(Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

[Blahblahblacksheep]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

You really should stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

As Lafate said, our complaints HAVE reached the devs before, so you're already wrong about that.

Have they resulted in what we wanted? Not always. But they still get there, even if it takes NutakuDev's assurance whenever he pops up to get the damn word out.

What I find annoying is your constant "blame the fans" mentality when we've given the devs the benefit of the doubt for a good half-year before the hack fiasco and they really dropped the ball to showcase their mentality on the difference between our two servers.

To them, we *ARE* second-rate citizens. There's no other excuse for our server getting fixed weeks after the main server, AND us getting less compensation for it. That's why we have to keep clamoring for so much more at this point. What the fuck else do you want us to do? Just throw money and hope they change their minds?

It's not a "blame the fans" mentality. It's a "this is not japan" mentality. It's something I consider natural but which neither you nor Lafate nor most of the vocal objectionists will even acknowledge as a valid point of view. You can't even consider the possibility that this japanese game controlled by japanese developers might be better in japanese as a natural conclusion rather than some outright discrimination on their part.

Can you call it discrimination? Yes. Does that seem accurate or helpful to me? Not any more than saying that Barnes and Noble discriminates against foreign authors compared to domestic ones because they carry more of the latter's books than the former.

I'm not saying "We have it worse than Japan does and always will. Get used to second-class citizenship". I'm saying that is the default setting. Wanting more is fine -- I want more, too. If we get the game up to DMM standards everybody wins. I'm not expecting it to happen next week though, or next month, and everyone seems to think this is unfathomable even though that's the pace that's been set since day one. We've been accelerating lately, in fact, rather than decelerating. We've gotten a lot more events recently than we did before the 6 week break.

I don't know how you take that information and say "That's not even close to good enough." You want more. You want it now. That's great and all, but if you can't curb your enthusiasm you'll probably be happier playing the DMM version. That's just a simple fact. One that I don't envision is about to change anytime soon (Even though, you, I, and many others wouldn't complain a bit if it did).

And to address your "they are the same developers" comment Lafate, that's as accurate as saying Bill Gates and a Microsoft Certified Technician are "the same people". They may work in the same building, but they do not do the same work. If both teams (DMM and English aigis) had "the same developers" and the same deadlines, the whole of English aigis would have been fired by now. It's obvious this is not the case.

 

[Sashas]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

First Year DMM vs First Year Nutaku

You forgot to mention auto complete, trading post changes, updated mechanics, shop changes and tutorial unit changes.

I know some of these things may be hard to find out on the jp side but it feels biased without them.

 

[Larcx]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I learned something today
Aigis Nutaku are not the same developer with that the one who did Aigis DMM
So they are totally different
Hmm.... I wonder why there is no copyright law issue??

Shouldn't they sue each other?

I.... confused......

 

[Eab1990]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

It's not a "blame the fans" mentality. It's a "this is not japan" mentality.

Look at your previous post(s) again and tell me how the hell I was supposed to come to that conclusion.

You've given a lot of leeway for a dev team that has actively screwed us this past year. Not just with what's missing, but what's been prioritized. I don't see how "it's Japan" excuses the random assortment of updates or lack of updates. I'm on my phone right now, but I'll make a list in a bit.

Here's what I have, for starters.

You must be registered to see the links

Tell me again how "it's Japan" is an excuse for half of these coming to pass.

While we're at it, I'd like to draw attention to "Implementing revival/post-AW mechanics for first-time events." How on earth do you excuse this behavior? At best, it's incompetence borne from laziness of not properly balancing mechanics. At worst, it's exploiting the playerbase to get them to unnecessarily spend SCs for buffs/recharges because of being unprepared for the sudden difficulty spike.

 

[Larcx]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Japan mentality
Love Girls , Love pussy (Well we are too)
Want every new girl for theirself
VIVA HAREM!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we got some whales in western side who are not losing to Japanese people
If Insanedar said is true
He contribute his paycheck and spent 1150 SC for the dev (God Bless U m8)
And if again what Lafate said is true
About our side give the dev profit high enough that could rival Japanese people

Why atleast they cannot increase their staff for English side?

Ah..... or maybe we do have different developer after all :V

 

[Sashas]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I learned something today
Aigis Nutaku are not the same developer with that the one who did Aigis DMM
So they are totally different
Hmm.... I wonder why there is no copyright law issue??

Shouldn't they sue each other?

I.... confused......

Don't worry, things are not very clear here.


"Aigis devs" made and update Aigis while DMM published it in Japan
"Aigis devs" later agreed to let nutaku publish worldwide and "Aigis devs" are again doing all the work updating it.

"Aigis devs" are the developer (who we don't actually know the name of)
DMM is the Japanese publisher
nutaku is the worldwide publisher

 

[Blahblahblacksheep]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

To be more precise, "Aigis devs" are the copyright holders for the development of both games, Aegis Thousand Year War (DMM Aigis) and Millenium Wars Aigis (English Aigis). They are the development company in total.

Under this company there is a division responsible for Aegis Thousand Year War (DMM Aigis) which has much of the company's resources behind it. Programmers, Artists, etc., that are responsible for implementing new mechanics, new enemies, new events, new units, etc., everything you see in the DMM game.

The division that works on our Aigis (and signs our news updates, "The Millenium War Aigis Development Team") is a much smaller fraction of the development company. To further confuse the issue, it is possible that there are employees who work on both games, are a part of both development teams. These would be literally "the same developers" that Lafate would be talking about. However, not all of the same developers would be on both teams. Furthermore, they perform functionally different tasks - one is constantly creating new content, while the other is translating, updating, and stitching together old and new content.

Lafate and others like to point at the big company and say "They have enough resources to do English Aigis better" as their argument. This is true, but those resources do not currently exist in the *English Development Team*. They could bring more help from the DMM Team, they could hire more people, but that's all their decision to make since they hold the copyright to the game.

The wishful thinking extension of this is, "Well if English Aigis is making more money, won't they hire more people?" Maybe. It's their call on whether to invest more money and resources - as well as when and how - into English Aigis in the hopes that they get more business, or to be happy with what they have. It's also possible that adding more manpower to the team may not necessarily expedite it. This is a common problem in programming; coordinating a sufficiently large amount of employees can consume more time than is gained by adding more people.

Nutaku sometimes obtains development rights for the games it publishes, which would mean if we are not happy with the development of a game it makes sense to complain to them. They do not own the rights for English Aigis, so they have very little control of its development outside of relaying some of our concerns/desires/etc.

 

[anon423]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

The division that works on our Aigis (and signs our news updates, "The Millenium War Aigis Development Team") is a much smaller fraction of the development company. To further confuse the issue, it is possible that there are employees who work on both games, are a part of both development teams. These would be literally "the same developers" that Lafate would be talking about. However, not all of the same developers would be on both teams. Furthermore, they perform functionally different tasks - one is constantly creating new content, while the other is translating, updating, and stitching together old and new content.

And of course you can provide credible sources for these claims, right?
You are just making up stuff out of thin air in hopeless attempt to justify completely unjustifiable discriminative practices.

 

[Nattorei]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

It's actually more than fair considering we're looking at the Anniversary being in only 8 days. Looking at DMM/JP Aigis, they had the "Adventures of Anna" event for their first year anniversary event, they were FAR more along in events than we are in the same time frame. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand that Nutaku Aigis getting so many week breaks of no event is a bad thing for the game, the dev team, and the players. If you want to be able to play a game for free, expect to be able to get everything, and just walk all over every event, go play a different game....and make it a single player console game that does not get weekly/bi-weekly updates/events, because that play style mentality is 1990s....

Yes, we've skipped over Yurina entirely, we all know this by now, and if someone doesn't, they're living under a rock or just started playing today and don't know who Yurina is. We've skipped over Chloe, Kagura and Noel's events, so those 3 events together, is maybe a month worth of "skipped events" which doesn't even include the 2 skipped Gold Rushes and the 2 skipped 1.5x Drop events, then compare with the amount of "week breaks" Nutaku Aigis has had in it's lifetime. Even if it was the same amount of time, we shouldn't be this far behind in events and content.

You've mentioned how we shouldn't compare the two versions of the game to each other for some reason or other, and that's actually a stupid idea. The players should be putting pressure on the Aigis devs to pick up the pace. No, not Nutaku Devs, they don't have any pull in what happens, they're a middle man and they're limited in what they can do for the players. Lafate's post earlier was fucking amazing, it shows just how far behind we are and makes it that much easier to realize how we're capable of handling these post-awakening events without having access to awakening. Too many breaks, not enough content to get a bigger variety of units, we're literally just powering through events with max lv units.

@Nattorei, not directing "all" of the comments here towards you specifically, its a mix of responses to you and a rant, because this subject gets hashed, rehashed, and re-rehashed, every week, multiple times a week. Also kind of happy KanColle is starting an event next week, I'll be paying more attention to that than this thread for its duration.

I understand that breaks are bad. I understand that we've been, if some would so use the crudeness, treated unfairly or even oppressively. But I agree with Blacksheep in that we'll never get the treatment that we want, even if for no other reason than that the devs just don't care, which could be case. I am hopeful that things will change. I understand that they most likely will not. I look at what we do have and can find satisfaction with the "lesser" product.

My problem with Lafate's post is that it lacks context. We are behind, but does that mean anything? Not really. Give us AW and the everything goes back to the minimize/eliminate break issue. GRs we are predisposed to not get. 1.5x drop rate we are predisposed to not get and are just glorified break weeks. Most of the units he listed exist in the future. Noel, Kagura, Chloe, and possibly Dorothy are missing because of the loli issue which isn't something anyone can do anything about other than, again, hope that they were greenlighted and hope the devs get them in. The only thing we really have every right to question, in my opinion, is Yurina and revivals.

But this is how it has been since the literal launch day. Yes the fish thing is bad, and having postAW events without AW is bad. No excuse. But we have to deal with it, quit, or complain in some form and hope the complaining does something. Things have been getting, overall, better.

And of course you can provide credible sources for these claims, right?
You are just making up stuff out of thin air in hopeless attempt to justify completely unjustifiable discriminative practices.

No one knows anything. Every side is wrong in this argument.

What we do know is this: the devs of Aigis are not stupid. They've made a fantastic and successful little game (what are these types of games even called?). They have proven themselves competent in just about every area concerning their own original game. What this says about our version though...

 

[eliont]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

New videos from my guildmates: princesses Olivia and Sybilla, Solano + Legendary Thunser Deity Zeus from Dragon Providence.
Blog now SFW until you open post.

 

[Dragonpaladin]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Blahblahblacksheep's post explaining Aigis Development Team is annoying so let me quickly slowly go through the JP dev teams history. Do note that I am unable to credit the original sources. So remember he's source is as good as mine outside of a few well-known fact due to official statement.

Aigis development team originally started about more than 2 years ago on the game. Back then, it started with Beta which personally, I know of no one being a part of.

I joined back in the Maribelle event which was the 6th event. Game's official launch and 1st event was 11/26/2013, I joined at 01/26/2014. There's one other member I know who joined at late December of 2013.

The JP Dev team at the start was fairly stable. Though somewhat inexperienced. (Maribelle 3rd map bug) But they have a ridiculously good dev lead that basically single-handly saved Aigis by preventing a bunch of BS from the management. (Make note of this, I will mention more of his accomplishment later)

Even at the beginning JP Aigis managed one event per week, with a break of x1.5 about 3~4 times a year. There's also 2 empty week from the wiki. One for desert story mission release, another for iOS version. It's no wonder the motto is 'gimme a break and let me farm.' and 'Trial missions = break'

The one event per week changed after Defense Goddess shut-down, which is another game from the same company. The devs from Defense Goddess all got transferred to Aigis's division, and Awakening occurred soon after.

Remember that Dev lead I mentioned?

Spoiler

Originally awakening was supposed to consume gold rarity or above units only. Platinum units even. The Dev lead went rambo (in a good way) and trashed that to present us with a 'costy' yet perfectly balanced system with gold, orb, CC silver (/gold) materials.

After awakening, the Aigis Dev team got pretty big due to consuming the Defense Goddess team, it's why you see revival events and subjugation events. They have the resources, and used it. Aigis at that time is often #1 on DMM and still is. No matter how much WankoP likes to claim credit, my hero is that aggressive Dev lead.

Want to know why Aigis spam the player with apology crystal?

Spoiler

It's how the dev team apologies, 'here, I made a mistake with code, so we will distract you with apology crystal' and it worked pretty damn well.

The team got more competent over time (there had been major bugs back in the days, players even complained about it) and there's few bugs of note now. So the community's pretty much, 'oh cool, messed up description, free crystal'

After what can pretty much be considered golden growth period (2015) for JP Aigis, Nutaku introduced EN Aigis, which anyone from this topic is probably more aware of than me. So I won't go through the details. Followed by the recent addition of Aigis A iOS.

---
From below is ranting, no sources, just commenting.
---

Spoiler

Nutaku itself is stretched pretty thin as far as I am aware of. They been porting over a lot of the DMM games and bringing it in English. Ambition is fine and all, but I have doubts on whether they have enough trained and component staff to update and maintain all the games. That's of course, assuming they did no translation effort of their own, which probably isn't true.

JP Aigis wise (Fairly sure at the below)
2 Experienced Dev Teams
1 Out-sourcing team for iOS
1 Translation team for EN Aigis (which I assume got shafed since iOS was a higher priority - nutaku take their cut of the profit, while iOS is just royalty)

Nutaku on the other hand is handling a bunch of DMM games (which I will note - from different company) and maintaining and updating it on their servers. Add in whatever translation they are doing and bringing in more people to the team. But course, it takes time to hire the right people and longer time for the new hires to become competent.

I assume what you guys are feeling is basically the difference in between experienced and dedicated team, versus stretched out thin and new hires.

what are these types of games even called?

Still called Online Social Games

 

[Blahblahblacksheep]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

And of course you can provide credible sources for these claims, right?
You are just making up stuff out of thin air in hopeless attempt to justify completely unjustifiable discriminative practices.

And you are yet another hysterical fan with baseless accusations.

Go to your local Barnes and Noble and complain that there are not "enough" Arabic books. Or Japanese books. Call it "completely unjustifiable discriminative pracitices" for them to have so many more books in your own language than foreign languages. That's all you're doing, and I can't find the sense, rationality or motive behind it.

They didn't have to have any books in foreign languages at all; same as English Aigis, and you're complaining nonstop that it exists but isn't enough. Nobody cares about your completely baseless standards. I'm over here just pointing out how fanatical, unrealistic and unreasonable you're being.

Continuing the metaphor, a far more productive conversation to that Barnes and Noble would be, "I'd really appreciate books x, y and z in language q, and I believe there are many people like me in my community that feel the same way. We want access to these books and feel you would also profit by providing them." I have no idea what justified the leap from this to all of the "This is unacceptable" rhetoric.

The japanese devs aren't communicating with us therefore they are xenophobic racists? Is hearing nothing all that motivates you to assume the absolute possible worst out of people who have done nothing but provide a good game and good service? Is having less than the best possible service (DMM Aigis) some grave insult to you and your family lineage? I can't understand it. They've done literally nothing wrong without at least informing us (bug causing the 6 week break) and you act like they mean to do you personal harm if awakening isn't in the game yesterday.

 

[Nirhael]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Barnes and Noble

Thing is, our "book" is Aigis and the book is missing pages, I'm pretty sure anyone would complain about that.

 

[exkale]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Thing is, our "book" is Aigis and the book is missing pages, I'm pretty sure anyone would complain about that.

Aigis isn't a complete series so there aren't any missing pages. I believe you meant to say missing Volumes.

 

[razisgosu]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Yeah the Barnes and Nobles analogy doesn't really work in your favor blacksheep. It's a very stretchy comparison to even make. Nobody is complaining that there aren't enough games from DMM. We're complaining that the single English rendition of Aigis is missing content, and a vast amount at that. Totally agree with Nirhael that anyone would complain if their Harry Potter book was missing chapters 3, 8, 9, 14, and 18. (Obviously chose chapters at random)

 

[nissebrygger]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

There are some rather basic problems here with opposition to doing Aigis the original Aigis way,

- DMM Aigis is successful, massively so, for years, doing the same for Nutaku is entirely unlikely to backfire for same said reason.
- Running at half speed is not intended by the original games design (as demonstrated by the original and its approach for what is supposed to be the same game) and it does warp the game design in various ways that are clearly not intended (natural regen > resource consumption in a game genre explicit designed to be the opposite to solicit cash from the gamers)
- That the only thing breaks "break" is the game design and player base (splits off and moves DMM or out).
- That it was the Dev teams (original) intentions to align DMM Aigis and Nutaku Aigis.
- That the Community can influence them (under certain circumstances) and did so successfully.

There has so far not been advanced a single sound argument against why it is so terrible to run Aigis as Aigis instead of what we have now.

The entire, "we cant change anything", is clearly wrong. So is the "running Aigis here will not work, we are special", as it very clearly works and has done so for 2+ years. So what exactly is the problem with trying one might ask?

 

[Larcx]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

@Nirhael

Where is Your Avatar Icon Sapphire Unit come from?
I'm on Sapphire hunting

Don't think Your Avatar is on the list of Merchandise I ordered
Light Novel vol 1-4 or Aigis Character Profile

 

[nissebrygger]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Larcx

You must be registered to see the links

Corrected link, first one was to wrong unit

 

[Larcx]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

@larcxs

You must be registered to see the links

Huh...?
That is the Priest-Warrior
Surely it is not Nirhael Sapphire Avatar...?

Light Novel Vol 1 = Kaguya
LN 2 = Kaguya's Maid (?)
LN 3 = Sybilla's sister
LN 4 = ??

Aigis Character Profile = Suiru , quite broken like Mikoto IIRC although Sapphire is only somehere Gold-Plat

 

[Nirhael]

Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

@Nirhael

Where is Your Avatar Icon Sapphire Unit come from?
I'm on Sapphire hunting

Don't think Your Avatar is on the list of Merchandise I ordered
Light Novel vol 1-4 or Aigis Character Profile

You must be registered to see the links

was part of a Tech Gian magazine issue promotion, very difficult to get her and scams are common so be careful when trying to get a legitimate, new copy.