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CDom
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
again, not into rape stuff (and yet somehow I like run or rape games... don't ask... I don't know...), but I sincerely hope Zeta gets a major win out on all of this. Zu sounds like he's about to completely screw-up his fanbase like Toon Pimp did because he's now apparently some sort of anti-social prick. As not only a consumer of various products, but also a PRODUCER or various products, this offends me on both fronts. You don't need to necessarily feed your fans, but do NOT, for the love of all that is good, do NOT shit on your fans! Even serial murderers know better than to do that!!! ... Er... Most of them anywho...
Just realized some might go "I demand proof"... Ted Bundy; and that-one-cultist-guy-I-forgot-the-name-of... It's a great Get-out-of-Jail-Free-Card if you have a bunch of fans and people going "that there is the most awesome man ever."
again, not into rape stuff (and yet somehow I like run or rape games... don't ask... I don't know...), but I sincerely hope Zeta gets a major win out on all of this. Zu sounds like he's about to completely screw-up his fanbase like Toon Pimp did because he's now apparently some sort of anti-social prick. As not only a consumer of various products, but also a PRODUCER or various products, this offends me on both fronts. You don't need to necessarily feed your fans, but do NOT, for the love of all that is good, do NOT shit on your fans! Even serial murderers know better than to do that!!! ... Er... Most of them anywho...
Just realized some might go "I demand proof"... Ted Bundy; and that-one-cultist-guy-I-forgot-the-name-of... It's a great Get-out-of-Jail-Free-Card if you have a bunch of fans and people going "that there is the most awesome man ever."
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
that like the Jim Jones cult, I'll take you out with one punch
ya know, everyone always talked about that situation like people were convinced to commit suicide through brainwashing, which technically isn't the case. They WERE brainwashed into moving out of the country, but at the final act of suicide, the first didn't know it had poison, and the rest were held inside a large single room with the exits all guarded and they were forced to drink at gunpoint. Your point still stands, its just an interesting, rarely heard point.
My name ain't Quasimodo, but I still got a hunch
that like the Jim Jones cult, I'll take you out with one punch
ya know, everyone always talked about that situation like people were convinced to commit suicide through brainwashing, which technically isn't the case. They WERE brainwashed into moving out of the country, but at the final act of suicide, the first didn't know it had poison, and the rest were held inside a large single room with the exits all guarded and they were forced to drink at gunpoint. Your point still stands, its just an interesting, rarely heard point.
Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
From a neutral standpoint here, if you get rid of Zu and discontinue use of any involvement Rock Candy had in this project, you need to stop using his sprite animations as well. Using animations and characters without consent is not ethical.
So it seems you have pretty much two choices here:
You can get rid of Zu and all the sprite animations Rock Candy did
or
You keep Zu in the game along with the animations.
Or I suppose the third route: You take Zu out and keep the animations. However, I would advise against such moves.
And yes, I signed up just to say that
From a neutral standpoint here, if you get rid of Zu and discontinue use of any involvement Rock Candy had in this project, you need to stop using his sprite animations as well. Using animations and characters without consent is not ethical.
So it seems you have pretty much two choices here:
You can get rid of Zu and all the sprite animations Rock Candy did
or
You keep Zu in the game along with the animations.
Or I suppose the third route: You take Zu out and keep the animations. However, I would advise against such moves.
And yes, I signed up just to say that
Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
ok while this is technically true. i would assume that she got permission to use the animations from him before hand. if she wants to take out one specific character but keep everything else she technically can because she had permissionFrom a neutral standpoint here, if you get rid of Zu and discontinue use of any involvement Rock Candy had in this project, you need to stop using his sprite animations as well. Using animations and characters without consent is not ethical.
So it seems you have pretty much two choices here:
You can get rid of Zu and all the sprite animations Rock Candy did
or
You keep Zu in the game along with the animations.
Or I suppose the third route: You take Zu out and keep the animations. However, I would advise against such moves.
And yes, I signed up just to say that
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
I wouldn't care either way. He can petition to have his stuff taken out, and maybe she should comply then but, until that point, how does living up to her part of the bargain while he doesn't make her the wrong one?
*Edit* if you want a tattoo of a skull on your back and you wake up with a Kermit the Frog, you're not obliged to pay the person.
I wouldn't care either way. He can petition to have his stuff taken out, and maybe she should comply then but, until that point, how does living up to her part of the bargain while he doesn't make her the wrong one?
*Edit* if you want a tattoo of a skull on your back and you wake up with a Kermit the Frog, you're not obliged to pay the person.
Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
To be honest, if you all want her to be the kind of person who gets revenge on people who have wronged her, instead of being the kind of person who can take the blows and be mad, but ultimately forgive the person, well you can go right ahead and think like that.
I personally think Zeta is a better person, and while she may have been wronged, I don't think she wants to hurt her own fans by getting rid of characters and monsters in game that would further the joy of it.
Instead of being mad at Rock Candy for having wronged her, you need to focus on how Zeta might be feeling right now. All this revenge talk is bullshit.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
-Gandhi
To be honest, if you all want her to be the kind of person who gets revenge on people who have wronged her, instead of being the kind of person who can take the blows and be mad, but ultimately forgive the person, well you can go right ahead and think like that.
I personally think Zeta is a better person, and while she may have been wronged, I don't think she wants to hurt her own fans by getting rid of characters and monsters in game that would further the joy of it.
Instead of being mad at Rock Candy for having wronged her, you need to focus on how Zeta might be feeling right now. All this revenge talk is bullshit.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
-Gandhi
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
That is neither what I said, nor what you suggested. One of the things you suggested was getting rid of the character AND the animations. If animation potential for the fans is the only criteria, then the case as it is right now is meeting somewhere in the middle, not the getting rid of things entirely option.
How about one of the oldest phrases in humanity "Treat others how you'd like to be treated?" Rock Candy's usage of Zeta's suggestion to further his own ends clearly illustrates how he'd like to be treated in kind.
Not to mention the fact that, mathematically, the most advantageous strategy for all parties in any co-dependency is tit-for-tat which involves cooperation at first, but immediate reciprocity of their wrong doings that are quick to be forgiven past the reaction.
That is neither what I said, nor what you suggested. One of the things you suggested was getting rid of the character AND the animations. If animation potential for the fans is the only criteria, then the case as it is right now is meeting somewhere in the middle, not the getting rid of things entirely option.
How about one of the oldest phrases in humanity "Treat others how you'd like to be treated?" Rock Candy's usage of Zeta's suggestion to further his own ends clearly illustrates how he'd like to be treated in kind.
Not to mention the fact that, mathematically, the most advantageous strategy for all parties in any co-dependency is tit-for-tat which involves cooperation at first, but immediate reciprocity of their wrong doings that are quick to be forgiven past the reaction.
Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
Well, did you ever consider than Zeta might have misunderstood Rock Candy?
Did you ever think that maybe, there's another side to this story instead of blindly following what she says?
I have talked with Rock Candy about this.
As you may know, Zeta doesn't have the best grammar in the world. Rock Candy has shown me snippets of conversations they had, and her grammar was very much impaired. It seems her grammar has very much improved since then.
Rock Candy also is not of English descent, as English isn't his first language as well.
My understanding is, this dispute was caused by a language gap.
According to Rock Candy, he asked her about the character change. Maybe she didn't quite understand the question. Or maybe he didn't ask her at all.
All I know is unless chat logs are brought forth we have no proof to dispute or prove these hypotheses.
We have a he said-she said argument in the works. Since you all interact with Zeta and not Rock Candy, obviously you'd take Zeta's side.
"Treat others as you wish to be treated."
It seems to me, Rock Candy went above and beyond the original agreement of just including a character, when he agreed to make monsters and the like.
he treated her well, and had every intention of helping her a long the way. So why would he intentionally sabotage that relationship he had forged by making a flash, and sticking one of his own characters in it?
Of course, you also have to consider that when she asked him if he could edit it and make it look like her character he did say no. At that time he was under the impression that it'd be fine putting his character in it, due to supposed agreement he and zeta had. having to redo something is extremely frustrating, so I can see where he is coming from.
As for your tit-for-tat symbiosis, that only works in situations where the negotiations haven't broken down and people are still willing to listen to each other.
Well, did you ever consider than Zeta might have misunderstood Rock Candy?
Did you ever think that maybe, there's another side to this story instead of blindly following what she says?
I have talked with Rock Candy about this.
As you may know, Zeta doesn't have the best grammar in the world. Rock Candy has shown me snippets of conversations they had, and her grammar was very much impaired. It seems her grammar has very much improved since then.
Rock Candy also is not of English descent, as English isn't his first language as well.
My understanding is, this dispute was caused by a language gap.
According to Rock Candy, he asked her about the character change. Maybe she didn't quite understand the question. Or maybe he didn't ask her at all.
All I know is unless chat logs are brought forth we have no proof to dispute or prove these hypotheses.
We have a he said-she said argument in the works. Since you all interact with Zeta and not Rock Candy, obviously you'd take Zeta's side.
"Treat others as you wish to be treated."
It seems to me, Rock Candy went above and beyond the original agreement of just including a character, when he agreed to make monsters and the like.
he treated her well, and had every intention of helping her a long the way. So why would he intentionally sabotage that relationship he had forged by making a flash, and sticking one of his own characters in it?
Of course, you also have to consider that when she asked him if he could edit it and make it look like her character he did say no. At that time he was under the impression that it'd be fine putting his character in it, due to supposed agreement he and zeta had. having to redo something is extremely frustrating, so I can see where he is coming from.
As for your tit-for-tat symbiosis, that only works in situations where the negotiations haven't broken down and people are still willing to listen to each other.
slpowerhouse
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
as a third party I have seen the reactions of both parties for this argument and it seems to me that Zeta is the one that is in the right. she made a deal with Rock Candy and Rock Candy did not hold up with end of the deal while Zeta had already held up her end.
All I want from this whole thing is that Zeta does what is in her best interest and the best interest of her fans. If anyone stops being a fan of Zeta's game because she removed another person's character form the game then they were not really a fan of the game.
Zeta was originally talking about putting Zu back into the game but is having second thoughts about this. For most of the people that play this game they look at it as a sonic fan game so they expect to see sonic characters in the game or fan characters in the case of Zeta being in the game. Zu is just a random cat girl that has nothing to do with the Sonic franchise at all so nothing is really lost with the removal of Zu.
as a third party I have seen the reactions of both parties for this argument and it seems to me that Zeta is the one that is in the right. she made a deal with Rock Candy and Rock Candy did not hold up with end of the deal while Zeta had already held up her end.
All I want from this whole thing is that Zeta does what is in her best interest and the best interest of her fans. If anyone stops being a fan of Zeta's game because she removed another person's character form the game then they were not really a fan of the game.
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
Then the negotiations were never opened if the agreement suffered language dispute. Agreeing to trade services, and then the service you get isn't what you wanted, no matter the confusion, doesn't mean removing yourself from the deal is "revenge." I don't see how anyone can claim that.
Whether or not they had ironed things out, the concept of a deal was negged when one side was misunderstood and pulling out any bit doesn't make it evil. I don't interact with either artist but am a fan of both, and zeta is definitely not in the wrong, the only argument is whether or not either Rock Candy is wrong, or both were mistaken.
Keeping his character in the game without getting what she wanted would be considered a charity, but like you said, charity to the fans is what's important.
I don't place myself in other peoples shoes to judge their mentalities as I often make the mistake of assuming people are reasonable, which they often are not.
And no, titfortat was specifically set up for any of those situations and still benefit the person using it when negotiations end.
Then the negotiations were never opened if the agreement suffered language dispute. Agreeing to trade services, and then the service you get isn't what you wanted, no matter the confusion, doesn't mean removing yourself from the deal is "revenge." I don't see how anyone can claim that.
Whether or not they had ironed things out, the concept of a deal was negged when one side was misunderstood and pulling out any bit doesn't make it evil. I don't interact with either artist but am a fan of both, and zeta is definitely not in the wrong, the only argument is whether or not either Rock Candy is wrong, or both were mistaken.
Keeping his character in the game without getting what she wanted would be considered a charity, but like you said, charity to the fans is what's important.
I don't place myself in other peoples shoes to judge their mentalities as I often make the mistake of assuming people are reasonable, which they often are not.
And no, titfortat was specifically set up for any of those situations and still benefit the person using it when negotiations end.
Incubus
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
And ultimately, if this was all a little misunderstanding, working it out shouldn't have gotten to the stage it's currently at. I cannot cast any blame on either party for this one for the degradation of any "simple misunderstanding" it began as due to not being present to witness the conversations but clearly at least one party is at fault here, most likely both.
But to sum up, I find your attitude highly offensive, and a knee jerk reaction to some people not liking your chosen hero. And comes across as hypocritical since you're accusing everyone of being one sided and not looking at all the information. So kindly go away. Thank you.
See, you'd bring up a good point if you weren't being an ass, and weren't making broad sweeping statements. I'm fairly certain in my first post, I said something a little like this:
And then there are other people, who said things like
Also, no, I've never interacted with either artist. Zeta herself doesn't post here to my knowledge and if she has, I haven't noticed it. I am, however, more naturally inclined to like her because of Rockcandy's recent actions, which have been reasonably well documented in this thread.
And ultimately, if this was all a little misunderstanding, working it out shouldn't have gotten to the stage it's currently at. I cannot cast any blame on either party for this one for the degradation of any "simple misunderstanding" it began as due to not being present to witness the conversations but clearly at least one party is at fault here, most likely both.
But to sum up, I find your attitude highly offensive, and a knee jerk reaction to some people not liking your chosen hero. And comes across as hypocritical since you're accusing everyone of being one sided and not looking at all the information. So kindly go away. Thank you.
JohnDoe
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
In my humble opinion one can misunderstand many things, but the main source of misunderstanding comes from the fact that one or both the interlocutors don't care enough about what the other wants or intends, so the one that doesn't get what he/she/it wanted is the one that was wronged, for when all is said and done Zeat didn't get what she wanted while Rockcandy did, he is the one that ignored her wishes or didn't bother enough to understand them.
Not saying rockcandy is evil or zeta is a saint, just stating facts.
You can sue him for damage to your person, which can bring to him losing his license, in the worst case scenario he might not have a license or not respect hygenic standards(or whatever it's called in english) and suffer heavy sanctions or go to jail. Now that would be revenge.
In my humble opinion one can misunderstand many things, but the main source of misunderstanding comes from the fact that one or both the interlocutors don't care enough about what the other wants or intends, so the one that doesn't get what he/she/it wanted is the one that was wronged, for when all is said and done Zeat didn't get what she wanted while Rockcandy did, he is the one that ignored her wishes or didn't bother enough to understand them.
Not saying rockcandy is evil or zeta is a saint, just stating facts.
MrMe
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
-Gandhi
Gandhi wasn't actually the top notch bloke everyone thinks he was.
"We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do... We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race."
-Gandhi
Gandhi wasn't actually the top notch bloke everyone thinks he was.
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
The fallacy of appeal to authority. It's really quite a shame.
The fallacy of appeal to authority. It's really quite a shame.
Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
Well i messaged Rock Candy about this whole thing with ZetaR02 and this is what he said when i ask him about why he was harsh to ZetaR02 and all.
I see.
Well, I did ask her if I could make the flash with Zoo instead, and she told me yes. What I didn't realize back then, was that she misunderstood my question, and I made the flash like it was.
Also, when I said greedy, I meant greedy as in art-greedy, not money, which lots of those guys misunderstood.
Like, greedy, because the flash as it was was not good enough for her. I still made it for her. But then she was all like mad.
:C
And now she's suddenly even angrier.
But it is kind of fun to see all this hate :3
Then i replied to his message saying that will she work with ZetaR02 again, this is what he said.
I'm not angry or something, that's all her. So I will if she wants to.
That's all, lol please don't be harsh to me about my comment, i'm just new xD
Well i messaged Rock Candy about this whole thing with ZetaR02 and this is what he said when i ask him about why he was harsh to ZetaR02 and all.
I see.
Well, I did ask her if I could make the flash with Zoo instead, and she told me yes. What I didn't realize back then, was that she misunderstood my question, and I made the flash like it was.
Also, when I said greedy, I meant greedy as in art-greedy, not money, which lots of those guys misunderstood.
Like, greedy, because the flash as it was was not good enough for her. I still made it for her. But then she was all like mad.
:C
And now she's suddenly even angrier.
But it is kind of fun to see all this hate :3
Then i replied to his message saying that will she work with ZetaR02 again, this is what he said.
I'm not angry or something, that's all her. So I will if she wants to.
That's all, lol please don't be harsh to me about my comment, i'm just new xD
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Re: Project X - current version demo 2.8
Damn, parsing these posts is breaking my mind. Could someone please make me feel better by reassuring me that English is not Zeta's native language? I guess my understanding of the situation is this:
There are two major players: Zeta (the creator of 'project X') and Rock Candy (hereafter 'RC', the person behind the idea of Zu).
At some time in the past, RC suggested two things: Zu as a character in project X and RC making a flash movie for Zeta. Unfortunately, Zeta and RC understood this differently.
RC thought that they would be making a flash animation catering to Zeta's unusual fetishes (and may not have even intended this as "payment" for Zu, but just as a gift and Zu as a suggestion). I'm not 100% clear on this, but RC may even have done some sort of substantial work on Zu herself (possibly voice work?).
Zeta thought that RC would be making a flash animation featuring Zeta as the main character, and that this would be in payment for adding Zu (a character that doesn't fit well into the universe project x takes place in). When the final animation was other then she expected, she saw RC going back on their deal and removed Zu from the game.
=========================================================
This all seems like it is mainly the result of language issues. Or at least my understanding is flawed as a result of the broken english of Zeta and/or RC.
As for the players' role in this... there is none. Zeta's decision seems to have been made without consideration of the people playing the game. And it's fine to design a free game without catering to players. But this feels like punishing all the players for the actions of one.
Anyway, Zu was the only character non-furry enough for me to enjoy playing, so I'm kinda disappointed. But then again there hasn't exactly been much progress lately anyway, so not that disappointed.
Damn, parsing these posts is breaking my mind. Could someone please make me feel better by reassuring me that English is not Zeta's native language? I guess my understanding of the situation is this:
There are two major players: Zeta (the creator of 'project X') and Rock Candy (hereafter 'RC', the person behind the idea of Zu).
At some time in the past, RC suggested two things: Zu as a character in project X and RC making a flash movie for Zeta. Unfortunately, Zeta and RC understood this differently.
RC thought that they would be making a flash animation catering to Zeta's unusual fetishes (and may not have even intended this as "payment" for Zu, but just as a gift and Zu as a suggestion). I'm not 100% clear on this, but RC may even have done some sort of substantial work on Zu herself (possibly voice work?).
Zeta thought that RC would be making a flash animation featuring Zeta as the main character, and that this would be in payment for adding Zu (a character that doesn't fit well into the universe project x takes place in). When the final animation was other then she expected, she saw RC going back on their deal and removed Zu from the game.
=========================================================
This all seems like it is mainly the result of language issues. Or at least my understanding is flawed as a result of the broken english of Zeta and/or RC.
As for the players' role in this... there is none. Zeta's decision seems to have been made without consideration of the people playing the game. And it's fine to design a free game without catering to players. But this feels like punishing all the players for the actions of one.
Anyway, Zu was the only character non-furry enough for me to enjoy playing, so I'm kinda disappointed. But then again there hasn't exactly been much progress lately anyway, so not that disappointed.
