duh. You're going to need all the input you can get to determine if your attempts to balance the system are working correctly, or not, and whether players like them. I didn't say the game is hopelessly fucked, just that it needs adjustments.

This is completely intended, and your second sentence explains why. Lust is the real parameter to watch out for, and allows for carrying a build up of H-related effects between battles. If you could reduce Lust on the fly, then you'd simply never see H content unless each battle was very difficult. This is a huge problem with most H-RPGs out there, as once you are capable of defeating enemies in an area then they pose no threat at all since you begin each battle refreshed.

You are taking a potential problem, the "post-area overpowered player" phenomenon, and engineering an excessively blunt solution to "fix" it.

On the one hand, I do agree that having the enemies continue to be a compelling threat is a great idea, and that making the game feel like it continually challenges the player is a good thing, but making there be a single cumulative damage state that CANNOT be mitigated is simply bad design. Give the player options: "lust reduction" items, or make defending reduce arousal (this actually makes sense, if it's allowing a degree of self-repair), or create a sexy "stress relief" minigame that can either reduce arousal on success or increase it on failure, or (as you mention in the interview), make it so that arousal is another resource to manage that has both advantages (using H attacks against your enemies, counters, etc.) and disadvantages (loss of control of characters, possibly, and certainly increased vulnerability to grapples and H attacks)

Ultimately, however, as the players progress in level, the enemies WILL become less and less of a threat. If you work too hard to counter this, you will end up with a situation where there is no sense of progression in leveling up.

I'm not sure if you're being literal here or not. The manual struggle mode actually was broken in V0.041 as some of the UI graphics were not displaying, but was fixed with the hotfix located here:

"Broken" meaning it comes across as being a pain in the ass, instead of being something that feels like it adds tension to the game. It's tedious to break out of grapples, yet fails to incite a real sense of urgency, since you already have to try pretty hard to get into a situation where you're getting grappled at all, and since the only way to get H content is to be high lust, it's not like the player gets into that situation "by accident".

It feels like this: "I want H content, so I'll get my arousal high; now I have to continually break out of grapples to do ANYTHING". The fact that some enemies have 1HKO finishers simply makes it seem even more tedious and contrived. (Though if there were sexy unique KO animations for player chars killed by an H finisher, that would significantly improve the situation)

However, as you mention in the interview, additional skills that allow arousal to be a RESOURCE (admittedly, a resource with some potential caveats) instead of a pure liability, would massively improve the situation.

The idea here is that the Resist category of skills has more importance placed on it since an enemy can't easily be killed during an H attack. I disagree with the idea that being able to easily kill an enemy that performs an H-attack would be a good thing.

It's "good" in the sense that it's intuitive, and makes sense. However, CrazyPerson's idea is also a good compromise. There are a million ways to tweak the balance so that grapples feel like a real threat, but aren't so annoying that they detract from the game experience.

See post #1044, you'll be pleased I think :D.

Yes.

I agree! Remember, just because it's not in the game now doesn't mean it won't be. This is an idea I've discussed in the interview found here:

Well, duh. I'm glad you've already thought of it, but it never hurts to reiterate support for a good idea.

Different map sprite graphics for H-related effects are actually planned, but aren't really of the highest priority right now.

I meant the paperdoll in combat, not the char sprite in the map. The map sprites are too small for me to really care, though they should at least have animations corresponding to the battle sprites to avoid a continuity issue.

In other words, literally the only time you see pink with Neon is during her damage flinch animation. (Or during grapples)

Some of your other suggestions were discussed heavily in this topic around the release of V0.03 (early November I believe) EDIT: Sorry, I meant the public demo... mid February. It's very easy to take what you see at face value, but realize the current demo still only covers very low level play, and isn't intended to be representative of the final game. Instead, it's meant to represent what's possible with the final game.

The specific term you want is "tech demo". This is good, in the sense that it means that this really is just showing off the platform you're working with, but you should make that more obvious on the public demo page.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

What is the new enemy?

It's sort of like a baby mobile version of the boss you fight at the end of the public demo / V0.03 that has tentacle/vore/bukkake/immersion attacks.

One suggestion on the topic of combat balance:

I don't think this is the case yet, but could a grappled character get the same damage resistance (to outside attacks) that grappling characters do?

That way, a grapple might feel less like "get stunned while the other enemies wail on you" and more "temporarily removed from combat"...

This is definitely something worth considering once we have some mid-game content to test. Another option would be to add damage resistance during grapples as an equipment bonus or as a passive skill.

The "mash left/right buttons" dynamic is a complete pain in the ass, particularly when you have so limited a time window to do it

My immediate suggestion would be to set Struggle to Auto in the options. This changes to the manual struggle event to an automated "channeled" one that reduces the enemy's grasp over time, and is provided exactly for players that don't like the quicktime event. Also, "Struggle" is just an initial skill that can be switched out later on if you prefer, and is basically meant to be used a last resort when you're low on SP or want to conserve it. It's likely the struggle event will be made more interesting however, as right now it's in the most basic form possible.

On the one hand, I do agree that having the enemies continue to be a compelling threat is a great idea, and that making the game feel like it continually challenges the player is a good thing, but making there be a single cumulative damage state that CANNOT be mitigated is simply bad design. Give the player options: "lust reduction" items, or make defending reduce arousal...

There are plenty of games that successfully feature a parameter that forces the player to choose whether to turn back or keep pushing on with an objective (or that are irrecoverable and thus act as a hinge for the player's success to balance on). Do you feel that the Estus Flask from Dark Souls was bad design because it could only be recharged at a bonfire? Do you think that virtually every MMO's concept of armor damage is bad design in that it needs to be repaired at a town?

As I said above: if in general a player could reduce Lust at any time there would be no carry-over of H-related effects between battles.

It feels like this: "I want H content, so I'll get my arousal high; now I have to continually break out of grapples to do ANYTHING".

I mean, if all you want is to skip straight to the H-content there is a 236 page artwork PDF available :D. If you want to play an RPG and get H content throughout as you play, then I think many of the players so far would say it's off to a good start.

It's "good" in the sense that it's intuitive, and makes sense.

I highly disagree, and you haven't given any ideas to support this. If you could simply kill any enemy while it performs an H attack then it would make the grapple system pointless.

It sounds, honestly, like the demo right now is a "tech demo", which is worlds different from a game demo.

...

The specific term you want is "tech demo".

The term "Public Demo" differentiates it from a paid demo on Patreon, as all of the other demos have been.
 
Last edited:
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Is there something I'm missing, or are the coordinates that the annoying doorbot gives for the third hint useless? They don't seem to be useful info without something to give them meaning (like a number-to-letter translation).
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Is there something I'm missing, or are the coordinates that the annoying doorbot gives for the third hint useless? They don't seem to be useful info without something to give them meaning (like a number-to-letter translation).

022 means bbcc I think
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

022 means bbcc I think

I saw in an earlier post that "BBCC" has the item that doorbot says his coordinates lead to, but how are we supposed to get that from "0,2,2"?
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I saw in an earlier post that "BBCC" has the item that doorbot says his coordinates lead to, but how are we supposed to get that from "0,2,2"?

Something is being added in the patched version for that purpose :D. Also, more and better hints, among other things.

EDIT: If you can pick up on the pattern of the layout of the puzzle by trial and error then the coordinates make sense.
 
Last edited:
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Something is being added in the patched version for that purpose :D. Also, more and better hints, among other things.

EDIT: If you can pick up on the pattern of the layout of the puzzle by trial and error then the coordinates make sense.

I get it now. It doesn't make any sense until you've brute-forced it enough to learn that the order you use the doors doesn't matter, though, and by then you probably found the NVGs on accident. Good to hear that you're smoothing out the puzzle too.

As promising a development as the new adversary girl is, is there any effect or her armor breakage other than "look, ta-tas"? It doesn't change her moveset (after the first runaway), it doesn't give the heroines any new combat options, and I don't even think it lowers her defense. Is it just there as a sign of things to come?

Spiffy attack animation you gave her, by the way.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I was thinking that maybe you'd fight her alongside some monsters or soldiers, and as soon as she's stripped, they start grappling HER as well. Maybe if there's another female boss (or Soldier Lady becomes a recurring enemy). Maybe she shows up in a tougher armor and you can't defeat her normally, you need to crack it open and have some mobs have a go at her.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I have the NV goggles equipped on Neon... is it supposed to do anything?
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

The NV goggles let the person it's equipped on retain their normal hit rate in the dark areas.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I was thinking that maybe you'd fight her alongside some monsters or soldiers, and as soon as she's stripped, they start grappling HER as well. Maybe if there's another female boss (or Soldier Lady becomes a recurring enemy). Maybe she shows up in a tougher armor and you can't defeat her normally, you need to crack it open and have some mobs have a go at her.

That sounds like it'd be a really good boss fight gimmick to bust out, at least once. Honestly, though, I'm hoping Malise and Neon get the opportunity to bust out some moves of their own.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

i can not figure this puzzle out and i fount the suit for Malise and the NVG just randomly is there more?
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

It seems like my previous critiques weren't resolved:
1) It's still really hard to tell whose turn it is because the hexagon background isn't big enough and is mostly covered by graphics.
2) I am still finding myself misclicking a lot after struggling out of H-attacks because it almost instantly goes to the next characters turn. I would often struggle Malise, and then Neon would use a Stimulant as I accidentally press the ok button instead of cancel.

i can not figure this puzzle out and i fount the suit for Malise and the NVG just randomly is there more?

You keep going through the puzzle until you get enough circuit boards to open the way back.

I couldn't figure out any pattern, so I did a process of elimination until I got all I needed. There's more circuit boards than you need, so you just need to remember what route you took before and you'll get there.

Also helps to know that red lights will reset the puzzle.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

It seems like my previous critiques weren't resolved:
1) It's still really hard to tell whose turn it is because the hexagon background isn't big enough and is mostly covered by graphics.
2) I am still finding myself misclicking a lot after struggling out of H-attacks because it almost instantly goes to the next characters turn. I would often struggle Malise, and then Neon would use a Stimulant as I accidentally press the ok button instead of cancel.

These are still on our to do list to look at. I have a few concept visuals worked out for improving the turn indicator. One is to add a graphic on the side of the command panel, but I think it looks kind of hectic. Adding something like this underneath the gauges and in front of the artwork image is my current favorite.

RLv9Spg.jpg
 
Last edited:
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

These are still on our to do list to look at. I have a few concept visuals worked out for improving the turn indicator. One is to add a graphic on the side of the command panel, but I think it looks kind of hectic. Adding something like this underneath the gauges and in front of the artwork image is my current favorite.

RLv9Spg.jpg

I think you should just put the hex on the side of the screen corresponding to the character.

No one would ever get confused with that in place.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Is there a save I can use to skip the circuit board puzzle? maybe jump to the first boss and progress? Really REALLY do not like that puzzle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top