VN/TEXT Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

[KHTA]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Just because Gae Bolg takes low magical energy I don't think it's still spamable, to use Magical energy in the Fate universe I think requires you to gather it and focus it, so if Lancer is under attack he can't use Gae Bolg and if he tries a surprise attack, Servants can sense each other so they can probably sense him from a mile away and decide to fight or flight before he got in range to use Gae Bolg. Lancer isn't the best in 1v1 because he needs distance to use his Gae Bolg effectively, so if someone already knows who he is he will be at a disadvantage if he couldn't gain distance.

Yup, he would have to gather and focus it, but thanks to the fact that it's low magical energy Lancer can use this move much faster than Saber can use Excalibur. And the only real distance he needs to set up is the same ideal distance a polearm user needs for attacks (this was the exact distance he was from both Saber and Archer when they first fought). Out of reach long enough to use a counter if need be, plus Lancer was the fastest servant so getting the distance shouldn't be too hard.

Lancer vs. Archer, hmm...that's a tough fight. You can believe there would be no UBW as Lancer wouldn't give him time. But Archer's projection would still have Lancer on the ropes IF he uses it. Archer seems to love fighting Lancer solely with his twin swords.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Exactly, which is why I always say... Lancer vs Archer in the VNs were without justice for the both of them.
In the case of Saber, I really think that if Saber is on the offensive, Lancer wouldn't be able to Gae Bolg at all because Saber at full power close combat is unbeatable and she's almost as fast as Lancer so she should be able to catch up if Lancer stops and tries to Gae Bolg and slash him before he gets it off. The reason Lancer got Gae Bolg off on her at the beginning of F/SN was because she had yet to know what Lancer's Noble is and she wasn't able to use her full strength so when Lancer made distance between them she didn't rush in and keep on whacking him.
But of course, fighting is more than just comparing the abilities, there's also mind games and what not like what Archer was doing. Baiting and countering and all this other jazz about predicting and planning ahead. So Lancer could've won any of the battle he's in or lost all of them. It's just that people saying Lancer can just use Gae Bolg and be insta-win is a bit underestamating the other servants' abilities as a fighter and a "hero".

 

[MysticEyes]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

I'm pretty sure if Lancer had fully enhanced himself with runes beforehand, Gae Bolg would have shattered Rho Aius and probably impaled Archer pretty well. Who knows. Though when you really think about it, all the fights that you think Lancer SHOULD win, he probably would never do so due to the fact that Lancers have a horrific Luck stat.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Ha, Archer also has horrible luck stat, they are both E.
And we don't really know what the Runes do, as far as I know it can be used for basic magic attacks, but I don't know if the Runes actually power up Lancer any, hell for all we know, it might take magical energy and weaken him slighty instead.

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Yup, he would have to gather and focus it, but thanks to the fact that it's low magical energy Lancer can use this move much faster than Saber can use Excalibur. And the only real distance he needs to set up is the same ideal distance a polearm user needs for attacks (this was the exact distance he was from both Saber and Archer when they first fought). Out of reach long enough to use a counter if need be, plus Lancer was the fastest servant so getting the distance shouldn't be too hard.

Lancer vs. Archer, hmm...that's a tough fight. You can believe there would be no UBW as Lancer wouldn't give him time. But Archer's projection would still have Lancer on the ropes IF he uses it. Archer seems to love fighting Lancer solely with his twin swords.

personally I think that archer likes to use just his swords to fight lancer because of his memories of getting near-murdered by him. Probably a personal game for him to prove just how far along he's come. Though, they seem to have a definite rivalry thing going on. Luck E or no those two would make one hell of a team

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

No, I don't think that's the case.
I think it's more that he never had the chance to prepare to fight Lancer in any of the times really, and he's not suicidal, he knows that fighting Lancer in close-combat without using his UBW won't be a battle he can win, it's just the circumstances in the game have always forced him to fight Lancer in close-combat. More importantly, Archer isn't the kind of person that would treat the fight as a "game" and gamble on close-combat if he had the leisure to choose.

 

[KHTA]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

I don't know, like I said Archer still had projection which he can use nearly instantly. I don't think it's a personal game, but Archer indeed intended to finish Lancer using nay but his twin swords (for offense at least).

Also about Saber being unbeatable in close combat....you're giving her WAY too much credit. She is the strongest Servant (class wise) and probably the best choice in that Servant class but you're forgetting quite a few things. Lancers (not class but period) excel at keeping swordmen at bay, and Lancer can be considered one of the best.

Secondly, it was seen in the VN that Saber had trouble fighting Assassin (AFTER getting her true power back) who was another sword wielder and even admitted that she could have lost to him had she not figured out how to counter his technique.

Lastly, saying she only got hit because she didn't know his Noble is simply a excuse. That's the whole point of the war. And the only thing that saved her was her Luck. Even at full power, that could have easily (<-keyword there) been the end for her. Because he could have still made that opening, she would have still observed him (she does that a lot to learn the nature of attacks), and her luck could have simply failed her.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Indeed, Lancer could've killed ANY servant easily, but I still think I am not giving Saber too much credit because she really is the strongest close-combat wise, there are many CLOSE to the strongest and if not for different circumstances, Saber could've easily been taken down by anyone of the other servants. That IS the point of the servants is that any servant could kill any other servant, but the fact is she is unbeatable unless under very specific circumstances, while yes Lancer has weapon range advantage, but Saber with her passive skills and etc. wouldn't just lose to Lancer either. But then again, Lancer could NEVER have a serious battle with any servants so we never know for sure who has an advantage because we all know he will be ran over by a car, stuck by Lightning, or get hit by a dangerously high speed volleyball and have his skull smashed the moment the fight gets truly serious.
And still, even with his Noble, has anyone actually DIED against his Noble?

 

[MysticEyes]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Technically, he did take Shirou's heart. >_>

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Was it his noble?

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Was it his noble?

he didn't call out it's name but he did in fact impale shirou with his spear. Using a noble on a mere human is overkill. Also it's a technicality but Gil used it to kill berserker in UBW

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Yes, but I specifically said his Noble.
And Gil's Noble is Gate of Babylon, so the Gae Bolg he uses wouldn't count either.

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

By your specific wording, I don't think he's ever used the actual noble to kill any one, no. closest he came was his near miss with saber.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Indeed...
Which is why I think people over credit his OP sounding Noble into that he can probably beat everyone with it without breaking a sweat.
On another note, anyone has a translated MeltyBlood?
I can't find my english translated version of it... QQ.
And since MU died I can't RE-find it.
I feel like Sioning since I saw her in Carnival.

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

well, lancer's noble is the most efficient one of any I've seen including Zero. The premise being I throw it, you die with a next to zero chance of failure. I'm pretty sure the only reason saber survived it is in fact due to her incredible attributes. She's got an B Luck and A in Instinct
Gae Bolg's description even states that to avoid it one needs a high luck as you are in fact changing fate itself with incredible luck. I kind of doubt even the other servants that have a B luck or better aside from Gil would be able to avoid it since they lack skills like Saber's instinct to assist.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

That's where it gets you see.
It is very dangerous sure, and highly lethal, but it can be blocked or overpowered, just not dodged(easily).
That's why in concept and theory it is very powerful, but in practicality against others, it might not work as well as expected.
So effecient in theory, but the situation changes the circumstances a lot.

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

honestly, of the servants that FSN featured I suspect only 3 stand any chance of dealing with lancer's Noble. Saber, Berserker and Gilgamesh.
with saber we have proof she can do it. Berserker could just take it and move in for oral rape time. Gilgamesh has enough Nobles to work with he can just keep him from using it.
Archer even admitted that he was saved by shirou's untimely arrival. Caster, well she's pretty fragile. Rider is seriously weak without her mount. Assassin, well, I just don't think he has the ability to avoid it should it go off.
From what I've seen the best defense is an aggressive offense. enough that Lancer can't gather the necessary mana to use it. Something that I think isn't practical when one can't go all out since it's likely to reveal more about your servant than one wants to.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Yes, the best defensive against Lancer is a good offense or a over whelming attack that catches Lancer off guard which Caster and Archer both have, Archer's even have insane range since he IS an Archer. All in all though, my point is that, yes his Noble is OP, but you can just expect him to win a fight purely by relying on that Noble or he's gonna get killed.

 

[tycho0042]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Yes, the best defensive against Lancer is a good offense or a over whelming attack that catches Lancer off guard which Caster and Archer both have, Archer's even have insane range since he IS an Archer. All in all though, my point is that, yes his Noble is OP, but you can just expect him to win a fight purely by relying on that Noble or he's gonna get killed.

You can't really expect ANY of the servants to rely purely on their noble. What makes Lancer's dangerous is it's virtually guaranteed to work. It literally changes cause and effect to make sure your heart is hit. It takes notably less mana to use than anyone else's noble with the possible exception of Caster since her's has such a limited spectrum or Berserker's which is passive.
There's a reason Saber admired it's efficiency.

Archer's kind of a mutant from what I've seen so far. Then again the fate games so far have only produced one that I would normally consider an actual archer. He wasn't even canon. Extra's archer is the only one I'd consider to be a real archer. Gil's just using cheat codes(I iz archer 'cuz I noble spam, lol) and Archer I'd say is just strange. Yes, he does have a bow but it just doesn't seem like it's his actual preference. I would think that one would lean towards their class preferences in choices of weapons but he'd much rather use those two short swords than a bow. He's truly good with a bow but I think he'd rather not use it because it's boring. Perhaps I'm reading too far into it.

 

[ZeroSpace]

Re: Nanie's Type-Moon Thread

Archer's in the Archer class because of his eyes and that fact that his range effectiveness is higher than his twin blade skills. TBH, he uses his UBW to draw out "swords" as arrows and shoots them at people so technically I think he can shoot a Gae Bolg he made at someone and have it's effect of going for someone's heart, it might not be as strong as Lancer's original Gae Bolg but that's what I think happens. He is also an archer because of his basis for using UBW, his noble and his magic in general follows his archer mentality(Which is the 7 or 8 steps he follows to shoot an arrow, which he also uses to unlock his potential/understanding of his ability.) when he was a human.
Granted yes, he does appear with his swords more, but then again I don't see him having chance without his swords either because none of his circumstances allow him to fight without his swords. Seems like every scenario in the game has him in a close combat fight. It's like how the story wants Lancer dead, they want Archer to use close combat swords because it's more intense than a rain of arrows from a really far away person not in any danger.
So yes, he uses his swords because those Type-Moon people find him using a bow "boring".
And I've said all I can about Lancer, his noble is dangerous and very deadly but it never works out that way.