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FruitSmoothie

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Well let me break down what I have a problem with then:

"expecting" people to believe it? no, i'm actually not doing that in the slightest, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. whether or not you think i have the ability to make this game a reality doesn't concern me.
"I have a long history with programming and game design." - You

"Through my lifelong love and study of gaming I've grown a pretty solid foundation on design; what makes a game fun, and how to achieve that holy matrimony between art, programming, and design that leads to a truly satisfying gaming experience." - You

Where can I see your solid foundation of game design and how you're capable of creating a truly satisfying gaming experience? Talk. I didn't put words in your mouth, it's right there. So you know where that "Everybody seems to think that their ideas alone are worth being funded nowadays" is coming from.

My post otherwise was quite friendly and I even tried to add in some helpful information, but of course that was disregarded so you could play the victim. It's good to know how to deal with criticism.

P.S: You couldn't force people to donate even if you wanted to, lol.
 
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Yes

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I don't wanna contribute to a huge flaming session but he does have experience in programming and game making etc. and he's got a blog if you wanna trawl through his history of how his previous project turned out.

Besides he never said that he expects people to support him because of this experience, it's your prerogative to whether to wish to help or not... that was your inference.
 

FruitSmoothie

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I don't wanna contribute to a huge flaming session but he does have experience in programming and game making etc. and he's got a blog if you wanna trawl through his history of how his previous project turned out.

Besides he never said that he expects people to support him because of this experience, it's your prerogative to whether to wish to help or not... that was your inference.
Wasn't meant to be flaming session, you're not helping by exaggerating it. I was pretty clear about most of my post being my opinion, the one line I made as a general shot at how some people seem to be exploiting crowdfunding is what he focused on, not my problem. I didn't even directly say that I believed he was doing that, if you're going to say that he never directly said that he expects people to support him because of his experience.

There were plenty of lines of "proper" or "fair" criticism that he played down/ignored so he could play the victim. A lot easier than answering any of my criticisms properly.

I did trawl through his blog, I didn't see anything worth the self praise he gave himself.

That's right, he didn't directly say he expects us to support him because of his experience, he just expects us to believe he's a great game designer because of it.
 
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Anon42

Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Well let me break down what I have a problem with then:



"I have a long history with programming and game design." - You

"Through my lifelong love and study of gaming I've grown a pretty solid foundation on design; what makes a game fun, and how to achieve that holy matrimony between art, programming, and design that leads to a truly satisfying gaming experience." - You

Where can I see your solid foundation of game design and how you're capable of creating a truly satisfying gaming experience? Talk. I didn't put words in your mouth, it's right there. So you know where that "Everybody seems to think that their ideas alone are worth being funded nowadays" is coming from.

My post otherwise was quite friendly and I even tried to add in some helpful information, but of course that was disregarded so you could play the victim. It's good to know how to deal with criticism.

P.S: You couldn't force people to donate even if you wanted to, lol.
as a matter of fact, you were shoving words into my mouth. where did i say you need to believe in me because i have that experience? oh, that's right.. i didn't.

allow me to clarify further. i stated that i've been studying it for a long time, and i have. i never once said "believe me because i said so", because i never expected people to think i'm great at this without me even showing anything. i'm fully intending on proving that through my work, and so far i believe i have. my programming is solid and bug free, i can obviously sprite worth a damn, and if you've paid any attention to the topic so far, i'm sure you'll notice that i have a good grasp on game design principles. i'm not telling people to believe me off of a couple of words, i showed them what i was about before i even started thinking about donations.

i never said i have professional experience, nor did i say i have completed projects. if you think those are the only marks of skill, then think whatever you want about me, i really don't give a damn. i'm getting fucking tired of the people on this forum shoving crap into my mouth and making me out to be the bad guy. i never insinuated you should believe a word i said just because i say so, i never forced anyone to be interested in this project, and for god's sake i never made anyone donate. all of those things were decisions people have made off of their opinions of me and my work. if you don't think there's enough material here to prove i can design a solid game, then do whatever the hell you want, but don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters. some people actually like the way this is shaping up and if they want to donate to it, that's their choice to make.

god damn man, it's not a kickstarter. patreon campaigns can go on forever, and the amount of money they make is significantly lower because of it. there are so many people who have a patreon with, like, two or three patrons each donating a dollar to them. i'm not telling people to give me hundreds of their hard-earned dollars in one fell swoop so i make them pixel porn, i'm giving them an option that lets them support a project they like and get some rewards and creative input in the process, and it's up to them whether or not they use it. i can't even fathom how on god's green earth that makes me a bad person just because i didn't wait longer to set it up.


EDIT: i'd appreciate it if this argument could just be dropped. there's no point to it whatsoever.

to clarify, i "ignored" your "proper" or "fair" criticisms/advice because they're things i have no interest in, or they don't really have any relevance. i don't want to commision sprite sex, and i don't feel the need to collaborate with someone JUST because they're more experienced than i am. the beauty of patreon is that i DON'T have to have a name for myself first like you're implying. the campaign can sit there empty for months while i keep working, and when i've shown enough to get someone interested, they can hop in and donate if they want. you're treating it like i'm shoving it down people's throats and that's simply not true. i don't expect people to believe a thing i say without proof to back it up, and whether or not i have enough to show it is completely up to the individual. your post didn't come across as opinion to me, and maybe that's my fault, but i don't think it really matters at this point. nothing can be gained from continuing this.
 
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HentaiProdigy

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I don't want to join in on the discussion, so I won't mention much of it other than say that it's a pretty darn moot one.

But I would like to pose a followup question to your patreon idea:
The idea is to have donators/pledgers/patreons have access to update posts, idea sharing, development streams and demos, right? Does that also mean that if I don't donate, I won't get any of it? Or will I just simply get them all farther apart than if I donated?

I'm curious about this project, and I definitely think it shows potential, but I myself am not ready to donate, nor do I really have the cash to do so. I'm just wondering if that cuts me out of all progress updates, demos, streams and so on.
 

FruitSmoothie

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

as a matter of fact, you were shoving words into my mouth. where did i say you need to believe in me because i have that experience? oh, that's right.. i didn't.

allow me to clarify further. i stated that i've been studying it for a long time, and i have. i never once said "believe me because i said so", because i never expected people to think i'm great at this without me even showing anything. i'm fully intending on proving that through my work, and so far i believe i have. my programming is solid and bug free, i can obviously sprite worth a damn, and if you've paid any attention to the topic so far, i'm sure you'll notice that i have a good grasp on game design principles. i'm not telling people to believe me off of a couple of words, i showed them what i was about before i even started thinking about donations.

i never said i have professional experience, nor did i say i have completed projects. if you think those are the only marks of skill, then think whatever you want about me, i really don't give a damn. i'm getting fucking tired of the people on this forum shoving crap into my mouth and making me out to be the bad guy. i never insinuated you should believe a word i said just because i say so, i never forced anyone to be interested in this project, and for god's sake i never made anyone donate. all of those things were decisions people have made off of their opinions of me and my work. if you don't think there's enough material here to prove i can design a solid game, then do whatever the hell you want, but don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters. some people actually like the way this is shaping up and if they want to donate to it, that's their choice to make.

god damn man, it's not a kickstarter. patreon campaigns can go on forever, and the amount of money they make is significantly lower because of it. there are so many people who have a patreon with, like, two or three patrons each donating a dollar to them. i'm not telling people to give me hundreds of their hard-earned dollars in one fell swoop so i make them pixel porn, i'm giving them an option that lets them support a project they like and get some rewards and creative input in the process, and it's up to them whether or not they use it. i can't even fathom how on god's green earth that makes me a bad person just because i didn't wait longer to set it up.
You're the one making this a bigger deal than it ever needed to be. You say you don't care about my opinion and then get defensive about it? All you had to say was "I'm sorry you feel that way", ignore my post, or try to actually address the issues I mentioned professionally (The last option obviously being best in my opinion). I said that I didn't see a reason to donate, I said that I didn't see any proof that you were a capable game designer. If people want to agree or disagree with me, that's up to them. You're trying to chastise me for putting words in your mouth and you're doing it 3 times over to me what I ever could have done to you, lol.

In short, calm down. I didn't even say/insinuate half the shit you're talking about, where the fuck does that calling you a bad guy come from? I don't fucking know you :p Where did I say you were claiming to force anybody to do anything? I already said that you can't force people to do anything, I mean you literally physically cannot, it's impossible. Why do you have an entire paragraph screaming at me about that? :p When did I say that my opinion is the only one that matters? Having a negative opinion of you means that I can't share that opinion of mine if it isn't the "popular" opinion? I didn't force anybody to believe me. Look, I can say that too.


The exaggerated defensive victim card is really not flattering. x.x I think you handled this pretty poorly. Even if you don't agree with my opinion or are incapable of seeing my view, you could have just said "I plan to show more of my work soon, so hold tight". I guess the type of person who says:

"I've grown a pretty solid foundation on design; what makes a game fun, and how to achieve that holy matrimony between art, programming, and design that leads to a truly satisfying gaming experience." or "i can obviously sprite worth a damn, and if you've paid any attention to the topic so far, i'm sure you'll notice that i have a good grasp on game design principles"

Isn't the type to take be able to take criticism. I learned a new lesson today.
 
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Anon42

Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I don't want to join in on the discussion, so I won't mention much of it other than say that it's a pretty darn moot one.

But I would like to pose a followup question to your patreon idea:
The idea is to have donators/pledgers/patreons have access to update posts, idea sharing, development streams and demos, right? Does that also mean that if I don't donate, I won't get any of it? Or will I just simply get them all farther apart than if I donated?

I'm curious about this project, and I definitely think it shows potential, but I myself am not ready to donate, nor do I really have the cash to do so. I'm just wondering if that cuts me out of all progress updates, demos, streams and so on.
if you don't donate, you aren't completely cut out. i think what i'll most likely do when it comes to prototypes/demos is to release the previous demo to the public once a newer version comes out. you're more than welcome to share ideas with me here on ULMF, or through my blog, or my email. as far as update posts and general information goes, i'm not sure how much of it will come to the public, but i don't plan on leaving non-patrons completely out of the loop on that. that's something i'm still thinking through though, so i can't give you any definitive answers yet.

i think the only thing you might miss out on completely is development livestreams. i can't really think of a way to make those available to the public without diminishing the reward of it on patreon, since the entire point of it is watching.. well, a live stream. can't really bring that to you guys later on, lol.

@Fruit - i'm sorry you feel that way. i plan to show more of my work soon, so hold tight.
 
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Slam Sector

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

In an effort to turn this thread away from Smoothie's weird passive-aggression - how did you go about getting the voice samples for this game? I always wondered that about the development of h-games. Did you actually get an actress to record them, did you sample them from an open source, or what?
 

barreytor

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

How often do you intend to do the patreon updates? Because it's the "pay-per-update" model, and well, that doesn't really have a defined timeframe.
 
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Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

In an effort to turn this thread away from Smoothie's weird passive-aggression - how did you go about getting the voice samples for this game? I always wondered that about the development of h-games. Did you actually get an actress to record them, did you sample them from an open source, or what?
that was actually something i was very curious about when i started too, lol. i ended up getting hold of a voice pack off of DLSite on the recommendation of Azurezero, another h-game maker here on ULMF. it's a purchased pack, but you don't have to give credit and you can do whatever you want with them. it came with 5 different voices, and i took the most fitting one and pitch shifted it a bit to fit Alicia's character better.

@barreytor - that's the main reason i wanted to do the pay-per-update model, actually, so there wasn't a defined timeframe. i don't want to be working on a schedule like that yet. i can't say for sure how often they'll be right now, but paid updates won't be more often than twice a month at the absolute max, and right now i'm planning on trying to get around once a month.

oh, one other thing to keep in mind though - the only thing that will make payments go through will be playable updates to the prototype/demo. updates on game information and screenshots and whatnot won't count as "game content updates". you think i should try to clarify that a little bit more on the patreon page?
 

barreytor

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Nah, just clarify the "expected one or two paid updates a month" or something like that.
(It's not like I have enough spendable money to be a patron anyway)
 
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Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Nah, just clarify the "expected one or two paid updates a month" or something like that.
(It's not like I have enough spendable money to be a patron anyway)
i actually do have that sort of written down in the 'why you should donate' section, lol. i'll clarify it a bit further that i'm aiming for one update a month at the moment, though.


also, no worries - if you want to donate in the future you're more than welcome to, but in the meantime i'll do my best to keep ULMF updated! i still care about you guys lol
 

thinien

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

the $5 contribution says there are 3 of 10 left right now. What about the ones more than $5? can we contribute more than $5 and get those perks?
 
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Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

the $5 contribution says there are 3 of 10 left right now. What about the ones more than $5? can we contribute more than $5 and get those perks?
well, the $5 tier is essentially just a cheaper, early access sort of thing to thank early adopters. it's identical to the $10 tier in every way, just at a lower price - so yes, if the $5 slots runs out, you can get the same rewards with any of the higher ones.
 

Mistah F.

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

You're a great animator and scripter, and this project and your mission statement are really encouraging.

The anatomy in your sprite art bugs the heck out of me though. I'm really late to the thread and the project for all this, I know.


The biggest problem, and one that would solve your torso length issue, is that the breast and shoulders appear to be mounted too high, at least in the running animations. The breasts and shoulders look like they start at the base of the neck. Neckboobs. Define the shoulders and/or bring the shoulders and arms down a little, and then reposition the breasts so the beginning of their bulge starts at the armpits.

There's a lack of shoulder definition in general. On the heroine and monster's standing sprites they are both tucking the far shoulder away without turning their upper bodies correspondingly. In the sex sprites for both of them, her shoulders and shoulder blades are entirely absent. I think this also causes her arms to be thin and straight - lack of foundation.

There is a general problem you have with torsos, I think. You draw them straight down with a dip in the back, but people's torsos are more bean-shaped. A person's front and back both curve the same way and the chest is sloped (men as well as women) from the very top where the shoulders are, the leanest part of the torso. I think this is why the monster's body looks flat.

In the standing sprite you seem to be trying to show us her butt, but from that angle - nearly facing us - you just wouldn't see it. The butt flattens out from the crack, where it bulges, and at that angle the bulge would be completely behind her and not within view. At angles like that you should focus on defining her hips and leading into the outer thighs with them.

In her standing sprite the jacket doesn't fall over her breasts correctly. The jacket opening appears to be facing directly toward us and her breasts appear pointed slightly away. It also doesn't match the running and jumping sprites: When standing the jacket is big enough to nearly cover her breasts, when running her breasts are so big that the jacket can only hang behind them.

Finally, consider that pectoral muscles and breasts are attached to the chest AND the shoulders, and that breasts only make cleavage inside clothing or anything else forcing them together. Even ridiculously large breasts hang to the sides when unsupported.
 
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Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

You're a great animator and scripter, and this project and your mission statement are really encouraging.

The anatomy in your sprite art bugs the heck out of me though. I'm really late to the thread and the project for all this, I know.


The biggest problem, and one that would solve your torso length issue, is that the breast and shoulders appear to be mounted too high, at least in the running animations. The breasts and shoulders look like they start at the base of the neck. Neckboobs. Define the shoulders and/or bring the shoulders and arms down a little, and then reposition the breasts so the beginning of their bulge starts at the armpits.

There's a lack of shoulder definition in general. On the heroine and monster's standing sprites they are both tucking the far shoulder away without turning their upper bodies correspondingly. In the sex sprites for both of them, her shoulders and shoulder blades are entirely absent. I think this also causes her arms to be thin and straight - lack of foundation.

There is a general problem you have with torsos, I think. You draw them straight down with a dip in the back, but people's torsos are more bean-shaped. A person's front and back both curve the same way and the chest is sloped (men as well as women) from the very top where the shoulders are, the leanest part of the torso. I think this is why the monster's body looks flat.

In the standing sprite you seem to be trying to show us her butt, but from that angle - nearly facing us - you just wouldn't see it. The butt flattens out from the crack, where it bulges, and at that angle the bulge would be completely behind her and not within view. At angles like that you should focus on defining her hips and leading into the outer thighs with them.

In her standing sprite the jacket doesn't fall over her breasts correctly. The jacket opening appears to be facing directly toward us and her breasts appear pointed slightly away. It also doesn't match the running and jumping sprites: When standing the jacket is big enough to nearly cover her breasts, when running her breasts are so big that the jacket can only hang behind them.

Finally, consider that pectoral muscles and breasts are attached to the chest AND the shoulders, and that breasts only make cleavage inside clothing or anything else forcing them together. Even ridiculously large breasts hang to the sides when unsupported.
i appreciate the suggestions, there was a lot of helpful info in there - however, a few of them are a bit off. i'll go through your comments in order.

the running "neckboobs" is something i noticed a while ago. i will admit torso spriting is my weakness, shoulders especially, and i was planning on going back over the animation very soon to fix up a lot of the problems with it.
i messed around with the monster sprite a bit though, to give his far shoulder more definition:

it definitely looks better so i'll try to rework animations to reflect the change.
Alicia's standing sprite likely won't go through that change, though. her far shoulder is more or less hidden by her jacket and breasts, and her posture wouldn't really show off that shoulder all too much. to be perfectly honest though, i'm really not sure what i can do to her side poses to give her shoulders definition.. it's a tricky perspective to work with in regards to that.


i don't think i agree with your torso comments, though. the enemy's back may look flat, but at least part of that is because he's not intended to perfectly emulate the human body - his upper torso is hunched forward a bit to give him a more monster-like appearance, while his lower torso doesn't curve in the same way. thus, it doesn't curve in a bean-like fashion. as for the lady, her torso does curve quite a bit in her sideways standing sprite. here's a shot of her torso sans-arms:

her stomach may seem a bit flat, but curving it forward more makes her breasts look less impressive, so i chose the lesser of two evils.

i recently got complaints from a very vocal person about her ass, specifically the standing sprite, and i said the exact same thing you did. what you're looking at are her shorts flaring out to the side rather than hugging her legs, not me attempting to make her ass show. if you look at her other leg they also stick out a bit over there. still, i'll try tweaking with it to make it more obvious.

as for her jacket not falling correctly, you could consider it an artistic liberty to try and show off her cleavage more, lol. i'm not just going to excuse it like that though. i'll mess around with it a bit to see if i can make it look more natural without diminishing her cleavage. you'd be wrong about the jacking not matching up correctly in the running sprite, though - it's not hanging back because her breasts are too big, but because it's catching wind from her movement and flowing backwards.

that last one can definitely be explained away with artistic liberties, though. i'm not going for hyperrealism - cleavage is sexy, and if you look at the most recent sex animation i posted, you can tell that her breasts ARE falling to the side during the animation rather than ignoring gravity.


anyway, thanks for taking the time to write all that - and doing so in a respectful manner, nonetheless. i appreciate that greatly, and i'll do my best to improve it. :)
 

Anticor

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Always exciting to watch a new H developer trying things out. Hope it works out for ya. I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines till I can give feedback on the gameplay. :)

At first glance the sprites look fine to me. It's obvious you cared and put some soul into them, so that must be what I'm seeing more so than the "imperfections". I've seen a lot of bad spriting in many Japanese H games and I gota say, it's nice to see something more fluid like yours for once. It's exciting to know that you always keep improving them as well.

I'm curious about one thing though, will there be any monster girls in your game?
 
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Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

Always exciting to watch a new H developer trying things out. Hope it works out for ya. I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines till I can give feedback on the gameplay. :)

At first glance the sprites look fine to me. It's obvious you cared and put some soul into them, so that must be what I'm seeing more so than the "imperfections". I've seen a lot of bad spriting in many Japanese H games and I gota say, it's nice to see something more fluid like yours for once. It's exciting to know that you always keep improving them as well.

I'm curious about one thing though, will there be any monster girls in your game?
hey, thanks for all the kind words! comments like this mean a lot, after pouring hours of work into the game. i know it can definitely be improved further, but getting a little positive feedback once in a while is great for morale.

as for your question, there will be some females, yes. i can't say how many, as the enemy list is still largely unfinished, but i plan to have at least one straight-up female and one futa. if you had anything particular in mind, let me know so i can keep it up for consideration :)
 

HentaiProdigy

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I request some oversized dongers and some stomach distension caused by them! That is my demand. Now go, Anon42, fulfill your destiny of the oversized dongers!

*hint: minotaurs are awesome for this purpose. Hint. Hint hint.*
 
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Anon42

Anon42

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Re: Crisis Point: Extinction - Metroidvania H-game - NOW ON PATREON!

I request some oversized dongers and some stomach distension caused by them! That is my demand. Now go, Anon42, fulfill your destiny of the oversized dongers!

*hint: minotaurs are awesome for this purpose. Hint. Hint hint.*
 
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