A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides. (Ask questions here too.)

Jun 18, 2009
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#1
I'd like to give a huge praise to TentanariX and Pheonix Alugere for finishing their first game together, with one poor Adventurer captured as a sex slave (although more GO may still occur ;) ).

Also big praise to Xivvix and Pheonix Alugere for being near the end of the first game where it seems like the Adventurer will win.

I think the two sides of the system are both well represented and shown that the balance is fairly close once the boss fight comes about.

Edit: I totally didn't see Laughing Hyena and Archer had already finished as well, and we have our first Adventurer victor! Same as with a GO condition, feel free to RP out the aftermath of a dungeon, how the heroine returns victoriously and wrapping up into deciding either to keep adventuring or retiring, or whatever XD Now that the story is at it's end, it's just a quick conclusion and then off to another dungeon. I think that Archer has shown though that Encampments are a bit TOO strong. So I will be editing that down a bit ;)


I hope everyone is enjoying the system and finds that it's both balanced and easy to deal with, and I really hope everyone enjoys the shift in focus to RPing over stat-crunching at every turn.

Now that a few games are ending, I'm opening this thread as a suggestions thread.

Think something costs too much? Too little? Imbalanced?
Have ideas for a new challenge type?
Have suggestions for how to help impliment the multiple costs dungeons?
Want to help tweak how inventory items are going to work?

Anything you want to suggest or comment on, this is the thread for it. I'll be starting my own personal dungeons shortly as well, with the added bonus I'm going to try to demonstrate some of the flexibility of the system.
 
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Jan 13, 2010
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#2
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Well to be honest i think I didn't do so hot in making the spire. But I have to ask how one can get more stages out of their dungeons. Im very interested in the advanced rules for dungeon building but other then that I am hooked like hell on this game. Its awesome.

Anyway onto suggestions for more challenges possible for dungeon makers to throw at players maybe we could implicate more effects like poison, or other debilitations to the challenges should they fail. Like a secondary challenge that causes a poison or penalty to linger on the heroine for a while. Another idea was a stalker challenge where a monster can literally chase the heroine and harass her as she tries to clear the dungeon. Just a few thoughts.
 
OP
OP
K
Jun 18, 2009
761
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#3
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Anyway onto suggestions for more challenges possible for dungeon makers to throw at players maybe we could implicate more effects like poison, or other debilitations to the challenges should they fail. Like a secondary challenge that causes a poison or penalty to linger on the heroine for a while. Another idea was a stalker challenge where a monster can literally chase the heroine and harass her as she tries to clear the dungeon. Just a few thoughts.
Clever. I had thought of bonus items to give and curses possibly, but poisons slipped my mind entirely, and a stalker that adds unwanted difficulty and penalties... Beautiful idea.


As for your first point: The reason why I wanted to test this 6-stage dungeon was to consider scaling of levels, HP values, and difficulties before making longer dungeons, and before further customizing how challenges are built.

You've actually given me a wonderful slew of new ideas though.


The first addition is going to be added choices, so instead of 2 options, a 3rd option may exist for some stages. I've also got an idea for making dungeons longer. Since characters can't just leave and rest mid-dungeon, I'm thinking of just adding "potions". For every stage longer a dungeon is, the Adventurer gets a potion that recovers some amount. I'm going to review some of the end-game values and work on balance a bit before this is finalized though. A second variation may be a required between-stage resting point. Perhaps in a 10 stage dungeon, the heroine gets to rest after stage 5? ... It'll be worked on and balanced out.

Expect updates for the Advanced Dungeons (Gold/Mana/Work(Energy)) System to come about in not too long.
 
OP
OP
K
Jun 18, 2009
761
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#4
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I updated the rules a bit to better deal with Encampments and the Hidden trait. Dead Ends are now cheaper as well.

Encampments also restore less health to weakened heroines, after seeing how overpowered they were in our first dungeon to have many of them.

Changelog updated accordingly, good luck with your dungeons.

A more complete update with new challenges is going to be out as soon as I review a couple more dungeons for balance.
 
Jan 13, 2010
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#5
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Working on the second dungeon as well Kathy, which is the Pyramid of Ssen'thial. Hopefully it turns out as well as the Crystal Spire though hopefully it wont be beaten in one go. But thats the roll of the dice. :)
 

Host

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Mar 28, 2009
1,765
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#6
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Ideas (villain all):
Extra path: Instead of two paths, an extra is added. This aught to give points back to the villain, more than a typical trap’s worth, but not by too much. Stackable for a number of times, but there would need to be a limit. Unusable on endboss.

Single path: Aught to take points away from the villain, probably somewhat larger than typical trap’s worth. Exceptionally nasty if the villain makes an uber miniboss challenge in it, though at the cost of the rest of the dungeon. Unusable on endboss.

Long path: A path is given two primary challenges, one after another, with possible secondary challenges and extras and such as is normal for the game. The cost for a long path could be to increase the cost of the second encounter by a factor.

Second wind: A primary encounter has to be beaten (or suffered though, if not a miniboss,) twice before being passed. The secondary challenge should not activate for a failure on the second time, if there is a secondary challenge. On a miniboss, the secondary condition will not activate on any failures after the miniboss has been ‘beaten’ the first time. The cost of a second wind could be a factor of the original cost, but still less than the cost of remaking the challenge in a long path method.

Split path: The path splits, causing one path to lead to a different stage than the other, which in turn leads to another separate stage, potentially up to the sixth stage with a different boss. The number of points a villain gets for splitting the path should be a factor of how many split stages are created. There should definitely be a limit to the number of path splits, probably two most for a 6-stage dungeon.

Return to main path: Hand in hand with split path, this makes the secondary path return to the first path, lowering the number of secondary stages created.

Hidden path: A hidden path cannot be taken unless the player passes a stat roll (probably explore, and possibly even exclusively explore), with no damage for failure, but removing the choice to take the ‘hidden’ path on failure. the roll should be made as soon as the player enters the stage with the hidden path. Simulates all those secret paths that dungeons tend to have.

Phat Lewt: Adds a stat bonus to the heroine, gives bonus dungeon creating points to the Villain for including it. points gained should be related to how large the stat increase is. Also, items of stat restore (HP potion, mana potion, cold shower potion,…) for possible loot, as well as something like a ‘Wand of Dungeon Bypass’, attributed to a certain challenge in the dungeon, that allows the player to auto-beat that problem. The wand could have any number of charges, and each wand could be connected to any number of problems. (‘Wand’, of course, is just a name; it could be anything, say a key that allows the player to auto get through a door challenge down one path, or a skeleton key that can open all 'door' challenges in the dungeon... or a skeleton key that can open all doors in the dungeon, but disappears after opening it's first door.)
 
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OP
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Jun 18, 2009
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#7
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Host: Several of these were already in the works, but I approve of the creativity.

In particular, I like Long Path, Hidden Path, and Second Wind.

Extra Path and inventory (Lewt as you put it) were being balanced out.

Split Path I was avoiding making because the balance becomes difficult to keep at times, and at some point, splitting too far would be like making multiple dungeons.

Single Path I crossed off my idea list outright because I never wanted to take all choice away from an Adventurer. Even if it's just a bad choice or a worse choice, they still should have some sense of choosing an approach.
 

Host

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Mar 28, 2009
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#8
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I like Long Path, Hidden Path, and Second Wind.
Thanks. Second Wind came about due to my general uneasy feeling about enemy fights not having health, and moreso, about minibosses not having health; Long Path was my first attempt at allowing for a more-than-one-success-taking enemy, but I figured the cost of making two identical minibosses in a row would be quite debilitating, so I got the idea of giving it a discount for being the same encounter twice. It’s less costly because there’s no “actually, there’s a second trap that attacks a stat you’re weak in! kekeke” element to it, like there is with Long Path.

As for Hidden Path, well, as a player of Avernum, there is no way I could *not* come up with a ‘hidden path’ idea *grins*.

Single Path I crossed off my idea list outright because I never wanted to take all choice away from an Adventurer. Even if it's just a bad choice or a worse choice, they still should have some sense of choosing an approach.
Ah, unfortunate, I had intended to start my dungeon on single path… eh, there’s more ways to skin an encounter.

Split Path I was avoiding making because the balance becomes difficult to keep at times, and at some point, splitting too far would be like making multiple dungeons.
Point, but counterpoint: as it stands, the lack of change for going down different paths is rather ‘suspension of disbelief’ breaking, and exploring around different routes adds replayability (as well as just generally adding more depth – both plot-wise and layout-wise - to the dungeon). Furthermore, you can enforce an arbitrary limit of how much you’ll allow the dungeon to be split, and have it separated into two dungeons if that suits your preference.
 

Pheonix Alugere

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Nov 15, 2008
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#9
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Randomly causing the pc to lose clothing even on non-naughty challenges is fun.

In other news, I guess I need to come up with a third adventure pretty soon, so that I'll have another thing Kirika can deal with if Xivvix wants to go one past this one.
 
Jan 4, 2010
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#10
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I'm still a little fog-headed, and do need to re-structure some of the information given so I can look at it without getting confused, but I might just make a dungeon. =.=
 
Nov 10, 2008
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#11
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Hyena suggested things like poisons that could affect a character after a challenge. I was thinking that it could be like an extra addtion to a challenge (for some extra energy) that would give an increase to damage taken to a certain stat by 1 or 2 for the next 3 challenges. So if a character fails a challenge that has an aphrodisiac poison add-on, then for the next 3 rooms she is in, if she fails, she would take 2 extra lewd damage, in addition to any other damage she would normally take, even if the challenge didn't involve a naughty aspect. If she passes the later challenges though, she takes no damage.

And of course there could be a poison for each stat (toxic poison causes health damage, sleep poison causes stamina damage, etc). There could even be additional types of poison, like say, a sense-weaknening poison that gives all challenges the Hidden quality, but doesn't deal extra damage.
 
Mar 28, 2009
1,765
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#12
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

To add to that, poisons of ‘–skill’, with skill meaning the skill itself, not the HP-counter-esque stats that are usually depleted. Of course, a challenge using this ‘–skill poison’ should do no damage to the HP-counter stats, or to willpower. Or not… I’ll leave balancing it to you, I think.
 
Jan 13, 2010
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#13
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

So Kathy how is the sample dungeon coming along? Im eager to learn more on this.
 
OP
OP
K
Jun 18, 2009
761
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#14
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

So Kathy how is the sample dungeon coming along? Im eager to learn more on this.
Ah my apologize, RL is a huge distraction, as well as other RPs :p

I actually was considering scrapping the sample and just running one myself.
 
Jan 13, 2010
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#15
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Excellent idea. I like the idea of you runnign one yourself. Im sure players will jump at the chance to play that one.
 
Nov 9, 2008
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#16
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I was actually looking forward to both playing and running a dungeon for this :/...then writer block came and I ran dry on creativity fluids. May try running a "less" literate dungeon though.
 
Jan 13, 2010
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#17
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Well I have a monster gal dungeon in the works. any who want to join up, make a player or sign up an existing one. It will be a level 1 to 2 dungeon.
 

Archer

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Nov 24, 2009
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#18
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I will not let my archenemy go unopposed, I will decimate your legions once more! *Chaotic Good laugh*
 
Jan 13, 2010
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#19
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

I thought you retired Lisa anyway. :)
 

Archer

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Nov 24, 2009
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#20
Re: A little OOC and open suggestions for Both Sides.

Yes, but I have her lizard love child who will continue her brutal rampage of peace and justice.