RPG Patreon Ci-En Fantia Unknown/Hiatus [UraMomo] Sex Machine

[Silvanya]

Now I'll preface this isn't one of my usual genre types so I came in with only a minor/moderate amount of interest but I'll give you some feedback on how I feel. And I kept rolling back and forth about posting as I feel like I didn't really give your game as much chance as I should have(and I did try again but couldn't get into it), however if you feel my feedback is unnecessary that is fine.

The battle system doesn't feel intuitive to me (Though from what I see you need to learn an enemies habits for what they want) as say one of Enokippu's games (Who I believe is one of the better devs for QTE games. [the QTEs aren't the same and pop up one by one and you press the buttons given and if you missed you lost that "battleset". You could have an enemy say left left left and same enemy use left up down. etc]). The reason I mention this is because this is a similar enough for me to draw comparisons from (Yours is different but the idea is roughly the same)About the type of "combat" system you use.

I can understand you wanting to put in randomness and the reasons you have for doing such and I can respect that, But there really isn't a gameplay hook for me coming in. As I mentioned having a minor/moderate interest learning patterns/habits for different girls feels more bothersome than not since it is just a pattern with maybe a few random ones tossed in compared to actually "knowing" a character via a regular interaction (I mean I know this is an H game but still and an early demo at that.). For instance, I feel like VA-11 Hall-A does this quite well as I would find myself making drinks I knew the character liked or was in a mood for once I saw their facial expression from memory.

The art from what I have seen is quite great and I have no qualms with it.

Your timer should reflect the actual amount of time someone is going to have rather than a same set of numbers that decreases at x rate of whatever the frames are going. i.e. if you have 20 seconds 20. If 3? 3. I'm sure if I had played more I could pick up how much time I would actually have after x amount of time depending how fast the frames are going. But it seems to make more sense to have the actual amount of time you are going to be given listed.

Anywho, hopefully this is helpful to your endeavors and I wish you luck in making your game, I'll likely try it again at some point later on. Cheers~
-If this came off as less constructive I apologize I've had a long day.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Now I'll preface this isn't one of my usual genre types so I came in with only a minor/moderate amount of interest but I'll give you some feedback on how I feel. And I kept rolling back and forth about posting as I feel like I didn't really give your game as much chance as I should have(and I did try again but couldn't get into it), however if you feel my feedback is unnecessary that is fine.

Thanks for being upfront about the fact that you don't like the game's sexual content before your feedback.
I really appreciate any feedback, and will respond in as directly and straightforwardly as I've always done no worries. Thanks for taking the time to write this out

Now... I'll separate the elements I want to talk about specifically.

The battle system doesn't feel intuitive to me (Though from what I see you need to learn an enemies habits for what they want) as say one of Enokippu's games (Who I believe is one of the better devs for QTE games. [the QTEs aren't the same and pop up one by one and you press the buttons given and if you missed you lost that "battleset". You could have an enemy say left left left and same enemy use left up down. etc]). The reason I mention this is because this is a similar enough for me to draw comparisons from (Yours is different but the idea is roughly the same)About the type of "combat" system you use.

Well it's not really a QTE since it's not Q.
You are correct about your general assumption about what you should do in battle. Glad the tutorial got that accross. I am a bit concerned about teaching people how to play the game.

I can understand you wanting to put in randomness and the reasons you have for doing such and I can respect that, But there really isn't a gameplay hook for me coming in. As I mentioned having a minor/moderate interest learning patterns/habits for different girls feels more bothersome than not since it is just a pattern with maybe a few random ones tossed in compared to actually "knowing" a character via a regular interaction (I mean I know this is an H game but still and an early demo at that.). For instance, I feel like VA-11 Hall-A does this quite well as I would find myself making drinks I knew the character liked or was in a mood for once I saw their facial expression from memory.

But you will "know" these characters from fighting them a bunch of times. By the third time you fight Rouge I'm pretty sure her patterns will be muscle memory, but you'll still want a challenge since it's a game. That's where the randomness and skill system come into play.

The problem with VA-11 type systems is that it's impossible to get wrong. Once you've memorized the order you should make you're done. There's no thinking you have to do after that. There's only one layer of gameplay and it's simple memorization.

There are two types of understanding the girl's patterns in Sex Machine. Rouge for instance always uses double arrows on her left habits and right habits. Blue always uses Opposite Arrows, so on and so forth. Rouge's first habit is always horizontal. Her Second always some kind of vertical. Stuff like that. Vert's actually really simple if you think about the button's you're pressing. It's not just about memorizing arrows but understanding the girls themselves.

This is the part of the gameplay that mostly reveals itself over a relatively long play session though, so you wouldn't realize unless you gave the game a chance (which I totally understand if you don't want to. I don't play those NTR/Ryona games at all myself so I don't even give those games a chance.)

The art from what I have seen is quite great and I have no qualms with it.

I've told Uramomo. He's a bit more dejected about the lack of Japanese interest than I am since he can't really interact with the western community.

Your timer should reflect the actual amount of time someone is going to have rather than a same set of numbers that decreases at x rate of whatever the frames are going. i.e. if you have 20 seconds 20. If 3? 3. I'm sure if I had played more I could pick up how much time I would actually have after x amount of time depending how fast the frames are going. But it seems to make more sense to have the actual amount of time you are going to be given listed.

That takes out a layer of the gameplay though.

If the timer was actual seconds time, then you wouldn't consider combat speed when it comes to the timer. If the battle speed is high, the timer has more of an influence right now then if the battle speed is low. Currently, when the girl's are moving fast, you're more conscious of how much time you have to input your commands, which incentivizes different actions on those turns. Do you focus on defense because you're about to win and hope you got the pattern correct? Do you use victory heal, and mash your way through hoping you get lucky? If the timer was a flat seconds timer you wouldn't really be all that conscious of it at any stage in the game.

Anywho, hopefully this is helpful to your endeavors and I wish you luck in making your game, I'll likely try it again at some point later on. Cheers~
-If this came off as less constructive I apologize I've had a long day.

No problem.

I don't think I'm weak minded when it comes to criticisms so keep them coming. Just understand that at the end of the day, this is my creative endeavor so if our values don't align on general game concepts I'll note your criticism but won't do anything about it.

 

[Someone92]

Are the pink ones totally random, or do they follow a pattern, too?

 

[TheUnsaid]

Are the pink ones totally random, or do they follow a pattern, too?

Completely random.

 

[zekemckillip]

Completely random.

So, after further analysis, I think my biggest issue is that Rogue, Blue, and Vert are supposed to be the trash enemies, and given that and the battle system you've devised, I don't really see how you could reasonably have mini-bosses and/or bosses. I mean, if you can die to a normal enemy in 3 turns, because it is your first fight with them and you don't know their habits, then what is a boss fight but a unique enemy where the only challenge is learning their habits?

I really, really like this idea, but I think you're trying to do too much at one time. Like with the battle speed affecting the timers and the number of diamonds. I get that the diamonds are the battle speed, but that creates an exponential difficulty increase at higher speeds, which is offset by the reduced damage, but not that much. I agree and disagree with Silvanya, I still think that the timer should be the only thing that is affected by battle speed(well obviously the animation speed too). Damage shouldn't decrease, but also the diamonds shouldn't increase, I think the number of diamonds should indicate the complexity of action you are trying to perform. Think of this in a natural real life setting, if you find a good angle and the chick is screaming for more, it isn't hard to speed up and go faster/harder, but if you're trying some new position from a Karma Sutra book you picked up that afternoon, good fucking luck getting it right on the first try, or the tenth. Again, this would help boss fights as well, because they could have a lot of skills that has them add pink diamonds.

To the same point, you say you have pink diamonds to add randomness, but again, trying to do too many things all at once, the fact that you don't see all the arrows already adds randomness. I mean sure, you CAN memorize all the habits, but there are mistypes, and against unique bosses/mini-bosses you won't know those habits, so there is already randomness. Not to say that the pink diamonds are a bad idea, but so long as they are completely random and tied to battle speed, the solution will always be, slow down the battle, and if that is the strategy 100% of the time, which I feel is the current case, then it eclipses the rest of the strategy that you have implemented into this game.

Like I said, I really, really like this idea, and I hope that you reuse it in future games, or just kinda, I don't know, make an "expansion pack" to this game. Has Uramomo done any outreach to the Japanese community? I'm sure they have their own message boards and stuff like this online, and I wouldn't know about this game if it weren't for ULMF. Also, and hopefully this doesn't get me banned, please issue me a warning if this isn't allowed, but make sure you advertise of Hongfire, and F95 Zone. Those are other HUGE western communities that could bring in extra interest.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Mind if I respond to each part of the post with my perspective. I might get a bit wordy, but I want you to know I really appreciate you taking the time to write out the big block you did. I love interaction like this and am really happy that my game has brought out so much passion in people

So, after further analysis, I think my biggest issue is that Rogue, Blue, and Vert are supposed to be the trash enemies, and given that and the battle system you've devised, I don't really see how you could reasonably have mini-bosses and/or bosses. I mean, if you can die to a normal enemy in 3 turns, because it is your first fight with them and you don't know their habits, then what is a boss fight but a unique enemy where the only challenge is learning their habits?

There are tons of ways to still have mini-bosses and bosses. Since this is an indie game "trash" enemies have a different perspective than normal enemies. There might not be more than 5 normal enemies so they should all feel special right? Also, I don't see a problem with losing to just normal enemies when you play a JRPG. But that's just an argument from my general viewpoint.
From a gameplay perspective, the first time you fight these enemies, it will be a challenge. Since you don't know the habits, it will all "feel" (for the first 2/3 turns) random and you'll most likely get a bunch of your health taken. The next time you fight that enemy however will feel more akin to those "trash" fights you were talking about, as when you know what kind of habits the enemies have it's just a matter of dealing with their skills.

So the first fight against enemies that reappear constantly will be more challenging, "meaning you can actually lose to normal enemies (my aim)" and subsequent battles against normal enemies will be easier.

I really, really like this idea, but I think you're trying to do too much at one time. Like with the battle speed affecting the timers and the number of diamonds. I get that the diamonds are the battle speed, but that creates an exponential difficulty increase at higher speeds, which is offset by the reduced damage, but not that much. I agree and disagree with Silvanya, I still think that the timer should be the only thing that is affected by battle speed(well obviously the animation speed too). Damage shouldn't decrease, but also the diamonds shouldn't increase, I think the number of diamonds should indicate the complexity of action you are trying to perform. Think of this in a natural real life setting, if you find a good angle and the chick is screaming for more, it isn't hard to speed up and go faster/harder, but if you're trying some new position from a Karma Sutra book you picked up that afternoon, good fucking luck getting it right on the first try, or the tenth. Again, this would help boss fights as well, because they could have a lot of skills that has them add pink diamonds.

Thanks for saying you enjoy the idea. I'm proud of it.

Regarding battle speed and complexity, I think you have a misunderstanding. You're not switching positions or on the offensive. The command that starts the command check is called "Prepare" not "Attack" for a reason. You're not on the offensive, you're being attacked.

The faster she moves the more random she can be and the more actions you have to worry about defending. That's the basic idea behind the white and pink diamonds.

To the same point, you say you have pink diamonds to add randomness, but again, trying to do too many things all at once, the fact that you don't see all the arrows already adds randomness. I mean sure, you CAN memorize all the habits, but there are mistypes, and against unique bosses/mini-bosses you won't know those habits, so there is already randomness. Not to say that the pink diamonds are a bad idea, but so long as they are completely random and tied to battle speed, the solution will always be, slow down the battle, and if that is the strategy 100% of the time, which I feel is the current case, then it eclipses the rest of the strategy that you have implemented into this game.

You cannot beat Vert at slow battle speeds, but I do agree that slowing down the battle speed has too much of a net positive. I'm thinking of nerfing skills that help you at low battle speeds. At low battle speeds you do not build up stamina fast enough as there's not enough actions that help you regain it, so you can't use skills that much. It's why Heart Piercing Smile on Bleu can be dangerous.

Currently at high battle speeds you have a higher chance of the passive that regens stamina to activate, you have more actions to possibly land which increases stamina and if you're at an odd number, you can lower Lust.

Like I said, I really, really like this idea, and I hope that you reuse it in future games, or just kinda, I don't know, make an "expansion pack" to this game. Has Uramomo done any outreach to the Japanese community? I'm sure they have their own message boards and stuff like this online, and I wouldn't know about this game if it weren't for ULMF. Also, and hopefully this doesn't get me banned, please issue me a warning if this isn't allowed, but make sure you advertise of Hongfire, and F95 Zone. Those are other HUGE western communities that could bring in extra interest.

Uramomo has tried his best to my knowledge.

His twitter is actually being followed by the dev of SHRIFT and ASON. He posts on pixiv, and nijie and retweets from other popular game developers in hopes of them noticing him. He's actually the most down by the fact that all of our outreach has only worked on the western market as he's not getting any energetic conversations like this one. Conversations with him have kind of devolved into one word replies, and is one of the reasons the game's being made small. I don't want him to burn out on passion before the game finishes.

Hongfire's still alive? I've already made a topic on F95. According to my itch.io Analytics tho, I barely get 1 view a day from that site. Since the game's itch page has been created I've had a grand total of

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Most of my users have come from the ULMF actually.

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The second biggest contributor is itch.io's outreach system, and the third biggest is twitter, so people are clicking on Uramomo's links at least XD.

______________________________________

I won't deny I'm a bit disappointed by the amount of support and general interest we've garnered especially after we released a working demo with 3 enemies, BUT I'm not letting it get me down. It could just be a general outreach problem where we're being drowned out by other games. Even ExcessM had this issue actually. Nobody knew about him b4 One-Syota. I think if we release a game we'll be able to garner more attention as a group.

What I see as most important is having some history. At least 1 product under our belt even if it's a short game.

 

[Aiolos1212]

I like the updated demo's balance changes quite a bit. The timer is actually a factor at higher speeds, especially when enemies use skills to speed it up. Enemies do feel noticeably smarter. Vert is a precious cinnamon roll and my favorite to fight so far by a lot - she's the only one that it feels actually possible to lose to at the moment for me.

Bleu and Rouge feel like they're in a weird spot at the moment though difficulty wise - Bleu can stretch out a fight for a long time potentially and effortlessly take your hearts, but never does enough damage to outpace what you can heal. Even with heart piercing smile, I'll eventually get that stamina and heal back up no problem, so I know I'll win eventually once I get a good string of RNG. Maybe the damage you take on losing a heart is too low? Or the low-stamina damage bonus is too low? Or maybe she just needs an offensive skill of some sort that fits her, like a damage bonus while she's at high life that dispels once she drops below 70%, or a single-turn call out skill where the orgasm damage is increased if she makes you lose a heart this turn. She can't actually finish off your willpower at the moment unless you stop healing yourself or manage your stamina really badly. Is that just me?

Rouge feels like a chump to me honestly - she has the highest number of white diamonds, which often results in her just getting wrecked in a couple turns without doing anything. If I go easy on her on purpose and miss patterns, let her get rolling on the overheat + unpredictable combo... it's still not enough. She can take my hearts easily at that point, but again - once I'm on the last heart I can outheal any damage she does easily, since the speed damage reduction is massive and overheat doesn't seem to boost it that much. Plus high speed means all your stamina passives are going nuts, so you have plenty - and once overheat breaks you're usually pushed down to slow speed where your stamina can be used on a strong heal. I was curious so I just kept fighting her over and over, even doing some fights where I just mash all one direction ignoring patterns, and... it feels impossible to lose to her unless you don't use the willpower heal.

I actually feel really safe at high speeds against everyone except vert, because the stamina passives and massive damage reduction. Merciless is amazing, and is the key reason vert has the power to actually down you.

Finally, on the publicity side - I do think a released game will get you attention. It's always possible to come back and give updates afterwards, or create sequels and future games that use the same systems.
Could also go the episodic route, like SHRIFT. Those episodes were actually pretty small, and only had a few enemies - but he was able to monetize and get feedback and build popularity through releasing them in bite-sized chunks like that. I do think if you go that route enemies will have to be a little more developed though or it won't really be enough meat to impress anybody - each enemy had a whole variety of scenes and animations in SHRIFT. For example, what if as you went through the game our three girls bleu, vert, and rouge had a couple repeat encounters with a different pose, art, and skills? Maybe a 4th girl for a chapter boss, and that could be enough for a modest price tag plus whatever you end up doing with the story and developmental systems, such as skills needing to be obtained and/or equipped.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Sorry it took so long for me to reply Aiolos! I was a bit busy today and just got back on my PC. I know that anticipation feeling waiting for the reply of a really well thought out comment and am sad I couldn't get back to you earlier T_T.

Thank you so much for the detailed response. I'll respond piece by piece as I have with the others

I like the updated demo's balance changes quite a bit. The timer is actually a factor at higher speeds, especially when enemies use skills to speed it up. Enemies do feel noticeably smarter. Vert is a precious cinnamon roll and my favorite to fight so far by a lot - she's the only one that it feels actually possible to lose to at the moment for me.

Thank you. I also noticed that the timer was a non-factor so I made sure to tie it in to character motion so you'd feel more pressured during high-speed environments.

Bleu and Rouge feel like they're in a weird spot at the moment though difficulty wise - Bleu can stretch out a fight for a long time potentially and effortlessly take your hearts, but never does enough damage to outpace what you can heal. Even with heart piercing smile, I'll eventually get that stamina and heal back up no problem, so I know I'll win eventually once I get a good string of RNG. Maybe the damage you take on losing a heart is too low? Or the low-stamina damage bonus is too low? Or maybe she just needs an offensive skill of some sort that fits her, like a damage bonus while she's at high life that dispels once she drops below 70%, or a single-turn call out skill where the orgasm damage is increased if she makes you lose a heart this turn. She can't actually finish off your willpower at the moment unless you stop healing yourself or manage your stamina really badly. Is that just me?

Hmmm... You know what... I haven't touched the bonus damage with hearts value. It probably should be a bit higher hunh? Atm I can't lose to Bleu either, even if I spend a turn purposefully fucking up.
Weird thing though is that more skills don't innately make a unit stronger unless they apply states that last for a while. I think I should probably buff Heart Piercing Smile so you're less likely to use Calm when she uses her Sadism ability. She's the most dangerous out of the 3 at high speeds because she'll have the most pink diamonds.

Rouge feels like a chump to me honestly - she has the highest number of white diamonds, which often results in her just getting wrecked in a couple turns without doing anything. If I go easy on her on purpose and miss patterns, let her get rolling on the overheat + unpredictable combo... it's still not enough. She can take my hearts easily at that point, but again - once I'm on the last heart I can outheal any damage she does easily, since the speed damage reduction is massive and overheat doesn't seem to boost it that much. Plus high speed means all your stamina passives are going nuts, so you have plenty - and once overheat breaks you're usually pushed down to slow speed where your stamina can be used on a strong heal. I was curious so I just kept fighting her over and over, even doing some fights where I just mash all one direction ignoring patterns, and... it feels impossible to lose to her unless you don't use the willpower heal.

She's the first enemy...
I originally wanted her to feel strong like the rest, but after all the response that the game's way too hard, I kept nerfing different parts of her. She used to have the largest Lust damage so that even if you didn't get the opposite direction, as long as you didn't match she would do good damage to you.

Well.. for now I'll keep her simple. The difficulty will gradually increase as you obtain skills and such in the final game so I can probably balance her out well.

You would honestly be surprised how difficult she can be to beat if you just buff her health though. Giving her time to setup her skills makes her dangerous. Hmm... Maybe she should have a healing ability... hmmm.. doesn't fit her personality. You've given me something to think about. Thanks.

I actually feel really safe at high speeds against everyone except vert, because the stamina passives and massive damage reduction. Merciless is amazing, and is the key reason vert has the power to actually down you.

I think Merciless as an ability works well with Vert.
With her other abilities she doesn't really seem like the person who would take the lead in sex. Add in that Merciless and you know she's a dom just like the rest.

Finally, on the publicity side - I do think a released game will get you attention. It's always possible to come back and give updates afterwards, or create sequels and future games that use the same systems.
Could also go the episodic route, like SHRIFT. Those episodes were actually pretty small, and only had a few enemies - but he was able to monetize and get feedback and build popularity through releasing them in bite-sized chunks like that. I do think if you go that route enemies will have to be a little more developed though or it won't really be enough meat to impress anybody - each enemy had a whole variety of scenes and animations in SHRIFT. For example, what if as you went through the game our three girls bleu, vert, and rouge had a couple repeat encounters with a different pose, art, and skills? Maybe a 4th girl for a chapter boss, and that could be enough for a modest price tag plus whatever you end up doing with the story and developmental systems, such as skills needing to be obtained and/or equipped.

SHRIFT actually had quite a bit of people following him on Pixiv thanks to his fan-animations of SMT demons. While working on his game I remember Zell actually helping him market. He also worked on his game while there were less erodevs working on male protags at the time.

I'm not sure I'd have the same reception with an episodic game as him. We'll most likely leave the ending a bit open to leave room for a sequel but we don't want to put out an "unfinished" game in fear of negative public perception on our FIRST title.

Yeah we're currently working on the boss. She's really cute and has a unique body. I have a few ideas of how to handle her uniquely too.
Currently what I can say is that she will have... actually don't want to spoil it

Anyways, I'm glad somewhere else out there finds the game to be a cakewalk. I think the difference in players is really just an understanding of the game systems. I really need to add a tutorial review in there. I also think players are extremely anxious about not being able to recover health on the overworld map and those fears are coming through as thoughts of the game being too difficult.
It's a good thing I added difficulty levels now that I think about it. It really is a necessity for these kinds of games.

OH!

Almost forgot. You mentioned being able to lose to the mob enemies. I also think that's valuable, but am curious about consecutive battles.

How many consecutive battles with Rouge do you think you can survive? Bleu? Vert?

 

[Aiolos1212]

Hmmm... You know what... I haven't touched the bonus damage with hearts value. It probably should be a bit higher hunh? Atm I can't lose to Bleu either, even if I spend a turn purposefully fucking up.
Weird thing though is that more skills don't innately make a unit stronger unless they apply states that last for a while. I think I should probably buff Heart Piercing Smile so you're less likely to use Calm when she uses her Sadism ability. She's the most dangerous out of the 3 at high speeds because she'll have the most pink diamonds.

I can see that yeah, more skills can water down their rotation and make them weaker - there is opportunity cost after all. I actually don't think she's the most dangerous at high speeds though (I vote for Vert with her skills up) - it's true that you'll miss the most, but the speed damage reduction is very harsh, so even if you miss 12 arrows in a row if you watch your willpower it'll drop surprisingly little overall, and then the high speed stamina passives will allow you to easily heal that and more. Maybe that's the problem - high speed healing is still too effective, so it needs to scale down with speed even harsher (or be unusable passed a certain speed), requiring you to slow down before healing? That actually might fix rouge too, since overheat would spontaneously disable your healing and you'd have to break it to escape.

She's the first enemy...
I originally wanted her to feel strong like the rest, but after all the response that the game's way too hard, I kept nerfing different parts of her. She used to have the largest Lust damage so that even if you didn't get the opposite direction, as long as you didn't match she would do good damage to you.

Well.. for now I'll keep her simple. The difficulty will gradually increase as you obtain skills and such in the final game so I can probably balance her out well.

Fair enough. I was thinking of them all as being around the same level since the demo just drops you in, but her being the first enemy makes sense. I like the idea of obtaining skills and such too - I could see her being more balanced if you didn't have the large suite of skills and passives that you do in the demo. It's also kind of a neat thought if you needed to equip skills/passives and could only have a certain amount, so you had to choose a playstyle... well, I look forward to seeing what you've got planned on that front, I'm sure it'll be good. It's a bit of a shame I didn't get to try rouge before getting nerfed. That's not from the original first demo that was posted here, right?

I think Merciless as an ability works well with Vert.
With her other abilities she doesn't really seem like the person who would take the lead in sex. Add in that Merciless and you know she's a dom just like the rest.

I agree, it's a perfect fit for her and I like it a lot.

Fair enough on the episodic point. A solid finished product will gather more attention, I agree. I'd just be sad if you moved on from such a great concept and game systems too quickly. Looking forwards to the boss!

About the consecutive battles - I actually don't think that's a problem at all. I've actually booted up both demos quite a lot, since I wanted to test my own feedback to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass, and I always clear out the whole map (nine consecutive battles) with no problem at all except sometimes on Vert in the recent demo - and even that isn't from getting worn down so much as just she's a little risky, and the more times you fight her in a row the higher odds of something going south. Not to mention I have a bad habit of going slightly easy since she's my favorite. As far as bleu and rouge go I could fight an infinite number of them in a row without saving no problem. You can always heal up in the first couple turns when the speed is low anyway - losing willpower over a number of battles and getting worn down isn't an issue.

Unless you're talking about like... consecutive battles without saving, and the balance of how that would work if each enemy was challenging and possible to lose to on their own - so not a resource management issue as much as a question of if it would be frustrating for players to fight 5 verts in a row without a save point, and then lose to the fifth one and have to reload. As far this goes, I found that most games of this type where every individual encounter could potentially be difficult/a loss, tend to allow saving anywhere, so you can save after every battle and it doesn't feel bad to lose - actually, losing is another one of the draws of the game, since it's a reverse rape game. Enemies are also avoidable on the map, so even if it was a save point system I don't think it would be a big deal as long as they were reasonably plentiful.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Maybe that's the problem - high speed healing is still too effective, so it needs to scale down with speed even harsher (or be unusable passed a certain speed), requiring you to slow down before healing?

Ah that's a good point.
Regarding willpower drop though, I actually want most of the damage to come from the ejaculations, so I'm fine with willpower damage being so low at the moment.

That's not from the original first demo that was posted here, right?

Yes

Regarding consecutive battles, you've made it clear to me that Psych up is a bit too powerful at the moment so it needs to be nerfed.
I usually like interesting defensive playstyles and my bias may have made the defensive skills too powerful

I'll be updating the demo today with balance changes.

 

[TheUnsaid]

OK.

So bad news. Sex Machine was targeted by Patreon as being bad for business.
Here's the exact wording for the letter we got.

Spoiler

My name is Geoffrey and I'll be taking over this ticket while Cisco is out of the office.

Because the game Sex Machine featured on your page has a central theme of sexual violence, it cannot be funded on Patreon. I ask that you remove all posts and links related to this game. You are welcome to fund a different game on Patreon as long as it fits within our Community Guidelines.

You also have the option to update your game to fit within our guidelines, however, I ask that all links to the current version of the game be removed while you complete the updates.

Please let me know which option works best for you. If you have any questions please feel free to email me.

Even through the amount we got from Patreon (30 something dollars) was so small... we were still targeted. Our game's not even that extreme.
We created a

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account as a western alternative if Fantia and Ci-En are not possible for you guys to support us on.

I've asked Uramomo to take down the Patreon, and he agrees it's the best option we have right now.

 

[Fenko_I]

Woah that's extremely unreasonable, how is Sex Machine a problem for them??
I'm a patreon to a bunch of other games that are way more violent in a sexual way and they're fine and allowed to still be there so what the heck?

I swear patreon can be so dumb sometimes..

 

[CountMoxi]

Honestly I don't think you'd have to change much to get this okayed by Patreon after playing the game for a bit. It's a battle fuck RPG sure , but it's pretty on par with other hentai games on Patreon. It's actually pretty more "light hearted" imo, considering other options. But yeah I think this is definitely something you could fight for. I'd recommend removing the word "Rape" though in both the game and on the Patreon page since that's a huge red flag from Patreon. Then briefly establishing that sex is how people solve conflicts in this world or something like that, that's usually enough. If I were to guess, that's probably why the page was stricken in the first place, since I'd assume they just have a mass scan for words like that. But overall, I don't think you'd have to change much honestly. You might be able to ask them specifically what needs to be changed, but a lot of times that can be a crap shoot from what I heard, so try the above first, and then ask if they still have issues with it.

But even if the game hadn't taken off yet, I think people would be interested in supporting this game, it's very unique and charming. So don't give up on your Patreon. It's much more known than Subscribestar, and it's easier to manage from what I've heard too. So it's going to be better for you in the long run.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Honestly I don't think you'd have to change much to get this okayed by Patreon after playing the game for a bit. It's a battle fuck RPG sure , but it's pretty on par with other hentai games on Patreon. It's actually pretty more "light hearted" imo, considering other options. But yeah I think this is definitely something you could fight for. I'd recommend removing the word "Rape" though in both the game and on the Patreon page since that's a huge red flag from Patreon. Then briefly establishing that sex is how people solve conflicts in this world or something like that, that's usually enough. If I were to guess, that's probably why the page was stricken in the first place, since I'd assume they just have a mass scan for words like that. But overall, I don't think you'd have to change much honestly. You might be able to ask them specifically what needs to be changed, but a lot of times that can be a crap shoot from what I heard, so try the above first, and then ask if they still have issues with it.

But even if the game hadn't taken off yet, I think people would be interested in supporting this game, it's very unique and charming. So don't give up on your Patreon. It's much more known than Subscribestar, and it's easier to manage from what I've heard too. So it's going to be better for you in the long run.

I'd also rather not give up on Patreon but that was our second message from the Patreon reps.

Uramomo messed up with his language because he doesn't understand how Patreon works, and got us into trouble accidentally. I don't really fault him, but we now have Patreon's attention whether we want it or not. The message before was pretty direct about not wanting us on the platform. I'm not the manager of the patreon. It's uramomo's account and he's just super spooked. Don't want to push him into anything he's uncomfortable with.

Either way... we're just more committed to finishing the game as quickly as possible now.

 

[CountMoxi]

I'd also rather not give up on Patreon but that was our second message from the Patreon reps.

Uramomo messed up with his language because he doesn't understand how Patreon works, and got us into trouble accidentally. I don't really fault him, but we now have Patreon's attention whether we want it or not. The message before was pretty direct about not wanting us on the platform. I'm not the manager of the patreon. It's uramomo's account and he's just super spooked. Don't want to push him into anything he's uncomfortable with.

Either way... we're just more committed to finishing the game as quickly as possible now.

Ah I see. I can imagine it would be difficult to manage the page with the language barrier. I don't exactly know the working relationship between you two, but it'd probably be best if you or a native English speaker handled it, just to avoid any future problems. But once again I don't see anything in your game that wouldn't allow you to be on the platform, besides using "rape". so I think it's still worth pursuing. From what I've heard in the past, Patreon doesn't really like dealing with most erotic stuff ( especially if they aren't making a ton of money for them) and can come off as trying to muscle you off the platform. But it's still a good way to fund your project from the community, so don't let them push you around. Worst case is the account gets shut down, which in a sense has already happened.

Also, I know Uramomo does a lot of pixel art, so you could switch the Patreon to funding that, and then have a discord integrated with the Patreon where the game is distributed. I know a lot of devs that have gone that route when Patreon threatened to shut them down, and it seems to be a decent enough of a work around.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Ah I see. I can imagine it would be difficult to manage the page with the language barrier. I don't exactly know the working relationship between you two, but it'd probably be best if you or a native English speaker handled it, just to avoid any future problems. But once again I don't see anything in your game that wouldn't allow you to be on the platform, besides using "rape". so I think it's still worth pursuing. From what I've heard in the past, Patreon doesn't really like dealing with most erotic stuff ( especially if they aren't making a ton of money for them) and can come off as trying to muscle you off the platform. But it's still a good way to fund your project from the community, so don't let them push you around. Worst case is the account gets shut down, which in a sense has already happened.

Also, I know Uramomo does a lot of pixel art, so you could switch the Patreon to funding that, and then have a discord integrated with the Patreon where the game is distributed. I know a lot of devs that have gone that route when Patreon threatened to shut them down, and it seems to be a decent enough of a work around.

That's an interesting work-around. Honestly we'd just prefer to work on the game instead of spending time raising funds. We don't have much exposure to make spending excess time on crowdfunding worth it. Uramomo is a new artist.

 

[eatthemuffin]

So to start, I just want to say I like the game idea. It's pretty unique and interesting, and the art is definitely really strong.

As far as feedback goes, I think you may be looking at the speed issue in the wrong way. In my experience, I can't get anything done when I get to higher speeds. Part of the reason, I think, has to do with the increase in the number of pink diamonds with the speed. When your speed gets too high, it almost renders any learning of the enemy's patterns pointless. If I have two white diamonds representing the enemy's pattern, which I eventually figure out, but then eight diamonds that are totally random every time, then the pattern I learned just got a whole lot less significant. On top of that, the entry goes by so quickly that I barely have time to think about the pattern in the first place unless I already have it figured out.

So yeah, at the slowest speeds the fights are pretty easy. But with both RNG diamonds increasing and entry time decreasing with each level of speed, difficulty climbs exponentially as speed increases. With those two factors combined, it's no wonder that decreasing speed is the easiest way to get through. What might be best is to find somewhere closer to the middle, so it doesn't feel as easy as it does currently at lowest speed but not as hard as it does on the highest speed.

The other thing that comes to mind is how long each fight takes to complete and what that means for the overall pacing of the full game. Currently fights are pretty lengthy compared to a standard RPG, which isn't a terrible thing if that's what you want to go for. But if you do want fights to last a while, I would advise taking into consideration how many fights you want people to wade through in between checkpoints/story points in the full game. If you're just looking to progress in the game, sometimes having too many encounters - especially longish encounters - can be kind of a drag.

On that note, I would also consider how much the player is punished for losing. It sounds like you want regular enemies to continue being a threat as you proceed through an area, which isn't a bad thing in itself. But if it is part of the design that sometimes you struggle and sometimes losses will happen, then that could become frustrating for players. This is especially true if an area takes a long time to get through since fights take so long.

 

[TheUnsaid]

If I have two white diamonds representing the enemy's pattern, which I eventually figure out, but then eight diamonds that are totally random every time, then the pattern I learned just got a whole lot less significant. On top of that, the entry goes by so quickly that I barely have time to think about the pattern in the first place unless I already have it figured out.

EXACTLY!

difficulty climbs exponentially as speed increases. With those two factors combined, it's no wonder that decreasing speed is the easiest way to get through.

I think it makes sense, that you're at more of a disadvantage at high speeds. Keeping the speed low shouldn't be extremely easy though.
Also, Vert is much harder to beat at low speeds because she'll heal a large amount. High speeds is dangerous too because Merciless will get you.

It sounds like you want regular enemies to continue being a threat as you proceed through an area, which isn't a bad thing in itself. But if it is part of the design that sometimes you struggle and sometimes losses will happen, then that could become frustrating for players. This is especially true if an area takes a long time to get through since fights take so long.

Yeah I'm fine with that since the game won't be too long.

To be honest, I really appreciate you taking the time with the game and understanding its systems. I'm getting a lot of mixed feelings about the game's difficulty to the point that some are asking I completely change the system to be more reactionary based. I think I'll go with my gut regarding difficulty, but I'll definitely add a tutorial review for players who are more lost.

 

[Someone92]

Okay, I hardly managed to beat one of the girls before, but after reading this thread it becomes fairly easy.
Do you regain your health / hearts after each fight? It seems I'm down to one heart against one enemy, and start with one heart against the next one, but when I lose my "last" heart I'm at two hearts again.

One suggestions regarding the diamonds is to increase the number of diamonds based on speed, and replacing white with pink ones depending on how close you are to orgasm. As pink diamonds are meant to represent that you are unable to properly react to your opponent's movements it might make more sense.
In addition or as an alternative one white diamond is replaced with a pink one if you are below 66% and one more if you are below 33% willpower. It against represents that you are too exhausted to properly respond to your opponent's movements. Also, I like it if a game gets progressively more difficult the closer you are to defeat.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Okay, I hardly managed to beat one of the girls before, but after reading this thread it becomes fairly easy.
Do you regain your health / hearts after each fight? It seems I'm down to one heart against one enemy, and start with one heart against the next one, but when I lose my "last" heart I'm at two hearts again.

One suggestions regarding the diamonds is to increase the number of diamonds based on speed, and replacing white with pink ones depending on how close you are to orgasm. As pink diamonds are meant to represent that you are unable to properly react to your opponent's movements it might make more sense.
In addition or as an alternative one white diamond is replaced with a pink one if you are below 66% and one more if you are below 33% willpower. It against represents that you are too exhausted to properly respond to your opponent's movements. Also, I like it if a game gets progressively more difficult the closer you are to defeat.

Mind if I asked what confused you initially and what helped you get past the confusion hump?

The speed is the number of diamonds. Speed of 5 = 5 diamonds.
Replacing white with pink depending on how close you are to orgasm sounds like a cool ability I can give an enemy. I won't make it an innate aspect of the battle system though.

Replacing white diamonds with pink diamonds is a bit dangerous because it punishes the player harder for failing. I think games should allow you to come back from your failures instead of punishing you too severely for messing up.

The heart system was added in to basically be a comeback system actually. You gain defenses the more hearts you have but the creampie takes more willpower. In the final version of the game, I want each successive fight to wear you down to the point that you could lose to a normal enemy, so I'll be balancing around that kind of challenge. Especially if you're unlucky when it comes to Pink diamonds and stamina.