What's new

The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!


Status
Not open for further replies.
OP
Takumaru

Takumaru

Jungle Girl
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
62
Reputation score
34
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

First off, i apologize for the slow reply. Life is busy, I can't spend as much time around here as i would like, sometimes.
The busy work is what makes me look into these things because I know that there are better ways than for everyone in the same household to be working full-time-jobs that still get them nowhere. Productivity is practically non-existent in the United States now.

that most examples of bicycle generators are stationary. That's important, but i'll get back to it.
Most examples or just your example ?

(Generators, friction, energy, etc.)
Friction is greatly reduced on rotational devices through the use of ball-bearings and lubricant. You do not need any math to personally see for yourself that combining lubricants with ball-bearings reduces friction. I have worked with plenty of gears before to be able to tell you this from experience. You should also know that a woman's tits being played with by thumbs rubbing upon them in little circular-motions for a dozen minutes whilst her ear-lobe is simultaneously being nibbled upon gets her wet and reduces the friction of putting even a giant erection into the hole between her legs... extend that rubbing to the clit for even more motions and generating energy and other interesting effects (the point here is that we as humans are a phenomenon of perpetual energy or at least a long-term-form of energy depending on how long the life-spans allow for [over-simplified example]).

You are trying to insist that there will be so much friction, causing so much loss, but you did not seem to take into account the momentum generated, even if more effort was initially needed to move the locomotive. A giant train once in motion should continue to move, slowing down only against the various combinations of resistance from air/rail-friction/etc., but by the way, train-systems do in fact, currently already exist in certain parts of the world that run on their own energy systems (not reliant upon any kind of nuclear power-plant or national grid-system). I think they can be found in Japan and Germany. Principles are based on electro-magnetics (whether you refuse to refer to it as a "free energy" source is something I only regard as a matter of differences in interpretations of semantics).

(Weather-Balloons & Cameras)
I was not commenting on accuracy, but rather, what is to keep the weather-balloon from going any which way it pleases, followed by the retrieval of any recording devices. For cameras, I could probably use a more expensive camera, like a camcorder instead of a digital sports-camera, and yes, the camcorders I have/use, can record for a good 3-4 hours before batteries run out, but those are bigger batteries, cameras designed specifically for filming instead of digital-pictures, and the hell if I'm going to launch a several-hundred-dollar camera up into the sky unless I know I can retrieve it safely and consistently (from the videos that I have seen of people launching them up they took HELICOPTERS and tracking devices with them to find their equipment).

And finally, the heat issue. 1500 Celsius is a lot, especially for electrical equipment, i agree. In response, I point you to youtube...
I fail to see the purpose of showing a man who briefly sticks his foot onto a hot substance. The titles of the videos are also misleading. A man walking on lava would be one thing but this man only briefly put his foot onto hot surfaces (with foot-protection).

The second video is questionable due to its quality looking to be likely from blue/green-screen. Just in case you are not familiar with blue/green-screen editing I point you to some examples here...

A computer that dangles down from a rope, into a lava-pit, even if suspended above the lava itself, will malfunction and be rendered inoperable if left there for an entire day (I know this because I have built/repaired/used computers for well over a decade). Additionally, anybody who's been inside of a car on a sunny day, with the windows down, has felt the "greenhouse-effect" heating up the inside. Exactly how does the ISS not become over-heated indoors if it is orbiting in 1500°C+ temperatures ? They cannot just open their windows like you would in a car lest all the oxygen escape and there being no more oxygen to breathe.

Besides that, I must assume that most people in this thread who have given me flack for this topic must believe and insist that the sun is 93 million miles away (93.3 million to be more specific from what I remember in astronomy classes back when I used to take all manners of university and college-courses), but if that were the case... then I really need an explanation for why footage from weather-balloons often seem to reveal a hot-spot upon the top of the clouds right beneath the sun, assuming this footage has not been done via CGI, that you can view for yourself here...
 

Crawdaddy

Tentacle God
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
1,355
Reputation score
749
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

You are trying to insist that there will be so much friction, causing so much loss, but you did not seem to take into account the momentum generated, even if more effort was initially needed to move the locomotive. A giant train once in motion should continue to move, slowing down only against the various combinations of resistance from air/rail-friction/etc., but by the way, train-systems do in fact, currently already exist in certain parts of the world that run on their own energy systems (not reliant upon any kind of nuclear power-plant or national grid-system). I think they can be found in Japan and Germany. Principles are based on electro-magnetics (whether you refuse to refer to it as a "free energy" source is something I only regard as a matter of differences in interpretations of semantics).
Source?

Exactly how does the ISS not become over-heated indoors if it is orbiting in 1500°C+ temperatures ? They cannot just open their windows like you would in a car lest all the oxygen escape and there being no more oxygen to breathe.
In a word? . Specifically insulating it from being heated up in the first place. They also have giant radiator carrying liquid ammonia out into space (on the shadowed side of the station), where radiation heat-exchange is enough to keep it cool.

Besides that, I must assume that most people in this thread who have given me flack for this topic must believe and insist that the sun is 93 million miles away (93.3 million to be more specific from what I remember in astronomy classes back when I used to take all manners of university and college-courses), but if that were the case... then I really need an explanation for why footage from weather-balloons often seem to reveal a hot-spot upon the top of the clouds right beneath the sun, assuming this footage has not been done via CGI, that you can view for yourself here...
I'm interested in what you mean, exactly, by a "hot-spot".

I suspect that the ultimate master-mind behind all of this is some kind of extremely high-level artificial-intelligence (what may have been referred to in the past as The Devil or Satan/Shetani/Baal/etc). Consider the alleged age of the universe, 13.8 billion years old, the alleged amount of time that humans have existed, allegedly 200 thousand or so years ago in so-called modern-form, then you look at the self-learning capabilities of today's A.I.-controlled computer-systems. Only five years of development and yet Deep-Blue defeated Gary Kasparov in a Grand-Master-Level Chess-Match, another A.I. won top-place in a Jeopardy contest, and that was only a measly five years out of that 13.8 billion-year time-frame. A type of QUANTUM-Level HAL-9000 having had control of this Earth since even before computers came out is not necessarily a far-fetched idea (Quantum in the sense that IT probably does not necessarily require a "physical" vessel for its controls & influence over this material-universe).

The ideas for inventions are surely inspired from somewhere and, likewise, the ideas for strategic war-fare must have its origins from somewhere, too. How the deception "benefits" such an entity, well, knowing what I know about war-fare, I do know that the most-effective tactic to be able to destroy your targets or groups of individuals, usually always involves making said people think that you are non-existent.
This is an entirely spurious, unfalsifiable assertion, and can therefore be dismissed with no further consideration. Curiously though: why on Earth are you assuming that the ages of the Earth and universe are correct if you question its shape? Why isn't the government/Illuminati/Elders of Zion/whatever lying about that as well? And a couple of last remarks: quantum computing also needs physical medium to operate, and there's really no need for all that hyphenation.

That makes me have to question : Has humanity gone backwards with its ability to use technology to increase productivity ? The tractor was an alleged invention that was supposed to allow one man to do the work of several-hundred manual-labourers. Less time consumed to provide/produce more for everybody. Bicycles without generators as leverage (metaphorically speaking), becomes like farmers without tools trying to produce food, and that is like working an 80-hour-work-week for something that should only take maybe 10 hours maximum or less if the most-efficient use of known sciences/technologies were combined.
We also live considerably longer, are considerably more numerous, and consume considerably more. But this is an issue of economics and social equity less than it is a question of natural science, so I won't go into it further.

Again, you really don't need to hyphenate everything. I know this might come off as petty, but it just looks odd, and is unnecessary.

---------------------

Lurker_01 said:
No important expeditions after ~1960 after the various countries firmed the Antarctic Treaty, wikipedia has nothing about this other that the "actual" data from CIA. I don't believe that expeditions made in years 1910-1960 could go that far.
I don't understand why the year 1960 is so important. reached the geographic South Pole in 1911, even with the technology of the day.

Lila said:
What I know about the subject of it being not flat is that in 1492, Christopher Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue, proving that the Earth loops. Therefore it must have Connectivity in some way for perpetuation.
That's not really true. First off, Columbus didn't circumnavigate the world, Magellan did, in 1519 (some 27 yeas after Columbus' first voyage). Secondly, even back then, most learned people believed the Earth to be round, as it had been observed by the greek philosopher and geographer Eristothenes ca. 200 BC. He accuately calculated the circumference of the Earth, and even it's axial tilt between summer and winter. The reason why Columbus was disbelieved was because he thought that the circumference of the Earth was a lot smaller than what others believed, therefore thinking India was a lot closer.
 
Last edited:

Lurker_01

Demon Girl Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
180
Reputation score
42
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

I don't understand why the year 1960 is so important. reached the geographic South Pole in 1911, even with the technology of the day.
I didn't put the importance for the date, Toxic was saying that South Pole was explored in deep to know everything about it, so i just mentioned that yes, it was reached and searched but not with the technology of our age or at least Wikipedia doesn't mention it and i don't believe it could be searched that far with 1960 Tech (i guess at that year they explored everything about it if i go by the reasoning that there was no other noteworthy expeditions), that's all.
 

Crawdaddy

Tentacle God
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
1,355
Reputation score
749
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

I didn't put the importance for the date, Toxic was saying that South Pole was explored in deep to know everything about it, so i just mentioned that yes, it was reached and searched but not with the technology of our age or at least Wikipedia doesn't mention it and i don't believe it could be searched that far with 1960 Tech (i guess at that year they explored everything about it if i go by the reasoning that there was no other noteworthy expeditions), that's all.
crossed the entire continent on skis in the '90s.
 

Lurker_01

Demon Girl Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
180
Reputation score
42
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

crossed the entire continent on skis in the '90s.
Again you are missing the point, i never said that probably there were no further expeditions just that they were not noteworthy for -->wikipedia<--, also this is not a scientist or someone that would contribute any actual "proven scientific method" data.
 

Crawdaddy

Tentacle God
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
1,355
Reputation score
749
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

You've .

He was merely the first solo unassisted crossing.

And yes, most of the other expeditions have been scientific.
 

Lurker_01

Demon Girl Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
180
Reputation score
42
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

You've .

He was merely the first solo unassisted crossing.

And yes, most of the other expeditions have been scientific.
honestly i am talking about the main antarctica page, and I don't understand why the man Børge Ousland is so important

Edit: I am sorry if this looks like moving the goal posts but i was talking about the main antarctica page and because of this i said that there were no noteworthy expeditions for it's history over there.
Edit2: here have a , this argument is stupid.
Also to clarify i am talking about geography of it and how it looks.
Also from the article "Richard E. Byrd led several voyages to the Antarctic by plane in the 1930s and 1940s. He is credited with implementing mechanised land transport on the continent and conducting extensive geological and biological research" yet the german tanks were getting frozen over Russia in war period.
then there is nothing that mention geography...
I am sure that it's implied that the data is from Antarctic Treaty. I guess my position is that i don't see any independent expeditions mentioned specifically in the main article.
edit3: last edit.
 
Last edited:

super_slicer

Lord High Inquisitor
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
12,594
Reputation score
30,744
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

As an aside, the rather foolish idea that we have completely friction free materials at our disposal has provoked an interesting line of thought for me.

How would one actually build with such a material? You couldn't just pick it up, you'd have to use some kind of capsule to encase and transport it, assuming it isn't ferromagnetic, then IDK how you'd get it out of the capsule into where you'd want to actually put the damn thing, you wouldn't even be able to attach it securely, and shit I'm just thinking of something in the shape of a brick imagine a ball bearing!

But even worse than that, before you had your completed frictionless part, how would you form it into the shape you needed? Remember, it's completely frictionless so anything you try to hit it with is just going to ablate off the surface (even lasers I imagine!) or send the object flying in another direction.
 

Shrike7

Lurker
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
7,437
Reputation score
102
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

Bicycles:
-My- example was not a generator at all, originally. My example was about one person having so much trouble -moving- twelve other people on bicycles that your legs would give out before any generators were even installed. I added them into the second post to continue with the 'how much power would be outputted?' line of thought relating to your original analogy, the wind turbines. Which i noticed you have not attempted to dispute.

As for the ratio of moving vs unmoving bicycles capable of generating electricity, i honestly did not do an exhaustive search. Feel free to do one yourself, and post the results. I simply know that every example i have personally seen in nearly thirty years has been stationary. I am certain that mobile ones do exist, however they are in the minority for a reason. They would produce less energy, as a lot of the energy you are putting into pedalling would be turned into motion, not electricity.

Friction:
I agree, friction can be greatly reduced, and in fact is, in almost every modern example where it is important. Wheel and tire axles, the interior of turbines, fan blades, all these sorts of things do in fact work off the ball bearings and such you have mentioned. My point is, while friction can be reduced, it cannot be eliminated.

I also find myself mildly offended by your woman example, but that is beside the point. We get our energy from outside sources, food for the most part, and everything we do expends some of that. We do not create energy, nor are we limitless sources or repositories for such. If we were, we could pedal bicycles forever and actually generate limitless electricity for someone else to use.

Momentum as you seem to think of it is false. It is simply kinetic energy that has already been expended into an object. Push a jar of peanut butter with enough energy to slide it one foot. Then put it on it's side, and push it with the same amount of force, for the same amount of time. It will go further, even after you are no longer pushing it. It doesn't have any more energy to it, but by causing it to roll, you have reduced the friction it has to deal with. Momentum does not grant free energy, it's just the energy you put into it being expended over time.

Those trains use magnetism to reduce friction further. They do indeed run off an energy source otherwise, you can see the transmission lines from the grid it's hooked up to above them, in most cases. In the others, it's usually between the train and the line it hovers above, which can be harder to spot. Again, if they were generating energy out of nowhere, they'd be used to create electricity, not transport people. They are remarkably efficient, and a lot of that is due to the reduction in friction their design allows. Reduction, not elimination.

Weather Balloons:
You should note that I indeed have already mentioned the travel of a weather balloon and the retrieval of data it contains in my previous post. In short, neither is particularly a problem. the travel of a weather balloon makes no difference in the data, and the data itself can be retrieved without ever having to retrieve the balloon itself. I understand that the cost factor for that method may be a mitigating factor for your own experiments, so let me suggest something i learned as a small child when i wished to retain floating balloons: Attach a line to them. Then you can simply pull it back down whenever you wish.

Cameras:
I own several digital-cameras. Several. I can tell you for a fact that they CANNOT film for over an entire full hour before the battery power runs out. Usually the battery will be drained much sooner than that if it's in active video-recording mode so I have to wonder exactly what allows for people to be able to get such footage without some kind of automated system of timed recording. The fact that my batteries run out so fast also leads me to question exactly how space-probes/rovers/etc., can go as far as Mars or beyond, and I think I have even read claims of probes sent out to planets even much farther than Mars, and yet somehow never run out of the energy needed to do their alleged missions, without their batteries running out (multiple-series batteries ? Solar-powered self-propulsion ?).
This was your original concern about cameras. I have given two examples to directly oppose your one hour time limit. You now state that the same cameras you own yourself can go three or four times that time limit as well.

As for the mars missions and their seeming battery life, you will notice the solar generators on nearly every item NASA has shipped off the planet. If you look into those that don't, I'm sure you will find mention of alternative sources, such as the nuclear power you suggested. Since both of these -generate- electricity (From an outside source or a atomic reaction, neither of which is free or limitless, before you try to point that out), the -capacity- of their systems does not have to be very large at all.

Temperature:
Those were two videos i found in a single search with two terms on youtube, im sure you can find clearer videos with more effort. My point with the foot was that 1200 Celsius is most certainly over the failure point of both foot and sandal, and yet the man was fine. I'm certain the sandal suffered some damage, but whatever. From what I know of electronics, and you may know this better than me, there is little you can do to recover electronics once they have reached that failure point. Most damage is quite irreperable.

Hence you protect them. Inside a suit with yourself, as in my second video, or self contained, which would likely be more effective, as it is specialized for the task. Which you seem to now confirm, given the lengthening of the time needed to reach the failure point in your latest post from 'Instantly' to 'If left there for a day'. Venting of heat has already been mentioned, likely with more accuracy and tact than i can manage myself, so I will simply suggest another option: Don't leave it there all day? Your camcorders can run for to hours, you have already mentioned, why not retrieve them after that much time?

Hot Spots:
That is an interesting video, to be sure. Have you ever heard of 'reflections'?

The sun is simply reflecting light off the top of the clouds. You can see this phenomenon yourself at night, when sufficiently bright lights are shone onto the bottom of the clouds, and you can see the clouds match whatever colour the light shone onto them is. The light is directed upwards, if it were not reflecting off anything it struck, clouds included, then it would simply not reach your eyes at all. I learned this in grade school, well before the more complicated things universities and colleges teach.
 
OP
Takumaru

Takumaru

Jungle Girl
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
62
Reputation score
34
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

(Train Systems)) Source?
Those trains use magnetism to reduce friction further. They do indeed run off an energy source otherwise, you can see the transmission lines from the grid it's hooked up to above them, in most cases. In the others, it's usually between the train and the line it hovers above, which can be harder to spot. Again, if they were generating energy out of nowhere, they'd be used to create electricity, not transport people. They are remarkably efficient, and a lot of that is due to the reduction in friction their design allows. Reduction, not elimination.
I probably described/worded things incorrectly. English Euphemisms are over-powered. Especially the Legalese. Anyway, yes, such systems like Mag-Lev are certainly very efficient. Perhaps calling it self-generating, over-unity, free-energy, may be inaccurate, according to conventional definition. I am one of those cheap-skates who dislikes spending money on the same thing in perpetuity, such as food, electricity, etc., therefore, I look for ways to produce such resources "free" for myself even if only in terms of not having to spend dollars/currency if I need to obtain more to eat or use or consume.

Related to the question for "source" behind what I am referring to in terms of efficient energy use/conversion/generation/transformation/etc., and trains, I cannot go over every single source I have possibly gone over for the last decade, but I did find an interesting recent result on a particular Mag-Lev and how it came to be developed and "perfected" such that it would be able to account for the weight of the passengers so as to not de-rail from over-capacity (done via a type of hydraulics-system). I thought I kept it in book-marks but I do not seem to be able to locate it it for reason.

(You may not necessarily agree with the semantics of the title as the uploader is a Русское inventor but it's titled : Self powered urban electric railway charged from solar PV covered open air tunnels)

Things like "Hydrogen Generators" (running via water as its source of fuel) have been patented before. This is one example. I have seen in news reports of inventors showing off their gas/oil-independent inventions only to later learn that "government agencies" end up confiscating and destroying the labs of numerous scientists/inventors. Anyway, from what I understand about patents, one of the sources that made mention of patents stated that patents are not given out unless the patent works as described. Here is one for a Hydrogen Generator...


Here is what comes up when "over-unity" has been used as the search-term...


Here is a "patent" that is described as a "Self powered end of train unit"


I 'get' that you are all trying to say that nothing creates/generates its own energy. That basically means that everything is a holistic-system. Boy does that remind me of the scam of big-pharma and its over-promotion of neuro-toxic psychotropics (they seem to hate anything to do with holistic-health or holistic medical-nutrition). Anyway, the case I am trying to make, revolves around being able to use the accumulated empirical-knowledge of science/technology where it IS possible to create/produce holistic-systems that can provide all of the necessary energy/electricity/food/etc., that anybody could possibly want to use within an entire life-time and only require a minimal amount of work/maintenance, even if you are getting/converting the energy from "somewhere" (from gravity?). Like I have mentioned before, dams can be constructed, creating a "perpetual motion" from a technology/man-made water-fall. The water-fall has to get its "motion" from somewhere, too, but where does that get its energy from, unless the answer given will be something like "gravity" provides its own energy ? Weak Force (responsible for decay), Strong Force (responsible for resisting decay), Gravity (I do not particularly believe in the conventional explanation on this), Electro-Magnetism (everyone should be familiar with this already), amongst which Gravity is apparently the least-understood.

(Insulation)
As for the mars missions and their seeming battery life, you will notice the solar generators on nearly every item NASA has shipped off the planet. If you look into those that don't, I'm sure you will find mention of alternative sources, such as the nuclear power you suggested. Since both of these -generate- electricity (From an outside source or a atomic reaction, neither of which is free or limitless, before you try to point that out), the -capacity- of their systems does not have to be very large at all.
The issue I have with using the word "insultation" involves the fact that most insulation I am familiar with is intended and designed for trapping heat within, rather than keeping heat out, unlike putting those giant automobile sun-glasses against your wind-shield on a sunny day to prevent that green-house effect. I get that radiation can be reflected (tin-foil hats are fun, I even put them around my nano-medicines, may start covering more of my stuff with tin-foil). I have witnessed many a clueless college student use the public microwaves, leaving the tin foil around their food or metal spoon in their cups, resulting in rendering said microwaves inoperable. I know to take that stuff out if I find that my food/drink is still cold after I check on it and find that it's still cold even after having been in the microwave for 30 seconds. The other people I have seen using microwaves though...

Anyway, yes, I looked up photos and stuff of the ISS. What I find really only looks like CGI. I am looking for actual photos (like detailed close-up shots such as if I were to photograph my house for example). Better yet, video-footage would be even better, and not the currently existing footage. What I need is a "grand tour" from one end to the other end, you know, such as if you were to take a cam-corder into a big house or mansion, starting the recording from when you enter the door, then move from one room to another, through each door, without cutting out footage to skip from one room to another. A "continuous" recording will be enough to satisfy me where they are moving from one section to another section, showing the doors/chambres being opened, then going down all the way through all of the corridors.

The reason I ask this is because the currently available footage can be filmed inside of a plane in a Zero G Dive, but if they can just go through a few doors without any video-editing, continous, raw, unedited footage, then at least I would be able to see that going through the door does not end up in a cockpit or back of an air-line. Such an example can be seen here...


(Although I am not entirely certain/convinced or not as to whether the footage of the plane being shown to be flown in the sky is necessarily from another plane or helicopter or was just CGI'd in for demonstration-purposes)

I'm interested in what you mean, exactly, by a "hot-spot".
That is the description that is given by the uploaders/flat-earthers.

why on Earth are you assuming that the ages of the Earth and universe are correct if you question its shape? Why isn't the government/Illuminati/Elders of Zion/whatever lying about that as well?
I am not assuming, and I DO in fact, question the age. Not to mention the fact that the "distance to the sun" has actually "changed" within the college text-books depending on which year you go back, and if that was not strange enough, even "the speed of light" has been discovered to not be as constant as what the current-day academic text-books tell you (Source : Rupert Sheldrake, whom I respect as a scientist/biologist who actually does his own homework/experiments, rather than solely regurgitating book-learned knowledge [from the "TED Talk" that caused much controversy surrounding Sheldrake]). I am just going to call that shadow-government/illuminati/etc. stuff the NWO since they have even come out in public and talked about having a real chance at a NWO.

Bicycles:
-My- example was not a generator at all, originally. My example was about one person having so much trouble -moving- twelve other people on bicycles that your legs would give out before any generators were even installed. I added them into the second post to continue with the 'how much power would be outputted?' line of thought relating to your original analogy, the wind turbines. Which i noticed you have not attempted to dispute.
I am not disputing your example of lots of energy being used to move heavy objects. What I am disputing is that your "design/example" has a completely different context that you are looking to move a whole bunch of other heavy objects attached to an already heavy object.

Perhaps showing this footage of a hamster then describing it from there would be able to give a better example of what I would choose to design...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkNTAiWX8g0&fmt=18
You can see that the wheel is connected to an axis which spins a generator that lights up the LED. Now let's say that the axis is extended and connected to another LED, and another LED, and another LED, and another LED, this way, you are only using one rotating source-point in order to power up multiple LEDs, and is the basic principle behind the "leverage" idea for powering multiple generators with only one rotation. One wheel could also be connected to another wheel then connected to another and another, all on the same axis, sure, but that would seem silly to have multiple hamsters running on different wheels even if each of the wheels are connected to the same axis just to power one single LED.

As for the ratio of moving vs unmoving bicycles capable of generating electricity...(snip)...They would produce less energy, as a lot of the energy you are putting into pedalling would be turned into motion, not electricity.
We do not create energy, nor are we limitless sources or repositories for such. If we were, we could pedal bicycles forever and actually generate limitless electricity for someone else to use.
Momentum as you seem to think of it is false...(etc.)...Momentum does not grant free energy, it's just the energy you put into it being expended over time.
This feels like it's getting into too much semantics. Why can motion not be converted into energy/electricity as with the example of the hamster lighting up an LED ? I am sure that we can all at least concur that energy is neither created nor destroyed, only converted, without running into confusing gymnastics with semantics (motion is a form of energy, I think it can be considered that anyway, electricity should be able to be regarded as a form of energy, heat also being a form of energy, etc). I see energy all around us and no reason why it cannot simply be harnessed in extremely efficient manners (such to the point of self-sufficiency where I feel like calling it free-energy even if conventional-definition says it's impossible).

My point is, while friction can be reduced, it cannot be eliminated.
Sure, I won't disagree with that, mainly because of air-viscosity.

You now state that the same cameras you own yourself can go three or four times that time limit as well.
I don't usually do long-term-filming so the camcorders did not come to mind originally. Digital cameras are the main things I use due to needing to photograph a lot of products in detail to have images of all this too much stuff I need to sell off.

Temperature:
Those were two videos i found in a single search with two terms on youtube, im sure you can find clearer videos with more effort. My point with the foot was that 1200 Celsius is most certainly over the failure point of both foot and sandal, and yet the man was fine. I'm certain the sandal suffered some damage, but whatever. From what I know of electronics, and you may know this better than me, there is little you can do to recover electronics once they have reached that failure point. Most damage is quite irreperable.
The reason I responded to this part was because exposure for a brief fraction of a second is not the same as constant "orbiting" exposure for days and weeks or even months or years on end. I have already seen footage of men walking on molten-rock without being scathed. Turned out that the properties of the rocks themselves were such that, due to being porous, the actual temperatures of walking on the rocks were not nearly has hot as it appeared.

Hence you protect them. Inside a suit with yourself, as in my second video, or self contained, which would likely be more effective, as it is specialized for the task. Which you seem to now confirm, given the lengthening of the time needed to reach the failure point in your latest post from 'Instantly' to 'If left there for a day'. Venting of heat has already been mentioned, likely with more accuracy and tact than i can manage myself, so I will simply suggest another option: Don't leave it there all day? Your camcorders can run for to hours, you have already mentioned, why not retrieve them after that much time?
I use 120mm heat-sinks for my computers since the normal heat-sinks they come with tend to be inadequate for how much I work my computers' processors so I am thus quite familiar with heat-dissipation (due to having frequent problems in the past with over-heating). The hazmat-looking suit video was questionable due to looking more likely to be blue/green-screened than a genuine dip into a genuine volcano pit. I know you're trying to say that it's possible to touch a heat-source without frying instantly like an ant would if a magnifying glass were used to concentrate a laser of sun-light, and I do not disagree, but I was referring to prolonged exposure, rather than doing stunts like running through a bon-fire.

Hot Spots:
That is an interesting video, to be sure. Have you ever heard of 'reflections'?

The sun is simply reflecting light off the top of the clouds. You can see this phenomenon yourself at night, when sufficiently bright lights are shone onto the bottom of the clouds, and you can see the clouds match whatever colour the light shone onto them is. The light is directed upwards, if it were not reflecting off anything it struck, clouds included, then it would simply not reach your eyes at all. I learned this in grade school, well before the more complicated things universities and colleges teach.
Certainly. Are you saying that the clouds are shaped in such a manner that they are causing a concentration of light into one specific spot or region at the top of the clouds? Also, the video-title indicates an altitude of 20 miles up into the sky, but are you saying that there are other clouds below the above clouds where the sun is reflecting from the below clouds to the above clouds? For it would be difficult to believe that these reflections would come from the earth's surface and still have that level of brightness after that kind of a distance. How is the sun-light going through the above clouds in order to bounce off the lower clouds to create a hot-spot on the above clouds unless there are holes somewhere for the sun to go through the above clouds to reach the below clouds ?
 
Last edited:

Shrike7

Lurker
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
7,437
Reputation score
102
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

even less time than usual, and your posts are just getting larger and larger. Just going to try and point out the most important flaws.

Insulation:
Coffee travel mug. Built to keep coffee hot. And indeed, if you sit it beside an equal amount of coffee in a normal mug, it will stay hot for longer. Now, try putting a slush/slurpee/frozen drink of choice in each, and compare that. you will find that the travel mug keeps things -cold- for longer, as well. insulation works both ways. It works by impeding the transfer of heat through it, not by working to keep something in or out. with hot coffee, it takes longer for the heat to get out. With an iced drink, it takes longer for the heat to get -in-.

Automobile sunglasses are reflection, as you stated, not insulation, though the end effect remains the same. I have no idea how your microwave statement applies in the least, however. It has nothing to do with insulation, or reflection, or the temperature inside of a space station, as far as i can determine.

Reflections:
No idea what long and convoluted thing you are trying to get into. Your video names it as a hot spot, but provides no proof to confirm that it is a reasonable name. How about a 'bright spot', instead? light comes from the sun, reflects off the tops of clouds, and shines into the camera. viewed from the right angle, you can create that same effect with nearly any camera and nearly any surface. There is absolutely nothing in that video to suggest or prove that the spot you are seeing is physically hotter than the spot right beside it, or the spot directly beneath the camera, even. Other than the name the uploader chose to give it.

Space Station:
Tour video, very first link under a simple search:

I see that you wish for a complete tour without cuts, but this is a professional installation, and any video they make for distribution to the public is going to be made to be pleasing, that's just how public relations work. I watched a little bit on double speed however, and there are several segments without cuts where they remain in zero gravity for longer than the parabolic flights of zero gravity airplanes allow for. Most parabolas only allow for 20 to 30 seconds of weightlessness. I am absolutely sure there can be longer ones, but the longest I could find mention of was 90 seconds, and that one seemed suspect. Many of the clips in the link i provide last longer than even that.

I seem to remember from an older post that you argues the air they would need would be prohibitive. You said the cubic feet of the station would not support the people inside for any length of time. In response to that, i point you towards scuba divers, who can breathe for hours off the cubic footage of a tank on their backs. Pressurized reserves and air scrubbers make that problem less prohibitive, though i suspect you feel it would still be a problem.

As for the photos, they may not look as you are used to, simply because the pictures you take of the side of your house have atmoshere in them, and the images of the ISS do not. Or it may be due to a difference in camera quality, lighting conditions. The lack of a 'close up' shot is likely due to a lack of interest for one, and i'm sure that if i looked up a suitable close shot, it would look like the side of a panel, and your argument would be that you can't see space or the planet in the photo, and that it could have been taken anywhere.

Bicycles:
The context is not that different. Your legs are spinning a wheel, that is then used to generate energy. In your case, electricity. In my case, motion. Electric generators cause drag, that is simply part of how they generate the energy. that hamster wheel would be spinning with less friction if there wasn't a generator attached to it, your legs wouldn't have to work so hard if you didn't have multiple bikes attached to your own. But, let's go with your new example.

Hamster spins a wheel, wheel spins a small turbine, turbine powers a light. Or multiple lights. What you are not mentioning is the output of the generator compared to the lights is is powering. LED lights are wonderfully low on power consumption, that's one of the reasons they are so popular now. What if that first LED was already needing 100% of the turbine's power in order to light? adding more LEDs then would simply not light those, or would split the strength of the light between them, two at half power, three in thirds, etc. Looking at the video, in indeed seems like that is only the case, as the LED has trouble reaching full brightness unless the hamster is giving it his all.

You can attach multiple turbines to the hamster wheel, but then the hamster would have to work twice as hard to spin the wheel, or if it did not, the wheel would only spin half as fast, providing half the previous power to each of the turbines. It's the exact same issue as your first analogy, that i have been consistently repeating the errors in this whole time. You are trying to take a given amount of energy and make the end result multiply itself by adding components. It does not work that way.

Motion into electricity is exactly what all of these examples have been doing this whole time. the motion of the wheel spinning powers a turbine, or allows for travel. you can hamster wheel a bicycle wheel like you described, but the more you want the turbine to output, the more energy has to be applied to the wheel to do so, and the less energy is available for actually using your bicycle to go places. That is why most of those setups are stationary. If you want to generate power, that is the most efficient way to do so.

Cameras: You stated the one hour time limit like it was a hard barrier to the technology itself, and used your own equipment to form an example of such. now your own equipment breaks the example, and you are now trying to change your assertion entirely. I don't see why it has anymore relevance, and this will be the last i say on this particular train of thought.




I get that you're looking for a 'live off the land' solution, with all the comforts and amenities of modern life still at your fingertips. I know people personally who strive for this as well, and the best they manage is somewhere in between. Large garden, chickens and pigs, alternate electricity generation when it is feasable and affordable. But these things you mention are the 'get rich quick' schemes of holistic living. The things that do work tend to cost more than people have available, and the things that are cheap tend not to work at all. Those friends of mine are still connected to the power grid, still pay electric bills and buy groceries, but they need less of that, in return for their hard work creating some of that for themselves.

To be frank, i don't even know how you arrived at this from 'The world is conspiring to keep people from knowing it's flat', but there you have it. Spent longer on this than I wanted, but ah well.
 
Last edited:

super_slicer

Lord High Inquisitor
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
12,594
Reputation score
30,744
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

Don't forget that as you extend the axis there is going to come a point at which you need to brace it to keep it level, thus creating additional friction!

Also you might end up with animal right's activists after you, using hamsters to power the world and all, and not giving them breaks, healthcare, or a pension!
 
Last edited:
OP
Takumaru

Takumaru

Jungle Girl
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
62
Reputation score
34
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

Insulation:
Now, try putting a slush/slurpee/frozen drink of choice in each, and compare that. you will find that the travel mug keeps things -cold- for longer, as well. insulation works both ways. It works by impeding the transfer of heat through it, not by working to keep something in or out. with hot coffee, it takes longer for the heat to get out. With an iced drink, it takes longer for the heat to get -in-.
I have ways to test this so I will find out the results for myself. Usually I wrap a blanket around a warm liquid in a jar to preserve its heat (and it still remains warm even after two full days of being left unattended), but if I can do that to cold drinks, too, that will save a lot of space from needing to use the refrigerators.

I have no idea how your microwave statement applies in the least, however. It has nothing to do with insulation, or reflection, or the temperature inside of a space station, as far as i can determine.
I am acknowledging that radiation can be reflected.

Reflections:
No idea what long and convoluted thing you are trying to get into. Your video names it as a hot spot, but provides no proof to confirm that it is a reasonable name. How about a 'bright spot', instead? light comes from the sun, reflects off the tops of clouds, and shines into the camera. viewed from the right angle, you can create that same effect with nearly any camera and nearly any surface. There is absolutely nothing in that video to suggest or prove that the spot you are seeing is physically hotter than the spot right beside it, or the spot directly beneath the camera, even. Other than the name the uploader chose to give it.
Are you saying that "hot spot" phenomenon is common? What type of a "search term" can you recommend that I use to verify your claims from footage that others have uploaded? Surely there should be plenty of examples for me to see if this phenomenon is as common as you have claimed. Currently, I can only use "hot spot" for reference, because that is the search term that I will use, and in the results of each case, the spot is right beneath the sun.

Space Station:
Tour video, very first link under a simple search:
Good enough.

Pressurized reserves and air scrubbers make that problem less prohibitive, though i suspect you feel it would still be a problem.
You can thank the "professional skeptics" for making me play their game when I was heavily into research on paranormal phenomenon due to their constant harping on anything to do with parapsychology. May as well be skeptical of everything and everyone.

Bicycles:
Your example is indeed very different than my example. I used the word "leverage" for a reason. Connecting multiple trains together in parallel, and using one train to move the other cars, has more to do with kung fu style of training. Ever seen a smaller gear attached to a larger gear where one rotation of the first gear causes a rotation of another gear that moves twice as fast, then perhaps yet another gear that causes the third gear to move four times as fast, etc. You seem to like bicycles a lot, well, bicycles have gears that allow the rider to pedal at faster rotations, the higher the gear selected. Leverage.

You responded to something that needed no response. I clarified it already.

I get that you're looking for a 'live off the land' solution, with all the comforts and amenities of modern life still at your fingertips. I know people personally who strive for this as well, and the best they manage is somewhere in between. Large garden, chickens and pigs, alternate electricity generation when it is feasable and affordable. But these things you mention are the 'get rich quick' schemes of holistic living. The things that do work tend to cost more than people have available, and the things that are cheap tend not to work at all. Those friends of mine are still connected to the power grid, still pay electric bills and buy groceries, but they need less of that, in return for their hard work creating some of that for themselves.

To be frank, i don't even know how you arrived at this from 'The world is conspiring to keep people from knowing it's flat', but there you have it. Spent longer on this than I wanted, but ah well.
I beg to differ about the idea that everything has to be connected to the Federal Reserve system. The power plants themselves have to get their energy from somewhere. Whom do they "pay" for said resources to convert into electricity? Also, I have already provided plenty of reasons why self-sufficiency is not impossible, but as George Carlin (man was considered a genius) has said, the "owners" who run the country "own all the important land", and so of course, efforts in setting up such systems are likely to be impeded by the "enforcement" departments. Regarding "expensive" ...that idea is also nonsensical. That is like telling Venezuelans that they cannot make a food system without still being reliant upon the grocery stores (all of Venezuela's grocery stores are empty by the way) because systems to produce food are "too expensive" (note: Venezuela currently has a severe food crisis and that crisis is rapidly spreading to other countries). Here is also a "news" report with the title: "13 year old Invents Free Energy Device for 15 bucks!" ...



Ask yourself, WHY do things "cost money", exactly where does that "money" come from, and exactly what is that money going into, and why do you always need more of it for each year that passes. All it is is a bunch of paper or numbers of credit typed into the computers of a banking institution. The existence of money in of itself did not create nor produce the food, nor did it generate electricity, for that matter, suppose I were the only person on earth growing food, and you had ALL this "money" with you. Better yet, what if I was the only person on earth who knew how to generate electricity, but you had ALL this "money" with you. How are you going to convince me that your "paper" has more worth than my food or electricity? Please watch/listen to a few documentaries on The Federal Reserve before trying to respond to this portion if you plan to respond to it at all (something like this one is recommended - ).
 
Last edited:

eekgames

Demon Girl
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
74
Reputation score
2
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

To any reasonable person, we have enough evidence to suggest that the earth is round. I don't think it's a bad thing that there are people who question and contest science. It actually does good for people who are actually interested in the topic to learn the reasoning and evidences we have for the earth being round rather than just assuming it is because everybody else thinks so. Thinking that way is how we get into a whole lot of messes. I think the problem stems from the mechanics of how groups like these work. If you have a laymen person who doesn't know the evidences as to why we know the earth is round to begin with, and a somebody comes along and offers them what seem to be compelling evidence that it is indeed flat, which though wrong, can seem reasonable, I think the average person's response would not be to go and look up the reasons we believe it to be round to begin with, but rather just question their core belief. Of course there are camps of people who will go look it up, but regardless, the latter of these two types of people are better off for knowing the reality of the situation, and the former probably bases all of their beliefs on hear-say and faith rather than education and evidence, so what does it really matter what they think? It still doesn't change the reality. All you can do is argue with the, but in my experience, that usually doesn't help much. :)
 

super_slicer

Lord High Inquisitor
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
12,594
Reputation score
30,744
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

What, no long-winded post telling me why extending an axis infinitely won't create any friction?
 

Crawdaddy

Tentacle God
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
1,355
Reputation score
749
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

honestly i am talking about the main antarctica page, and I don't understand why the man Børge Ousland is so important

[...]

Edit: I am sorry if this looks like moving the goal posts but i was talking about
Børge isn't important, he was just the first guy off the top of my head. That you weren't aware of these, or that the main wiki page doesn't really show them is fairly irrelevant.

And judging from your first post on the subject, it does strike me as goalpost-moving, but fair enough, we don't need to discuss this further. My point here is that if numerous people over the ages have crossed the Antarctic continent, then it's fairly obvious that the continent does not act as the "border" of the planet, because that would be physically impossible. The same applies to the boats that have circumnavigated Antarctica, since if Antarctica had been the circumference of the world, then that journey would have taken months. I understand that you're not personally a proponent of the flat Earth hypothesis, but I felt it was necessary to correct what I aw as an incorrect observation on your part, as it could lead people to an incorrect conclusion.


Like I have mentioned before, dams can be constructed, creating a "perpetual motion" from a technology/man-made water-fall. The water-fall has to get its "motion" from somewhere, too, but where does that get its energy from, unless the answer given will be something like "gravity" provides its own energy ? Weak Force (responsible for decay), Strong Force (responsible for resisting decay), Gravity (I do not particularly believe in the conventional explanation on this), Electro-Magnetism (everyone should be familiar with this already), amongst which Gravity is apparently the least-understood.
Gravity, as you correctly noted, is one of the four fundamental forces, and it is a property of the relationship between two or more objects with mass, as in it attracts objects with mass towards each other. There are mathematical formulae for this, that can be tested and would have been falsified if they were wrong.

"Perpetual machines" like waterfalls are dependant on the water cycle, which is powered by energy from the sun. Sunlight heats up water to the point where the water molecules vibrate enough to counteract the Van der Waals-bond (basically a very weak electromagnetic bond between molecules) and so turn into a gaseous form. This gaseous form has a low density, which causes it to rise in the atmosphere, until it goes high enough where it loses heat energy and condences into clouds, and then they eventually fall down as precipitation.

I'm sorry for the middle school/high school earth science lecture, but my point is that energy always comes from somewhere. Can gravity create energy? Well, it can transform it, at least. The fusion of the sun is caused from heating due to extreme density, which in turn is due to gravity, but I'm not an astronomer, so you'd probably be better off asking questions about harnessing gravity for energy production on a science forum.


The issue I have with using the word "insultation" involves the fact that most insulation I am familiar with is intended and designed for trapping heat within, rather than keeping heat out,
As Shrike pointed out, insulation is a property of heat conveyance, not about "insides" and "outsides". Personal familiarity with terms does not grant one the right to simply reinvent definitions.

Re: Hot spot said:
That is the description that is given by the uploaders/flat-earthers.
It's not a very accurate description, and may be due to the fact that the uploader isn't the most unbiased observer.

Certainly. Are you saying that the clouds are shaped in such a manner that they are causing a concentration of light into one specific spot or region at the top of the clouds?
As Shrike pointed out, that spot is a reflection spot, and is a property of the position of the observer as much as it is a property of the sun (and its position) itself.

It works on snow as well:
I hope no one here is seriously arguing that this stripe of glowy snow is "nearer" the sun than the other parts.

Here's a bunch of animators discussing the issue:


I am not assuming, and I DO in fact, question the age. Not to mention the fact that the "distance to the sun" has actually "changed" within the college text-books depending on which year you go back
It is natural that they do, because observations get more accurate over the years. Look at maps of any given piece of land, and you'll see them vary over time, and get more accurate over centuries and decades. This isn't contrary to science, this is a part of science.

Additionally, measuring an very specific distance to the sun can be challenging, because sometimes one measures the distance to the sun's corona and sometimes to its surface, or any of it's several layers between the corona and surface. It's not a massive difference in the grand scheme of things, but it can seem odd to laymen like ourselves.
 
Last edited:

HentaiWriter

Tentacle God
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
751
Reputation score
366
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

is this seriously a fucking topic lol
we really don't need to give people who believe this any more attention, anyone who believes the earth is flat legitimately has some serious problems
 

super_slicer

Lord High Inquisitor
Staff member
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
12,594
Reputation score
30,744
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

is this seriously a fucking topic lol
we really don't need to give people who believe this any more attention, anyone who believes the earth is flat legitimately has some serious problems
Now now HW, they'll think you're just as crazy as you think they are. Besides, this thread has become TAKUMARU VS. SCIENCE! Guess who's winning?
 

HentaiWriter

Tentacle God
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
751
Reputation score
366
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

just got this in my ratings comments;

"While i agree with you, you's attitude doesn't help in this situation, i guess the entire europe/world population had problems when they pyred the round believers in medieval ages..."

you realize my post was talking about people TODAY, in the year 2016, right? why on earth would I say that people back in the medieval ages were idiots for believing this when we didn't have the technology to confirm it back then?
 

Mamono Assault Force

Coon Tamer
RP Moderator
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
19,403
Reputation score
442
Re: The Shape of the Earth is Actually in Debate...!

Fly in a plane. Look out of your window. Confirm whether the land below you is flat or round.

Do not ask anyone else, or debate the idea. Just use your eyes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top