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RPG Unknown/Hiatus Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!


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Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Really hoping the change to monthly will see more time and effort being directed towards the game. It's been real slow going and I've been getting worried that this was going to go the way of games like Breeding Season and Duke Nukem 4ever. All the hype with none of the substance.
Shame you feel this way. But if you think that slaving over 80h a week for less then minimal wage (Polish minimal wage!) is not enough time and effort, I don't think I'll be able to meet your expectations... sorry for that.

(...)
Ya know, I actually agree with you regarding the progress, and the concerns of a hyped-up yet unfinished game (Breeding Season also came to mind) are valid. However, the dev has been nothing but forthcoming and responsive/active on forums and while progress is indeed crawl speed, it's an incredibly complex and gorgeous game so far, so while I doubt this game is going to be released fully in the next year or even few years, it'll be completed at this point. Whether patreons and paying users want to wait that long is another story.
You know, complexity and gorgeousness does require a lot of time and effort, and those aren't the only things that consume our time on the project.

I thought it was an A for effort too, until I saw that it was just a copy-paste of some mother sex story that already exists.

I guess he doesn't like having posts deleted, where he found developers emails and asked people to spam them. Or maybe he still held a grudge against me from when he first made his account and spent over a month posting threads without searching for them first, making shitloads of duplicates with no information in them, and I had to delete them all and told him each time to use the search function that it took way too long for him to figure out. Anyway, he's banned now so, I guess he got what he wanted.
Thanks for cleaning it up.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Yeah, that's what I was implying. Though I'm not patient enough to wait on this game, I understand and respect the time and effort this level of intricacy demands.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I can only agree with the time and effort put in a game if you want it to be of good quality.

I can spend two weeks on only one event on my project for it to have a good feeling (but even this, it's still not perfect)...So I don't even imagine when you do even the art and all the mechanics from scratch with Malise.

I understand it can be frustrating to wait for a game. However it's hard to be in the creators shoes and think about the time they can put to create only a small part of something bigger.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Shame you feel this way. But if you think that slaving over 80h a week for less then minimal wage (Polish minimal wage!) is not enough time and effort, I don't think I'll be able to meet your expectations... sorry for that.

Most developers throw projects on the back burner or just outright drop them if they're not making them enough money. While the "per update" shtick is nice in theory, a dev would never survive on it.

"If it's not my main money maker, then what the fuck do I care?" I've seen this way too many times to not jump to conclusions.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I support the team's move to monthly contributions, it gives them a steady income and therefore a good incentive to keep putting time in.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Yeah, that's what I was implying. Though I'm not patient enough to wait on this game, I understand and respect the time and effort this level of intricacy demands.
And I understand and respect your reluctance to wait, but saying that there's no progress or it's crawling is not really fair then.

Most developers throw projects on the back burner or just outright drop them if they're not making them enough money. While the "per update" shtick is nice in theory, a dev would never survive on it.

"If it's not my main money maker, then what the fuck do I care?" I've seen this way too many times to not jump to conclusions.
Well, we're not most developers :p. Nor me nor anyone else is thinking about throwing the towel and we are committed to finishing the game as soon as possible (without sacrificing quality in the process). We may not make enough money, but we do care and we are pushing forward. Don't really know what made you jump to such conclusions in our case, but I think change logs available on blog are proof enough that we're not sitting on our hands and we are making solid progress with every release.

I can only agree with the time and effort put in a game if you want it to be of good quality.

I can spend two weeks on only one event on my project for it to have a good feeling (but even this, it's still not perfect)...So I don't even imagine when you do even the art and all the mechanics from scratch with Malise.

I understand it can be frustrating to wait for a game. However it's hard to be in the creators shoes and think about the time they can put to create only a small part of something bigger.
I support the team's move to monthly contributions, it gives them a steady income and therefore a good incentive to keep putting time in.
Thanks :).
 
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Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I wasn't really aware that people are so concerned about the game's progress, so it's probably worth addressing. The TL;DR version is that I think the H game community has had so few success stories that everyone is overly skeptical about seeing a game succeed. Probably so much so that the line between a project succeeding and imploding is horrendously blurred. So, if you're wondering, from my perspective this project is doing extremely well, and it's why we so vocally defend our efforts when they're questioned.

I didn't really follow Breeding Season's development, but since it keeps coming up I'll mention that from what I gathered their team chemistry wasn't very good. We on the other hand have the beginnings of a really strong team. All of us know we're onto something solid with this game, and while it demands literally constant work we're having a lot of fun with it.

However, it should be obvious at this point that this project is going to take a lot longer than the average H game. I never suggested otherwise, and while we're dug in and ready for the long haul, those that want the game need to be as well. Telling someone to devote more time to something that they already spend 24/7 on doesn't help really. There are things that will, however! I really want to expand the team even more to help push things along. I'm hoping the conversion to the monthly campaign format will give us enough flexibility to make that possible, but if it doesn't I'll make it happen some other way (without sacrificing the vision).

The point is that we're doing great, so don't stress. Instead, consider financially supporting us. Over time it will definitely improve the pace of the project.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

This is what people don't seem to realise. Making a good, quality game is not easy work. There are plenty of H-game developers whose games would be called shovelware if not for the adult content, and even some of the better ones fall into that category.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I appreciate you guys and your work. You seem to have the situation under control as much as you can right now.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

And I understand and respect your reluctance to wait, but saying that there's no progress or it's crawling is not really fair then.

Hmmm...well, you might be putting words in my mouth regarding NO progress; I don't think I said that at all (even the person with whom I partially agreed didn't say that either). As far as "crawling", that may be just my own perception (and I still stand by that perception), and I don't necessarily mean that as an insult as you may be taking it, since to my own public eye and non-dev eye, progress appears slow comparative to other H-games...which you also address and with which I absolutely do not have a problem, given the scope of this project is far greater than most.

However, if you take offense, I apologize--again, as devs, you've been attentive, cordial, and engaged with reviewers/critics and I hope it stays that way. Perhaps "crawling" might too harsh or rude of a word. It's simply that, with a game of this magnitude, it's just my own opinion that (as a neutral party and not a dev) I'd trade some of the underlying details and the "perfectness" of the game for a faster pace. You must understand as players, we've all seen devs who bite off more than they can chew, and it actually appears the norm for H-game culture...everything that has potential is stuck in a beta/demo/development process for years and years until people lose interest or technology/features in the game become obsolete, and the game gets abandoned, squashed by the gravity of the game's potential vs the willingness of the public or the developers to see it through. Patreons may get tired of burning through money (or not...even Akabur still has some left).

To say "we're different" is swell, and again, your talents and what you've shown are quite promising. Just forgive me and a few other naysayers, as I've heard and seen that before. I don't mean to discourage; I just mean to express my apprehension on the project and my concern it will be just like every other H-game. Eromancer has already assuaged me for the time being in what he has posted earlier. I feel that, as a developer, it would be prudent to understand the paradigms/general concerns of the H-gaming community and not only address them but also offer empathy.

addressing concerns

Thanks, this helps. Believe me, while I'm no dev and have no experience with making a game, I deeply respect the amount of time and effort put forth on something like this, as I could never take on this sort of project. I don't think I've ever stated otherwise. My frustrations and worries are on another avenue. That being all said, I'll just continue to lurk on this thread (I check it daily, since this project is so big and the community quite active) and let you go back to work.
 
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Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Hmmm...well, you might be putting words in my mouth regarding NO progress; I don't think I said that at all (even the person with whom I partially agreed didn't say that either). As far as "crawling", that may be just my own perception (and I still stand by that perception), and I don't necessarily mean that as an insult as you may be taking it, since to my own public eye and non-dev eye, progress appears slow comparative to other H-games...which you also address and with which I absolutely do not have a problem, given the scope of this project is far greater than most.

However, if you take offense, I apologize--again, as devs, you've been attentive, cordial, and engaged with reviewers/critics and I hope it stays that way. Perhaps "crawling" might too harsh or rude of a word. It's simply that, with a game of this magnitude, it's just my own opinion that (as a neutral party and not a dev) I'd trade some of the underlying details and the "perfectness" of the game for a faster pace. You must understand as players, we've all seen devs who bite off more than they can chew, and it actually appears the norm for H-game culture...everything that has potential is stuck in a beta/demo/development process for years and years until people lose interest or technology/features in the game become obsolete, and the game gets abandoned, squashed by the gravity of the game's potential vs the willingness of the public or the developers to see it through. Patreons may get tired of burning through money (or not...even Akabur still has some left).

To say "we're different" is swell, and again, your talents and what you've shown are quite promising. Just forgive me and a few other naysayers, as I've heard and seen that before. I don't mean to discourage; I just mean to express my apprehension on the project and my concern it will be just like every other H-game. Eromancer has already assuaged me for the time being in what he has posted earlier. I feel that, as a developer, it would be prudent to understand the paradigms/general concerns of the H-gaming community and not only address them but also offer empathy.
(...)
Yes, you're right, "no progress" was directed at someone, who probably doesn't even visit ULMF and it was an unnecessary generalization. It's just there was few comments like no/slow progress lately and for some reason they really got on my nerves, so I most likely overreacted a bit here, sorry for that.
Also, we're aware that the longer the development period drags, the more impatient people will get and that it may bite us in the ass, so we're doing the best we can to avoid such situation.
And there's nothing to forgive... we're not only developers, but players and patrons as well, and we understand how someone waiting for the game feels, and what concerns he may have. As for empathy - you're right, but this applies to players as well, and while most people are understanding, those few who aren't are ruining the atmosphere, which in turn can lead to misinterpretations or misunderstandings.
Well, back to coding then ^^.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Yes, you're right, "no progress" was directed at someone, who probably doesn't even visit ULMF and it was an unnecessary generalization. It's just there was few comments like no/slow progress lately and for some reason they really got on my nerves, so I most likely overreacted a bit here, sorry for that.
Also, we're aware that the longer the development period drags, the more impatient people will get and that it may bite us in the ass, so we're doing the best we can to avoid such situation.
And there's nothing to forgive... we're not only developers, but players and patrons as well, and we understand how someone waiting for the game feels, and what concerns he may have. As for empathy - you're right, but this applies to players as well, and while most people are understanding, those few who aren't are ruining the atmosphere, which in turn can lead to misinterpretations or misunderstandings.
Well, back to coding then ^^.
It is only natural that the progress of this game feels like it is very slow.
A standard H Game with CR and stuff takes about 6 months to a year.
You usually have 2-6 dungeons with 2 normal enemies+a boss, and a Vanilla rpgm system that is slighty altered with premade scripts that you can dl of the internet, besides that, almost all sprites and mapsets are premade.
MatM however has everything completely custom made.
Custom made scripts, sprites, mapsets. They have multiple completely different postions for the H-scenes and they make them high quality. They completely rewrite and test their scripts. They have an unique battle system. They actually make dungeons that are not generated by the rpg maker to run from A to B. And they completely rewrite everything now and then because they want to make really high quality game. Just look at the battle system in V0.01 and the one now. From the customer stand point it is a drag. Yes. AltairLP really put it in the right words. But you can't put it against the devs, because things taking a way long time doesn't necessarily means the devs are slow. In the end we want an enjoyable H-Game and not some CircleKame bs
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Alright, I've finally played the most recent version. I've been patreon-ing it since the public demo, but I had never actually played any of the release since then (the mentions of the hellish fuse puzzle pushed me away, and I didn't feel like playing h-stuff too much in that time frame). So here's my comments in no particular order from someone who went from the public release to the current one:

- The "side-scrolling" sections looks amazing.

- The containment area looks super creepy and disturbing.

- I really hate the "music" during the h-scenes (the screaming mainly). Rest of the music is great, but the screaming is so bad I had to take off my headphones.

- I played in "Wait for Input and Action" mode. The fighting overall is fun, and deciding which attacks to cancel and when is more involved than the average JRPG. Play time was 1.5 hours. I think I found all the chests.

- How much H-content did I get for Neon and Malise? None. I played "optimally" in battles (interrupt enemy skills) but I never backtracked to an healing point. I had a character stuck in Constrict or Hand Trap level 1 for a few seconds, but that's about it. No armor broken, and lust barely going over level 1 for Neon only.

I expect that's going to be quite different outside of "Wait" mode since it's a lot harder to interrupt everything; I'll have to give it a try sometime. On Wait mode, you aren't going to see any h-content unless you voluntarily let yourself be hit. But that's probably fine since Wait is pretty much an "easy" mode.

- Second boss is pretty simple from a gameplay perspective, but from an aesthetics standpoint she's amazing.

- I had already played the public version, but I was still amazed at how high-quality this game is. Seriously, the presentation is top-notch, and even in the non-h world I can't even think of any RPG with that great-looking battles outside of multi-million budget games.

- I prefer Neon's default armor over the new one, but it still looks pretty good. Glad to see that changing the armor is optional and not forced. I see that the Heal skill was not compatible with the new armor. Is it planned to have multiple armors being viable throughout the game?

- I was expecting Ven's scene to be about her having to "endure" the Vioreaper in midair so that she didn't fall. That'd be pretty terrifying (which seems to be the goal of those scenes); maybe an idea for sometime in the future. Regarding the scene that did happen, it was pretty good. I'm surprised that there was some animations; I thought that was outside the scope of the project! Anyway, they worked fine here in my opinion.

Overall I'm pretty happy with what I've played in this new version. Thanks for the great work and keep it up!
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Alright, I've finally played the most recent version. I've been patreon-ing it since the public demo, but I had never actually played any of the release since then (the mentions of the hellish fuse puzzle pushed me away, and I didn't feel like playing h-stuff too much in that time frame). So here's my comments in no particular order from someone who went from the public release to the current one:

- The "side-scrolling" sections looks amazing.

- The containment area looks super creepy and disturbing.

- I really hate the "music" during the h-scenes (the screaming mainly). Rest of the music is great, but the screaming is so bad I had to take off my headphones.

- I played in "Wait for Input and Action" mode. The fighting overall is fun, and deciding which attacks to cancel and when is more involved than the average JRPG. Play time was 1.5 hours. I think I found all the chests.

- How much H-content did I get for Neon and Malise? None. I played "optimally" in battles (interrupt enemy skills) but I never backtracked to an healing point. I had a character stuck in Constrict or Hand Trap level 1 for a few seconds, but that's about it. No armor broken, and lust barely going over level 1 for Neon only.

I expect that's going to be quite different outside of "Wait" mode since it's a lot harder to interrupt everything; I'll have to give it a try sometime. On Wait mode, you aren't going to see any h-content unless you voluntarily let yourself be hit. But that's probably fine since Wait is pretty much an "easy" mode.

- Second boss is pretty simple from a gameplay perspective, but from an aesthetics standpoint she's amazing.

- I had already played the public version, but I was still amazed at how high-quality this game is. Seriously, the presentation is top-notch, and even in the non-h world I can't even think of any RPG with that great-looking battles outside of multi-million budget games.

- I prefer Neon's default armor over the new one, but it still looks pretty good. Glad to see that changing the armor is optional and not forced. I see that the Heal skill was not compatible with the new armor. Is it planned to have multiple armors being viable throughout the game?

- I was expecting Ven's scene to be about her having to "endure" the Vioreaper in midair so that she didn't fall. That'd be pretty terrifying (which seems to be the goal of those scenes); maybe an idea for sometime in the future. Regarding the scene that did happen, it was pretty good. I'm surprised that there was some animations; I thought that was outside the scope of the project! Anyway, they worked fine here in my opinion.

Overall I'm pretty happy with what I've played in this new version. Thanks for the great work and keep it up!

That part about the music is kind of creepy, because there are no vocals @_@. Screaming synths maybe :D?

Your feedback from the perspective of someone who used the 'Wait' mode all the way through is really useful. For anyone that's capable of it I'd definitely recommend playing in 'Active' mode and to use pause to think about moves or check out the art. In the survey we put out awhile back we (surprisingly to us) had the majority of users saying they use one of the Wait modes. We also had a significant number of people say they didn't see much H content in battle, and while this is something I'm taking really seriously as the battle system progresses I'm also now wondering how strong the correlation is to the player's battle time mode.

About armor, that's correct. The various types will be associated with different skill sets and roles for the characters, and their stats will eventually reflect that better. It's not obvious yet, but the equipment system is going to be pretty in depth, and is one of the main areas we've yet to really focus on.

Regarding animations, it definitely was completely outside the scope before, but we made so many optimizations this last cycle to our workflow (and I'm trying to progress as an artist) that it's become more plausible for certain parts. There will definitely be more :D.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

We also had a significant number of people say they didn't see much H content in battle, and while this is something I'm taking really seriously as the battle system progresses I'm also now wondering how strong the correlation is to the player's battle time mode.

That's most likely it. I've done a new playthrough up to where you get Malise on Active mode (with manual struggling off) and my experience was different. No matter how fast you go, selecting your command and the enemy to hit still takes a little bit of time, and that bit of time is often the difference between being able to interrupt an enemy skill or not. Plus that the player (well, me at least) will sometime make mistakes when trying to go too fast.

While I didn't get any h-situations before the boss, I did get up to 1000 lust with a broken armor so I most likely would have some the next time I faced one of the harder battles (Like the 2x + big robot group; I only got it once and it was where I got most of the lust). If I didn't know exactly what to do I'd have got those fights.

After the boss and healing, I nearly died in the very first battle against two of the mini fleshfathers and got caught pretty deep in their h-attacks. If it was on wait, I would have had time to stop the first constrict and probably have won with no issues. I went back to heal, and on the way to Malise I got a 2x bee + mini fleshfather, where a miss on a constrict interrupt caused me to get up from 0 lust to 1000 lust in one fight (I got out early but got heavily damaged, and I had to heal while getting pummeled by Toxic Strikes), and got my armor broken on the following fight against three little robots. I got to Malise right there, so I narrowly evaded trouble again.

It's much harder on Active mode, and I had to use a lot more healing items than in my Wait mode. My Lust levels got much higher in all sections, and my armor got broken both times. I very narrowly evaded getting in h-scenes (except for that one constrict + followup), but I was literally one hard fight away from it, unlike my super leisurely Wait run.

On top of Active vs Wait, I feel that what enemies you encounter makes a big difference on how much h-content you get (and if you are going to get a game over). Encountering hard groups makes a heck of a difference. The two bees + something else group means that you have to take a lot of Lust damage (and armor if you get a robot too); but if you rarely encounter bee groups you barely will get lust even in Active mode.

But yes, it looks like Active vs Wait mode is the biggest culprit behind the difference in how much h-content different players get.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

Regarding animations, it definitely was completely outside the scope before, but we made so many optimizations this last cycle to our workflow (and I'm trying to progress as an artist) that it's become more plausible for certain parts. There will definitely be more :D.

I loved the demo so far. It took me awhile to realize that the robot enemies dropped amps (I ran from them most of the time), so there was a few minutes of running around desperately looking for unopened chests.

If you have the time/resources, it would be awesome if the first story H scene would be redone as animated like the newer one. It was the hottest scene IMO, and the image panning doesn't quite do it justice. Completely understandable if this can't be done, as I'm sure there will be plenty other scenes to look forward to. :)
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I think it's a mistake to balance the main game difficulty around feedback calling for a harder game, because the people who don't have any problems with the difficulty aren't mentioning it. If you want to please both camps, I suggest added an optional "hard mode".

Also, one of the reasons some people aren't much h-content is because it mostly comes in the form of debilitating attacks. Playing well means seeing less porn, and if you power up the enemies arsenal of h-attacks, that's going to make the gameplay far more obnoxious. I don't want to have the Malboro-style "death by status effect overload" happen, even when I'm playing to avoid it.
 
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Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I think it's a mistake to balance the main game difficulty around feedback calling for a harder game, because the people who don't have any problems with the difficulty aren't mentioning it. If you want to please both camps, I suggest added an optional "hard mode".

Also, one of the reasons some people aren't much h-content is because it mostly comes in the form of debilitating attacks. Playing well means seeing less porn, and if you power up the enemies arsenal of h-attacks, that's going to make the gameplay far more obnoxious. I don't want to have the Malboro-style "death by status effect overload" happen, even when I'm playing to avoid it.
Both aspects mentioned by you are a matter of good balancing.
We have similar stance on difficulty and rather than making one setting for all, we will implement some kind of difficulty "slider", which will allow everyone to enjoy the game, no matter if the player is casual, hardcore, or however he wants to call himself ;). Till then however we have to make do with what we have now and adjust it accordingly if the need arises.
As for h-content frequency, as a result of few internal discussions we have few ideas how to deal with it, but it will probably have to wait a bit, since we still have to flesh out few related things that can change this a lot.
 
Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

I think it's a mistake to balance the main game difficulty around feedback calling for a harder game, because the people who don't have any problems with the difficulty aren't mentioning it. If you want to please both camps, I suggest added an optional "hard mode".

Also, one of the reasons some people aren't much h-content is because it mostly comes in the form of debilitating attacks. Playing well means seeing less porn, and if you power up the enemies arsenal of h-attacks, that's going to make the gameplay far more obnoxious. I don't want to have the Malboro-style "death by status effect overload" happen, even when I'm playing to avoid it.

Sorry for the delay in responding-- I've been processing this topic for the past few days.

I definitely agree here. In games like this, difficulty and gameplay-based H content frequency are innately linked. This is fine as long as the player's skills match the difficulty and they can have fun with it. Adding more explicit difficulty settings is as AltairPL mentioned a likelihood in some form, though it's not something I want to touch quite yet.

What I've been getting at in my recent comments however is a related but specific issue, and I believe there's a bit of a that I'd really like to come up with a solution to.

Keep in mind as I continue that we've still yet to test ideas for skills for mid/late game. We plan to make kind of a test arena in near future updates to experiment with skill ideas and get player feedback, and this may resolve itself naturally as gameplay gets more developed, but it's still something I'm really thinking hard about and want to investigate possible solutions for.

To reiterate the last few posts, the problem is likely that players using Input Wait Mode aren't seeing much H content organically. I believe the culprit is being able to really easily interrupt grapples in Input Wait Mode.

From user feedback, I've gathered that people who choose to play on Input Wait Mode do it because they either "want time to see the H visuals", or because active mode is too hectic and thus is difficult for them. Unfortunately, (and this is where your second point comes in Slam Sector) due to how easy it is to interrupt grapples in wait mode, they effectively cut off organically seeing battle H content.

The catch 22 is this: these players either have lots of H content and can't enjoy it, or they have no H content but have infinite time to enjoy it.

In both cases you end up with a dissatisfied player. I know we can't please everyone, but as AltairPL says we want to make it accessible and enjoyable to as many players as possible, so it's worth investigating in my opinion.

The question is therefore, what do you guys think are some possible ways to improve this? I'm actually going to post this for discussion on the Inner Circle forums as well.
 
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Re: Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!

My main recommendation revolves around two things;

Currently there is no way to manage lust at all, and when it's maxed out it becomes practically impossible to escape, so say you have your lust go up to see some of the H content and you get exactly that, then you had that and want to carry on, except now you're bogged down by a lust status you cannot remove that hinders your progress dramatically. Something like a simple sedative item that gives players more control over lust and with it the dosage of H attacks would help a lot. One of the main issues right now is that with high lust you occasionally end up in H-attack limbo where the enemies just keep chaining lust attack after lust attack with no real means of breaking the chain.

In that same vein, make struggling a LOT more effective, having two characters spend two rounds and nearly half their energy to have one character escape a grab is ludicrous, and it turns a bothersome status effect into a damn chore to deal with (this is also a bother when for example trying to get a certain variant scene, having it be hard to escape when you get the wrong variant is just irritating) For this I'd mainly recommend changing the mechanic of having your other character do greatly reduced damage to grappling enemies and turning it around. Basically the enemy is too busy doing the do which allows your other character to do massive critical damage to it, turning being grabbed from an annoyance to an opportunity.

There's still trouble when both characters get grabbed, and you could even introduce a mechanic where if a grappled character gets the enemy she's involved with killed they'd still lose some time escaping.
 
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