Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Huh, that's quite a bit of bullshit. Really reminds you why the T5's are T5's.

So, how exactly do I cover up these weaknesses? I want to keep the general theme of the build, but i'm open to changes.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Standalone class? eh, then that.

At level 5, a normal turn from me would be two attacks of 1d8+7+2d6. I don't know the recommenced DPR for character levels, but is that not good?

Assuming you can keep that DPR up and going and hit your targets its.. below average. Assuming your full attack hits and sneaks we look at an average DPR of 27. Keeping in mind better crit range that damage increases by 5-10% depending on weapon, not gonna reach 30 at this point, assuming crit and sneak vunerable characters(That, by the way, the sneak immunity thing, is another srs problem for your build.. how does it deal with mind and sneak immune undead?)

Lvl 5 alchemist vivisectionist-beastmorph, to stick with the theme, with Feral mutagen on.:
3 attacks for 1d8 +6 +3d6/ 1d6+ 3+ 3d6/1d6+3 +3d6, uses weapon finesse and deadly agility on natural weapons, total DPR of 55, nothing super-crazy for lvl 5 in powerbuilder circles, but almost double yours. The gap widens as levels are gained, and gets scary once we get into the whole pouncing-charging territory.

I have access to every ninja trick at level 3, I have a climb speed and scent at level 1, I can walk through walls whenever I want at level 5, I'm a bloody level 4 spellcaster, and I have skill points out the ass. Please, tell me what I can add to increase my utility? If you're going to point out flaws, please give me ways to fix them. That's all I ask.

I already pointed them out.

What kind of SR's can I expect at higher level play? Is there anyway I can surpass high SR's?

Did you actually look at what I linked?

Also, I'd still love advice on the tremor sense thing, I haven't found anything to counter it.

I said it in the same sentence, flight.

p.s. The demon army encounter is actually not easy for a -single- lvl 20 character.. by the by, I personally am opposed to having the chaotic demons be so tactical, but then again, you can play the same game with devils... just that Pit fiends get even scarier anywhoo.
That said, look at this demon battalion and imagine having a cleric of 20th level, 'I walk into the middle of the demons and cast holy word, who is still alive?' To put things into perspective, at that point everyone but the Marilith is at least out of the fight and likely half the enemy force is dead, if the Vrocks fucked off earlier cast energy immunity:electricity just to be certain. You could hardly find my cleric without a persistant deathward, energy immunities and Freedom of movement, oh and of course a ring of counterspells with dispel magic saved in it, for obvious reasons.

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I said it in the same sentence, flight.

The way you said it, it mad it sound like you were asking how I would deal with flight itself.

DPR DPR DPR

The average of 1d8 and 1d6 are 4.5 and 3.5 respectively.

That would mean one attack would be 4.5+7+3.5+3.5, making an average of 18.5. And with a second attack, it'd bring it up to an average of 37. This isn't including the 18-20 crit range my katana has. I don't know where you got 27 from.

I already pointed them out.

I... didn't notice you mention anything about the utility of my character beforehand. Could you repeat it?

Did you actually look at what I linked?

Are you referring to the links related to the vivisectionist? If so, yes. I'm quite aware. However it has almost no relation to my character at all, so that isn't a solution. If I wanted to fix it like that, i'd just be a wizard.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

whops. 37. Misstype. Fair bit above average then. but you can't keep that up for long is my point.

Are you referring to the links related to the vivisectionist?

This will end faster if I just check for you *checks the monster entries* SR 27 is an appropriate Sr for a lvl 20 character to face on their own and thats lowballing it. No chance of sucess unless your CL is 8 or higher, btw, in Zilrax example, yes, demons usually have SR too.

I... didn't notice you mention anything about the utility of my character beforehand. Could you repeat it?

I went through every aspect of your character from race to class options, giving you something that can do what you want to do, and better, that was what you requested. Your request was not:

However it has almost no relation to my character at all, so that isn't a solution.

'Make this build stronger, but also don't change it overly'

I've helped a lot of folks out with builds, but usually it comes to this point, do you want to be strong, or do you want to have a certain fluff to it? I gave you a strong option, you didn't seem in favour, so we are back to the original question..

What do you want? Because apparently its not just 'High stealth and versatilty lategame' but also 'I want it to contain aspects XYZ of the original build as well' which of course limits how 'good' you can make this with the lackluster original build. Sorry, but I am under the impression that your build was crafted more for what sounded good, without any mental playtesting. I can see the ninja basis as an idea and the champion dip, but you're just collecting features.

You cannot just Frankenstein' a bunch of classes you think powerful together and expect the result to be powerful. Power can come from being the best at what you do, it can come from versatility and planning, but, as Zilrax and I pointed out with the rage vs stealth and towering ego, the parts are actually working against one another. As a rule of thumb, if the base class at lvl 20 can do more damage than you when its kinda your job to put out damage.. thats a bad sign. now compare what rogue lvl 20 can do to your build. If you say 'I dun want rogue, but I want versatility but also still stealth'.. Arcane trickster. Works with charisma casting too, can get you lvl 9 spells(yes, charisma stuff too) and +5d6 sneak attack damage.. that also apply to spells while at it. Also, for stealth fans, greater invisibility without Ki cost as a free action, up to 10 rounds/day.

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I should probably point out that i'd have an essentially immortal familiar that can threaten spaces, by level 5. So, i'd have a flanking buddy with me at all times. Which would add 1d3-1+1d6, which is 4.5. So, it's 41.5 DPR if you want to include him.

Level 10 DPR: 3 attacks of 1d8+13+3d6 =28 per attack, or 84 for a full attack. 99 if my challenge is up. 103.5 if you include my familiar. (Not including haste)

Level 15 DPR 4 attacks of 1d8+13+3d6+ a one time damage of 5+1d6 which is 121.5. 131 with challenge and familiar.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. There's a noticeable drop off of damage after level 10. Most likely because Painful stare in only applied once per round, so it doesn't have the umfph of a standard sneak attack.

And I apologize for not being specific. And I'd also like to specify that this isn't for a level 20 campaign, it is simply a build plan for any campaign. Which is why I only included feats for up to level 13, since I don't know what to get past that.

I want a character that has psychic spell casting, high amounts of stealth, Perception, and survival, can travel around in even supernatural darkness without problems (Scent, any of the senses), and has a bunch of spiffy abilities.

The character has evolved plenty though the weeks, at first I tried to have the magus shoved in, that didn't work. Then I tried to shove the Spiritualist in, but the class isn't that good, especially for dipping. Then I learned about the mesmerist, which is pretty dip friendly.

So, I guess what i'm trying to ask is, what class features are the best for all my classes? Cavalier order, Mesmerist tricks, spells, possibly remaining feats... That's the stuff I want some help with, sorry for not being clear enough.

Edit: Also, undead are no longer immune to crits and sneak attacks. A lot of immunities were removed with Pathfinder.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I want a character that has psychic spell casting, high amounts of stealth, Perception, and survival, can travel around in even supernatural darkness without problems (Scent, any of the senses), and has a bunch of spiffy abilitie

Clerilc, if yo dun want psions.

Level 10 DPR: 3 attacks of 1d8+13+3d6 =28 per attack, or 84 for a full attack. 99 if my challenge is up. 103.5 if you include my familiar. (Not including haste)

Pure babaian lvl 7 m unnúirtak rabger archetype, enahnced damade reduction feats.. Reduce your dps by 8 per attack.

Next, Assumine the Barbarian is using their classic chasis, STr 24 at that piont, using good cons and extra attac, can literlly do what your character does, thats a (2d6 +21) x 4, aka 77.. not including things.If you want me to include thins it'd siply go : 'lol paladin, Divine boombbomb., ever been smitted by a poulre paladin build? rbbb

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

How the fuck is the barbarian attacking 4 times at level 7? 2 BAB attacks and if it gets buffed by someone else, one more with haste. Everything i've included is entirely provided by the character itself, not buffs given by others. So, i'd really like to know where you pulled out 4 attacks from.

Also the example you provided is still lower than my damage. And Paladin? Is this a Gestalt build? Where are you getting smite from?

can literlly do what your character does

Except he can't do 50% of the things my character can do at that level. Why are you going out of your way to shit on this build? I am asking for advice, not asking for for you to compare other builds that can do things better. Fucking seriously.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Ok DaBomb, I need you to slow down and do a nice sandwich here ok.

First the nice stuf.. rp wise, if you wanna make draino the strength draining caster with magical adapt magical lineage and intensify spelll(ray of enfeeblement) that only uses that spell, ever, more power to you, but you do ask for a powerbuild.
In that regard I have to tell you you haven't got a goodg rasp of the system at all, not because you interact with it a lot but because not everything seems within your horizon and frankly, I don't have the time to exensively explain every last detail to you.. I got rps to run. If you have specific questions. sure.

Barbarian can with ease attack four times on lvl 7, bab allows two attacks,the other two come crom dual wielding.. that said, in this case I simply misstyped, as s the strongest buillds actually use scythes, been thinking of those.

By the by, heres the math for a single scythe attack vs your katana attack: 2d4 +7+2d6 vs average 18.5, crit increases numeric dage so your case is 10.5 x15% = 11.959 Damage, 20 assuming criticals into the calcuation.

By comparison, just to give you an idea, scythe crit:
6 .2d6, again 1.05 damage, hoewever, multiplied by 5 its 5.25, aka 2d4+12.5 (assuming your dex for the enenfit here) , 18.5 average, without a need for stneak attacks add in those if you feel like it and you get 29 per hit. Not eough? double wield it , again more, this time I simply monkey grip double wielded it, ofc the ab is abyssmal..but considering your average AB you haven't calculated that in at all either way.

Aka, if you were to convince a Dm to use finessable scythes your effective damage would go from 19.55 an attack to 20,15.. aka 20.3 average damage on a crit -without sneaks. Keep in mind, sneaks would add a bit over 7 ro this.

Why are you going out of your way to shit on this build? I am asking for advice, not asking for for you to compare other builds that can do things better. Fucking seriously.

You ask us to make things better. Not to coddle you and tell you how awesume your build is. Its not. Stengthwise it feels like a lvl 14 or so build due to all the thing you mix and match. If you wanted only praise and cheers.. wrong place for that I'm afraid. If 'you just wan pats on the back and cheers I to belive theres other forums.

In actual PNP, for example,

Except he can't do 50% of the things my character can do at that level. Why are you going out of your way to shit on this build?

Wanna bet i can find a potion/extract, even on this low level that completely contradicts what you just said?

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Wow, okay. I don't know what the fuck I said that ruined your mood. Care to step off your blatant high horse?

I don't recall asking you to build an entirely new character for me, I asked how I could make this one better. You have entirely ignored what i've asked for and instead insulted me, rather than come up with a solution.

if you wanna make draino the strength raining caster with magical adapt magkcal lineage and intensify spelll(ray of enveeblement) that only uses that spell

lul, wut? When the fuck have I mentioned anything about that strategy? Are you really making things up just in an attempt to trash my build? Seriously, what the fuck did I say that got you so triggered by this?

Also scythes are two handed weapons, so I have no fucking clue how you got the idea that you could duel wield them.

Barbarian Can with ease attack four times on lvl 7, bab allows wo attacks,the other two come crom dual wielding.. that said, in this case I simply misstyped, as s the strongest buillds actually use scythes, been thinking of those.

Two weapon fighting? On a Barbarian? You do realize that Improved Two weapon fighting costs 17 DEX to get, right? You have to gimp some stats to have all three physical abilities that high, so good luck with you're severely mentally challenged Barbarian. How does throwing a completely minmaxed Barbarian somehow discredit my build?

Wanna bet i can find a potion/extract, even on this low level that completely contradicts what you just said?

My entire build so far has been without using magic items. Having to rely on magic items so that you're build can do what I can makes absolutely no sense at all.

And at this point I am done speaking to you. If I wanted someone to shit on something without giving a way to fix it, i'd be on 4chan.

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I don't believe demons are incapable of tactics or organising, they're simply incapable of anything more stable than rule by fear/cult of personality/reward. A horde of demons is an unruly mob if it doesn't have someone capable of seizing the reins in some manner. Marilith's are, fluff wise at least, supposed to be very good at seizing those reins and forging an actual cohesive force out of demons, else they wouldn't be generals. That they're pathetic for their cr is more mechanics not meeting the fluff, and I use an altered statblock for them and balors to make them actually match their cr.

If the Marilith dies then I'd expect the demons cohesion to break up a good bit. IF they're losing they'll probably teleport away, if they're winning they'll probably start getting more aggressive in potentially foolish manners.

An example of this behaviour is in a full scale demonic invasion set up. The demon lord's playing the long game against the mortals. He tore open the rift then let all the unaffiliated demons run through. a terrifying horde but with no leadership or unifying figure to speak of, the mortals easily rout them and lock them back up. That many demons teleported to distant lands and locations was inevitable and part of the plan.

Round 2 the demon lord deploys Succubi, Glabresu, Incubi, a Lilitu and Cultists allied with a demon lord of deceit and whips the mortal army guarding against the demons into an inquisitorial frenzy, corrupting them from within and driving them to suspicion. The army breaks itself almost and when the real demonic armies march out the mortals are nearly routed, saved only by the magical equivalent of a Maginot Line of warded artifacts that stops teleportation and burns any demon to cinders that get's within 200 feet of one.

The demons third game is now to bide time. They strike at the crusaders, probe defenses and sow despair and fear while subtly encouraging the crusaders to move ever more into vices to stem the pain and misery and because nothing can be done so why not enjoy your remaining time. They're not actually out to kill everyone, they're using the threat to corrupt them.

The demonic armies are unified around several powerful generals who can command them, and the generals are unified around the lead commander called the Storm King, a balor lord. The demons tend to act independently when not directly under orders, and several groups are basically just levies who do their own thing until threatened into the fight they'll spend time catching slaves, prowling ancient ruins for power and stalking crusaders. And even when under orders they tend to lack discipline that a devil will show.

The start of the demons downfall is really the lilitu's fault. She's ordered to guard a macguffin in a conquered human city. But she get's bored. So she orders a Glabresu to do it, figuring they can handle anything of the remnants in this city can toss at her. And she's right.

Then the Glabresu get's bored. And it orders the local cultist leader to watch over it instead. And powerful as the cultist is... Well, they're no glabresu. And things go wrong very very quickly. The Lilitu get's punished really hard for this but the damage is done.

Ultimately demons can plan, scheme and field forces that are terrifyingly effective and show tactics, but where a devil always knows his place, even if he schemes to better it, a demon is only so reliable for so long without direct supervision. Kill the alpha, and the pack will eat itself until a new one can emerge.

Anyways that's basically how in pathfinder demons are generally handled. Unreliable but not just savage beasts running around. And the worst thing about them being unreliable is sometimes they're completely and totally honest about things. A devil is as a devil does but a demon is not easily categorized. The only thing consistent about them is they will probably betray you in some manner eventually without some sort of serious reward system or delight in you.

Anyhoooo

Alright, you want a lot of stuff here. I'm not sure what we can tune that makes it better without changing it, at this point you want to keep a lot of parts and it's running up against the not specialized enough barrier.

Up until level 10 it's fine as far as offense goes, though your defenses aren't going to be that great. Your saves are going to be lowish, and Towering Ego compensates a little but it's still not that great. The mesmerist issue remains that it's a debuff class that you're kinda strapping onto a martial build, and that doesn't really work well. Mesmerists' saves are lowish due to bard dcs compensated by the will penalties from the gaze, but you're still bringing 3rd level casting to a 9th level area. And you're giving up turns to cast spells that may or may not work based off many factors when you could be, well hitting them. In that context, I would replace the Mesmerist with the Bard. They're basically the same thing, but the Bard has something the Mesmerist does not. Reliability. Buffs are inherently more reliable than debuffs, and bardic music provides you accuracy which is pretty important given your BAB is going to be on the low end.

Ultimately if you want to stick entirely to your class selection I don't think there's much that can be changed that makes it work any better than you've got. Just how it falls out sometimes.

Oh and to an earlier question, how to get around Tremorsense? Blowguns. Specifically the one on my character here.

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It's not guarunteed, but it's better odds than autofailure. Only other way would be to take enough levels in Aether Kineticist to get their version of invisibility which gives less Stealth but hides you from alternate senses. Or be flying, but that leaves the blind senses.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

If the Marilith dies then I'd expect the demons cohesion to break up a good bit. IF they're losing they'll probably teleport away, if they're winning they'll probably start getting more aggressive in potentially foolish manners.

Ironically, when I sent the alchemist character idea out, my primarly target, at lvl 20, going to the abyss or having faced demons beefore a +X iron weapon or even holy weapon would only be sensible, so I'm certain I can one round kill the Marilith as biggest threat, then propably dustform over to get a Glabrezu down as well. Only real issue are succubi stalkers till my mutagens run out but those might not feel in the mood either way. Got no way to stop them to teleport away, but none will want to report just what happened either way.

Wanna bet i can find a potion/extract, even on this low level that completely contradicts what you just said?
My entire build so far has been without using magic items. Having to rely on magic items so that you're build can do what I can makes absolutely no sense at all.

Ah, you don't get how alchemists work. Potions or rather extracts -are- their magic. Also, I distinctively recall your build using a katana, so .. whats your point?

Two weapon fighting? On a Barbarian? You do realize that Improved Two weapon fighting costs 17 DEX to get, right?

You haven't done many powerbuilds, have you? classic ranger/Barb splash for high damage dual wield and some nifty favored bonuses I didn't count in.

And at this point I am done speaking to you. If I wanted someone to shit on something without giving a way to fix it, i'd be on 4chan.

I gave you a way to fix it, just not a way that 'oh this fits perfectly in your build, AND makes it even better', because to make it better we'd first have to cut off mesmerist and bloodrager, or at least max one or the other instead.

Don't ask for advice for improvements if you can't handle criticism. Frankly, I am a bit annoyed that you post up something here, ask us for improvements, then turn your nose up at anything we offer you. As a fluff build its fine, if you ask how it can be optimized, gotta get ready to change things around. Your character would perform adequate in a low level/challenge campaign, in a higher level campaign were you deal with a demonlord and their army, to run with Zilrax examle, you don't bring much to the table.

Ultimately, Zilrax is right with:

Ultimately if you want to stick entirely to your class selection I don't think there's much that can be changed that makes it work any better than you've got. Just how it falls out sometimes.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Btw, i felt like it:

Enevero, the great Draining mag!

Spoiler

Human, Arcanist (spell specialist variant) 19/Time Thief 1 (time thiefs motes allow casting of several swift spells in one turn, to deal with multiple oponents)

Strength 8
Dexterity 13
Constitution 10
Intelligence 10
Charisma 20 (max first)

Traits: Outlander(ray of enfeeblement, Enervation, Drain energy), Magical lineage (ray of enfeeblement), Signature spell(ray of enfeeblement), Magical knack

Feats: lvl 1: More traitz, Spell focus (necromancy),
Lvl 3: Intensify spell(ray of enfeelbement),

lvl 5: Spell specialization (Ray of enfeeblement)

Lvl 7: Thanatopic spell(drain spells work on otherswise immune targets, +2)

lvl 9: Quicken spell

lvl 11: Empower spell

lvl 13: Greater Spell focus (Necromancy)

lvl 15: Spell perfection (ray of enfeeblement)

lvl 17: Spell penetration

Lvl 19: Greater spell penetration

The plan: Between oulander, signature spell and the spell-specialists arcanists pool can cast Rays of enfeeblement as for 1d6+4 at lvl1.

Goal: Shoot about Rays of enfeeblement with 1d6+4 str drain on lvl 2, we move to emowered rays of enfeeblement +5, reaching the spells maximum on lvl 3 and grab intenstify spell, which puts the spell on six, more levels, aka next level its 1d6+7, and with the next level, no.5 and its feat, we drain for 1d6 +10.

By lvl 7 I expect some undead and otherwise drain immune opponents to show up.. thats what enevervation and Thanatopic spell are for, for the midgame I can throw relatively cheap energy draings and if need be thanatopic eneverations outs.

Finally, talking endgame, lvl 15 or so, Arcanist allows us access to lots of metamagic feats, so we can focus on other things.

If anyone has a cooler idea to exhcange the shadow companion to a shadow summon I'm all open, would open the build to time thief and thus motes of time to blast several quickend rays of enfeeblement for the lulz.

Long story short,: Kills/disables with super early super hard hitting rays of enervation + Chill touch.
Can totally see himher using energy drain and enervation in tight spots, but this about it.

Goal was to make the greatest energy suckling debuffer possible.

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Ah, you don't get how alchemists work. Potions or rather extracts -are- their magic. Also, I distinctively recall your build using a katana, so .. whats your point?

lul, wut? Are we talking about a barbarian or an alchemist? You've flipped flopped a bit. (Unless we're back to the Beastmorph/vivsectionist barbarian you were referring a bit ago, if so, point taken.)

Also, completely serious, thanks for the heads up on the beastmorph archetype. I had no idea it was that good. From what i'm getting so far, you barely lose any features and you get things any martial character would kill for. The only other way I know how to get pounce, is the Barbarian's Beast totem and both classes get them at the same time. Remember the Dwarven Barb/vivisectionist I mentioned a few posts ago? I've been working on him for a while and i'm going to assume that he's similar to the build you've mentioned. Beastmorph would be perfect for him, so thanks for the tip. ^^ You'd probably like this build a lot more, it's built entirely for killing BBEG's in one round. :^)

Also... katanas aren't magic? What does that have anything to do with magic? I don't understand where you're coming from here.

I gave you a way to fix it

I mean sure, in a way you did. You gave me something that would do what I asked for, however it wouldn't fit the character concept I had in mind. That's like telling a cavalier to scrap his entire build and just play a druid with a horse animal companion. Sure, the druid is going to be able to do do countless amount of things the T5 can't do, but... Maybe they just don't want to play a druid, you know? If you thought I was trying to diss you're build and say it wasn't good, I can assure you that wasn't my intention.

I apologize for not specifying what I wanted at the very beginning, i'm sure you can tell, I haven't been doing this for long. I've only been playing dnd for a little more than two years and it's only been a few months where i've actually 'understood' how the game works, balance between classes/features, etc. So, while I do feel like I have a deep understanding of the game, it's obvious that I don't know everything about it, as evidenced through this discussion. I've never played a high level game, so I'm not too keen on what to expect with encounters. I only ask that you have slightly more patience with me, rather than accusing me of being a special snowflake that needs praise and can't take critique. There are a number of things you suggested and I followed, so can you stop acting like i'm flat out ignoring everything you're saying? I'm not disagreeing with it on a mechanical point, i'm disagreeing with on a fluff point. You comparing your build and saying how much better it is, will not change that. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't want to completely change the character I envisioned in my head. If there's something I can do/say that will make this easier, please say so.

anything we offer you

Again, unless I missed something, you only offered me that one build, right? And I don't recall disagreeing with anything Zilrax has said. I didn't expect things to get this out of hand from me not communicating things effectively in the beginning, so again I apologize. I would prefer if you would stop making exaggerations or completely making things up, since all it does is create more friction, and does little to further your argument.

I honestly don't care about this anymore, this is more of a lack of communication than any real argument. So, i'd prefer to stop. (However, I do want to know what you meant with that katana bit. I'm honestly confused on that part.) (PSPS, Arcanists use INT as their casting ability. Unless you're using an arcehtype I haven't heard of?)

@Zilrax

Mesmerists' saves/but you're still bringing 3rd level casting to a 9th level area.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not really after the spell casting component of the Mesmerist, I was going to use it almost entirely for utility means. The main reason I put levels into it, was for the stare and the pretty rude tricks they're able to learn. I have yet to delve too deeply into the psionic classes, the Mesmerist and Spiritualist being the only two classes I have any knowledge in at all.

So, I'm more than willing to drop out a few levels in mesmerist, however i'd still like to keep a few levels, for flavour reasons. What classes should I take more levels of? I only took the one level dip into Bloodrager for the two free feats and the ability to go through walls at will, so i'd like to keep that as well. Since that's pretty fucking cool.

Also, I have a few questions. Rage/Bloodrage states that you are not able to concentrate enough to cast spells, but Towering Ego specifies you only lose it when you can't provide the emotional component to spells. Raging prevents spell casting by concentration, not emotion, so by RAW wouldn't they still work together? Also, I took Urban bloodrager as well, so it shouldn't interfere with stealth.

Oh and to an earlier question, how to get around Tremorsense? Blowguns. Specifically the one on my character here.

Do you mean blinding them with some kind of poison? Hadn't thought of that, it would mesh well with the ninja aspect. Also, blindsense and everything else wouldn't matter to my character, Tremorsense was the only thing I needed help with. (Also, isn't life sense a thing? I recall reading about it in one of the sorcerer bloodlines. Is that common enough to be a worry?)

Edit: Found

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. Is that a feature for only that bloodline or do monsters have it as well?

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Lifesense is something incorporeal undead like wraiths and spectres have. It functions like blindsense but only against the living.

And no, I meant for you to look up the name but here,

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Lifesense would fall under "similar senses" obviously, being just a slightly more specific blindsense.

The Emotion component is very clear about itself. If you do not have control of your emotions, you cannot provide it, even if it is the same emotion. Your bloodrage is Controlled, so I would allow it since it doesn't restrict you in any way. And since you already lose the will bonus from rage because of it, it's not that big a diffrence ultimately. But a normal rage does, and this section of the Id Rager implies that.

The bloodrager’s bloodrage does not prevent him from casting spells with emotional components, and he is considered to be a psychic spellcaster for the purposes of prerequisites (such as for the prerequisites of psychic duels and occult skill unlocks).

That the id rager specifically has that for itself indicates that normally it does interfere with it. Hell, the Rage spell specifically does too. So I'm pretty sure that the class feature that the spell mimics should too.

I would personally do Bard. BArdic music gives buffs, utility, and bardic music is very helpful. the Mesmerist's utility is roughly on par with bards but Mesmerists don't get Heroism, which is a staple buff. And really if you're concerned about utility on a martial character, you'll need more than what you got there. As things stand, you've got two choices. Your martialness suffers past level 10, you can either try to be mediocre everywhere or try to find ways to shore that up with utility. In the latter case, I'd say pick up Cleric or Warpriest. 9 levels get's you access to Divine Power and righteous Might out of the cleric. The Warpriest can get you some free buffs and makes up for the fact you can't buff yourself and fight at once by letting you swift action your buff spells.

Inquisitor could be an option too I suppose.

As an aside, going back to demons, I suspect regional diffrences would also play a factor in their behaviour. Demons die a lot so they have to adapt fast. evolutionary principle and such. So if you act like a slavering beast and die, the survivors who thrive are those who learn better how not to act. In a place like Lamashtu's realm where fertility, tribalism and such are her priority, demons who can act to those behaviours will thrive and those who can't will die, so you'd probably get a lot of alpha females who are motherly yet rule with an iron fist. Meanwhile in a place like the Midnight Isles which are very civilised and have actual policemen (Daemon policemen. Thanadaemon policemen. Nocticula's not stupid enough to put a demon in charge of policing demons) demons who jsut cause wanton property damage or interfere with the various mercantile pursuits get their souls ripped out. So the demons that stay there have to at least pretend to be civil. Sure there's plenty murder, backstabbing and so forth, but it looks more like an more sadistic version of victorian politics in a babylonian paradise than a slavering horde in one spot.

Hell if the Midnight Isles ever absorbed a demon lord of technology we'd probably see corporate succubi giving this lecture.

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[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Okay, another question. What are the better orders for the cavalier? Is there a specific one that would better fit the character?

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

Cavaliars never been that great a class. Mounted combat is only rivalled by archery as the best martial combat style when allowed to act with freedom (And both combineds ridiculous). That being said, of the orders it depends what you want out of them.

Order of the Star has many attack buffs that makes it good. But you;re basically a paladin at this point. Hell it kinda stacks with it. But you may as well jsut play a paladin then.

If you're a halfling, Order of the Paw has a very solid reroll mechanic ifyou know what you're getting into. Though Will is almsot always a good choice.

Order of the Lion has a powerful alpha strike at level 8 but you;re not getting there so...

Order of the Lands good at range but since you are not...

Order of the Green gets favored terrain which helps with many skills and initiative and being harder to track.

Order of the Flames good if you can drop enemies fast but otherwise...

ORde rof the Eastern Star makes sense for a light armored cavalier.

Order of the Cockatrice makes sense for a solo player because you always qualify.

So yeah those are your options.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I can do a lot of scary things with 'low tier' characters' I learned that myself by testing over and over again, not asking others for the most op things they could come up with.

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I don't have too many chances to test them out, that's why I asked for assistance.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

*whistles lowly and just plays a game that is based more upon RPing sexy things and probably won't get anywhere near level 20 in practicality.*

 

[DaBomb]

Re: Trapped in the Underdark ~ Out of Character discussion

I'll make a post tomorrow.