[2/6] [Abandoned] The Comprehensive Patreon List

[B00marrows]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

a possible outcome is that game creators will be much more wary,

Thats exactly what i am saying.

no developer is going to want this to happen to them so there contracts are going to be tight.

My wording may be bad as i am a complete fucking moron but if i can follow what im saying it shouldnt be hard for others to follow...

 

[meh65]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

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[censuur]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

I wonder if the patreons can sue S-Purple and HBomb in any way... i mean they basically gave money for nothing. the games gone now, it doesn't exist...

Not a chance in hell. Patreon donations (and yes, that's essentially what they are) are not payment for product or service, it's payment in support of the work an author performs with no guarantee on returns, it's extremely attractive and lucrative for scams and con-men because the threat of legal retribution is non-existent.

Now see if this Hbomb lad actually was as decent of a sort as he's trying to sell himself for he'd return every dime he has left in his pocket from Patreon donations, even if the claim that Spurple took half of what they stashed is true that still leaves a large sum to return to people for work you're never planning to do, but ultimately he is under absolutely no obligation to return anything (actually there might be something possible for last month's payment as it's clear he no longer intends to do any kind of work on the project he's been paid to work on.)

Still, somehow I doubt people are going to get refunded on this one, but I'll be glad to be proven wrong here.

 

[Perfeccia Ars]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

You dont seem to follow...
SPurple was in probably one of the most comfortable/well of places an artist can be, more than enough money flowing in and almost no pressure for increased speed... yet for SOME REASON they fucked that whole sweet deal up! Why in gods name would you throw that away?
If an artist that was that well off will fuck up a project for no reason, why would any developer want to hire an artist and give them any form of comfort?
Its already hard and dangerous enough to get an artist to work on a game but if this can happen where not even that much money can keep an artist "safe" to work with, why would anyone bother?

As far as I can tell from his actions it kind of looks like he doesn't like the management but wants to take over the project, the concept, the assets and the patrons.

Think about it, the assets are with S-purple and the style is his so it is very unlikely that H-bomb will find someone that can imitate that style so he's going to lose that fight, and if he doesn't find an artist then he will need a new one and redraw everything, again. S-purple is making a new game with the assets, that means that patrons that put money in BS will have to follow S-purple's new work if they want to delude themselves that something is going to come from those 40k$ a month that they supported for who knows how many years.

As for the delicious contract/money you were talking about. This kind of thing from an artist is... not weird sadly. As an artist myself working on a few games around here and AGDG I've seen some shitty behavior and the main reason why programmers hate artist is exactly this, though normally the ones targetted are small indie devs.

Contracting artists is a pain and a good number of them will either:

A- Overprice their work for a "licence" if you're one of the few devs that try to cover their ass.

B- Try to dodge the talk about contract and take the assets hostage if they get tired of the project or you. This usually happens halfway through development or when it's at it's peak of fame. Common on AGDGs and RPGM forums.

 

[meh65]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

As far as I can tell from his actions it kind of looks like he doesn't like the management but wants to take over the project, the concept, the assets and the patrons.

Think about it, the assets are with S-purple and the style is his so it is very unlikely that H-bomb will find someone that can imitate that style so he's going to lose that fight, and if he doesn't find an artist then he will need a new one and redraw everything, again. S-purple is making a new game with the assets, that means that patrons that put money in BS will have to follow S-purple's new work if they want to delude themselves that something is going to come from those 40k$ a month that they supported for who knows how many years.

As for the delicious contract/money you were talking about. This kind of thing from an artist is... not weird sadly. As an artist myself working on a few games around here and AGDG I've seen some shitty behavior and the main reason why programmers hate artist is exactly this, though normally the ones targetted are small indie devs.

Contracting artists is a pain and a good number of them will either:

A- Overprice their work for a "licence" if you're one of the few devs that try to cover their ass.

B- Try to dodge the talk about contract and take the assets hostage if they get tired of the project or you. This usually happens halfway through development or when it's at it's peak of fame. Common on AGDGs and RPGM forums.

Welcome to power/greed/what have you, it is usually too enticing to pass up if attainable. Its no surprise whatsoever. If you have two people who depend on one another to create something, and one of them learns to do what they needed the other for...of course they will dick the other one over.

Its just how people work. Sorry. This is why you see a lot of HRPG games, because its easy to make games with that as an artist. Just saying.

 

[B00marrows]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

Not a chance in hell. Patreon donations (and yes, that's essentially what they are) are not payment for product or service, it's payment in support of the work an author performs with no guarantee on returns, it's extremely attractive and lucrative for scams and con-men because the threat of legal retribution is non-existent.

Now see if this Hbomb lad actually was as decent of a sort as he's trying to sell himself for he'd return every dime he has left in his pocket from Patreon donations, even if the claim that Spurple took half of what they stashed is true that still leaves a large sum to return to people for work you're never planning to do, but ultimately he is under absolutely no obligation to return anything (actually there might be something possible for last month's payment as it's clear he no longer intends to do any kind of work on the project he's been paid to work on.)

Still, somehow I doubt people are going to get refunded on this one, but I'll be glad to be proven wrong here.

Yeah thought so.

He stopped working on the project a while back, did a bunch of art for another game in secret than ripped the rug out from under everyone. No matter what they say, there still a complete cunt.

As far as I can tell from his actions it kind of looks like he doesn't like the management but wants to take over the project, the concept, the assets and the patrons.

Think about it, the assets are with S-purple and the style is his so it is very unlikely that H-bomb will find someone that can imitate that style so he's going to lose that fight, and if he doesn't find an artist then he will need a new one and redraw everything, again. S-purple is making a new game with the assets, that means that patrons that put money in BS will have to follow S-purple's new work if they want to delude themselves that something is going to come from those 40k$ a month that they supported for who knows how many years.

As for the delicious contract/money you were talking about. This kind of thing from an artist is... not weird sadly. As an artist myself working on a few games around here and AGDG I've seen some shitty behavior and the main reason why programmers hate artist is exactly this, though normally the ones targetted are small indie devs.

So it is as i thought. Its both good and bad to hear that from you.

No matter what they try to say, they are still in the wrong. If theres something you dont like you dont stick around for THIS LONG accepting all the money before doing anything and you dont tear your patreons game to shreads in the process, that just shows you dont care and never will.

Who says this dickhead wont do the same to there next game? 2 years down the line delete the games existance, what kinda of an idiot will go to there next patreon?

Contracting artists is a pain and a good number of them will either:

A- Overprice their work for a "licence" if you're one of the few devs that try to cover their ass.

B- Try to dodge the talk about contract and take the assets hostage if they get tired of the project or you. This usually happens halfway through development or when it's at it's peak of fame. Common on AGDGs and RPGM forums.

Exactly. Now you have the aditional issue of "not even a golden contract and tons of money can keep an artist in check, just look at breeding season!"

Welcome to power/greed/what have you, it is usually too enticing to pass up if attainable. Its no surprise whatsoever. If you have two people who depend on one another to create something, and one of them learns to do what they needed the other for...of course they will dick the other one over.

Its just how people work. Sorry. This is why you see a lot of HRPG games, because its easy to make games with that as an artist. Just saying.

Yep...

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

For everyone freaking out... you all do realize you're attributing personality traits to an entire swath of people with a specific skill, right?

There are countless artists who would never pull the same thing that went on here, and countless programmers who are more competent at leading a project, and countless teams who actually respect one another and would not just attempt to screw one another over ASAP because it makes MORE business sense to actually be in good graces with people, than to just burn bridges and screw them over.

 

[azurezero]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

For everyone freaking out... you all do realize you're attributing personality traits to an entire swath of people with a specific skill, right?

There are countless artists who would never pull the same thing that went on here, and countless programmers who are more competent at leading a project, and countless teams who actually respect one another and would not just attempt to screw one another over ASAP because it makes MORE business sense to actually be in good graces with people, than to just burn bridges and screw them over.

Yeah, One of my most popular games was a commission that still hasn't been paid for fully, but i'm not mad in the slightest, it was honestly a breath of fresh air making SD quest (about staying in good graces)

I wish my current game was a commission... it would take some pressure off me to make decisions...

 

[Perfeccia Ars]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

For everyone freaking out... you all do realize you're attributing personality traits to an entire swath of people with a specific skill, right?

There are countless artists who would never pull the same thing that went on here, and countless programmers who are more competent at leading a project, and countless teams who actually respect one another and would not just attempt to screw one another over ASAP because it makes MORE business sense to actually be in good graces with people, than to just burn bridges and screw them over.

You're totally right, but that doesn't mean the topic at hand should be ignored. I wasn't trying to sound as if this is the rule instead of the exception, it was more that people should know why and how often this kind of stuff happens.

Just my two cents based on my experiences and what I've seen. Since there are a good numbers of devs around here I thought it would be good to mention it because while the number of artists that do this is a minority it is still a danger that some devs might run into when making teams. Not everyone has a dream team from the start.

Anyway sorry if I sounded like I was freaking out and generalizing the group, wasn't my intention.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

You're totally right, but that doesn't mean the topic at hand should be ignored. I wasn't trying to sound as if this is the rule instead of the exception, it was more that people should know why and how often this kind of stuff happens.

Just my two cents based on my experiences and what I've seen. Since there are a good numbers of devs around here I thought it would be good to mention it because while the number of artists that do this is a minority it is still a danger that some devs might run into when making teams. Not everyone has a dream team from the start.

Anyway sorry if I sounded like I was freaking out and generalizing the group, wasn't my intention.

Oh no, I know first hand what it's like to have artists have to drop out of projects for whatever reason; I've had it happen to me countless times, but I finally found reliable artists with the people I've been working on games with, so yeah

 

[B00marrows]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

For everyone freaking out... you all do realize you're attributing personality traits to an entire swath of people with a specific skill, right?

There are countless artists who would never pull the same thing that went on here, and countless programmers who are more competent at leading a project, and countless teams who actually respect one another and would not just attempt to screw one another over ASAP because it makes MORE business sense to actually be in good graces with people, than to just burn bridges and screw them over.

I can generalize all i want when im theorising how much this might damage the already fragile western adult games market.
The idea of patreon/kickstarted stuff dying is bad, no exception.

With how big it was(it was the most funded right?) and the state it has been left in (the game no longer exists)... The only good side is that the overfunded milking has stopped... but i feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

Im coming from the perspective of a non creator, i have yet to create a game(i may have been close a few times) but the point stands... if even money cant keep them happy why should i bother funding them?

This is too big to ignore..

 

[Zepheral]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

I can generalize all i want when im theorising how much this might damage the already fragile western adult games market.
The idea of patreon/kickstarted stuff dying is bad, no exception.

With how big it was(it was the most funded right?) and the state it has been left in (the game no longer exists)... The only good side is that the overfunded milking has stopped... but i feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

Im coming from the perspective of a non creator, i have yet to create a game(i may have been close a few times) but the point stands... if even money cant keep them happy why should i bother funding them?

This is too big to ignore..

Like 42 k per month, I should know cause I was patreon at the time. lol, Now it's removed from my list like it never happened.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

if even money cant keep them happy why should i bother funding them?

Because human beings aren't all the same mentality for the entire species; not everyone will quit a project even when being paid handsomely, not everyone will stay on if paid a lot, not everyone will quit if not paid a lot of money, and not everyone will stay on if not paid enough.

 

[azurezero]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

Because human beings aren't all the same mentality for the entire species; not everyone will quit a project even when being paid handsomely, not everyone will stay on if paid a lot, not everyone will quit if not paid a lot of money, and not everyone will stay on if not paid enough.

according to studies, paying them just enough that they dont need to think about money is best for motivation, when youre dealing with creative work anyway, for grindy jobs the more money the better

 

[B00marrows]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

Because human beings aren't all the same mentality for the entire species; not everyone will quit a project even when being paid handsomely, not everyone will stay on if paid a lot, not everyone will quit if not paid a lot of money, and not everyone will stay on if not paid enough.

again, you missed the point.
Yes i get it that not everyone is the same but almost 10,000 people (estimated) just got fucked over by 1 cunt(again estimated?) who expects people to suddenly fund their next project.

People generalise, its naturel. I have a feeling that some of those people are not going to want to fund anymore..

 

[Zepheral]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

again, you missed the point.
Yes i get it that not everyone is the same but almost 10,000 people (estimated) just got fucked over by 1 cunt(again estimated?) who expects people to suddenly fund their next project.

People generalise, its naturel. I have a feeling that some of those people are not going to want to fund anymore..

Some people jumped ship, I stated it in a post (not this tread) that he's close to 1k a month already.

 

[censuur]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

Some people jumped ship, I stated it in a post (not this tread) that he's close to 1k a month already.

While no doubt there's a good chance it's just another iteration of the fact that fools and their money are easily parted, don't assume this is actually legit.

One of the first things in marketing is to make your product appealing by making it look like other people are buying it, pledging to yourself on Patreon to make your project look legitimate (people will think those that donate would have a reason to do it, many also might have never heard of Breeding Season) isn't completely far-fetched and could be a fairly lucrative investment.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

People generalise, its naturel. I have a feeling that some of those people are not going to want to fund anymore..

Being natural doesn't mean it's a good thing to do. Of course some people are not going to want to fund anymore, but western hentai games aren't going to suddenly die out from this; they existed before BS, and they'll exist after BS too.

 

[B00marrows]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

Being natural doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.

sceptisism/doubt will happen. its not good, but it happens.

western hentai games aren't going to suddenly die out from this

Who said that? Im saying its a setback, a dent.
~42K/month from ~10K people just went POOF in patreon/adult gaming. No matter how you think about it, its not good.
The news/story coverage wont help, "Sex Game Cancelled After Taking In Five Figures A Month On Patreon" for example...

Im not sure if its a good or WORSE things that some people...sheep followed the artist to there next game...

 

[meh65]

Re: [6/11] Comprehensive patreon list

For everyone freaking out... you all do realize you're attributing personality traits to an entire swath of people with a specific skill, right?

There are countless artists who would never pull the same thing that went on here, and countless programmers who are more competent at leading a project, and countless teams who actually respect one another and would not just attempt to screw one another over ASAP because it makes MORE business sense to actually be in good graces with people, than to just burn bridges and screw them over.

You are right. But the circumstances being as they are; this is literally not surprising at all. I have experienced and seen at least 3 instances personally that played out very similarly.

1) Person(s) starts something new or "for fun"
2) It quickly gains attention, they bring in help or a new partner to improve.
3) One or the other throws a coup because "they are more deserving"

Granted this is simplified hard. But the point is. Inexperienced people finding themselves with a bunch of money and or power, ALWAYS end up fucking it up without guidance.

If I dare compare, you can look at facebook as a good example of this kind of fuckery. For a less cynical and proper way to avoid that kind of fuckery I recommend the show "silicon valley". Seriously, we need to appreciate mike judge, the dude is good at talking about real stuff without being dark and gloomy. He does satire in a way that isn't cynical, that should be commended in today's world.

Either way, this whole "new ip blows up and makes greenhorns big, only for inner drama to destroy what they build", at this point its becoming a cliche.