ACT Shota [ExcessM] 廻るハゴコロ / Mawaru Hagokoro (RJ325142)

[Triplebrc]

Literally what would you do?
You pay a company, DLsite, to translate your game. They have a track record of translating other games before, so you say, "english version on the way." DLsite never delivers.

So literally. If you were in his shoes what would you do differently. Serious question.

The problem was that he originally paid someone else to do the translation, the same one who did Smashboy if I remember correctly, but something went wrong and that deal went south. The next logical thing to do would have been to pay another translator and get that stuff out asap, since it was already promised to be out when the news of it not happening finally surfaced. Instead, likely to save money, he went to DLSite for translations, which was bound to take a long time given the big backlog of games they have to translate, which is a rather known problem, he did not even get a release date from them he could give to the customers who bought the game assuming an english translation was about to come, and after many months of not delivering he just considered it to be a lost cause and said "well too bad" to the new audience he got for his game and promised a translation for. For me this was fail after fail, and proof that the guy did not really care too much, he baited people in with the English language button and felt like it was not his problem.

It's not completely a machine translation. The "machine translation" differentiates between gender, and has unique terminology like enlightenmenter which a "machine" would never come up with. It's definitely edited machine translation, which is a considerable amount of work.

What are you talking about? Machine translations like from google translate and other translation tools do often include gender, they just have a tendency to mess it up at times. To me it almost looks like a normal machine translation, a few fancy words here and there, some words that definitely do not belong in the situation they appear in, messed up grammar (that even I can identify, and I never learned much about English grammar since I am basically self taught in English) and it being hard to make sense out of at times. If this is supposed to be some hybrid between machine and real translation that required a ton of work, then I'd say that was a wasted effort. Another reason I do not believe that to be the case is that the guy admits that he has zero knowledge about the English language (however thats possible in the current year), so he could not have done that kind of editing, and I think it is highly unlikely that he paid someone for a partially edited machine translation, because if you pay someone you might as well pay for the real thing.

And it's not bug reports that's getting to him. It's all the feedback about the lack of content, which he says he's aware of, but really couldn't do much about because of all the features he added for "westerner's" sake.

He complained about there being too many bug reports, about frustrated users calling him a scammer because they bought his product and could not get it to work despite their best efforts. All the stuff like editing text or events are included for everyone btw, not just westerners, or don't you think japanese users appreciate the option to have the enemies say what they want them to say, especially with a fetish like this that only works with text to turn what looks like a normal interaction into a rapey one? I also refuse to believe that japanese users are not also vocal about the lack of content. Can't do much is also another bad excuse. We do not live in the 90s anymore, it is standard practice to shove in content patches after release together with bug fixes, or even as paid dlc, which are all things he could do to get rid of this problem many users seem to have with the game. He made bonus content for Yume too, so whats stopping him from doing it again, aside from him perhaps being unwilling to do it?

I think you're being too standoffish. At the end of the day you want ExcessM to make more games, and to acknowledge you and at least attempt to release games that you can play and enjoy. This is something the western community and dev can meet each other halfway on. No need to burn bridges. If he stopped making games at some point in the future, that would really suck.

I want him to make more games, I think I said as much, I just want him to not bother with making things more accessible to the west if he half asses it and then uses it as an excuse as to why the product he delivered was not up to par, or claiming it was ruining his life when he could manage a massive steam release with no such problems. His games do not actually require a translation to be playable, I played through all games except Smashboy without translation with very limited japanese knowledge, the stories are bare bones, almost no proper character interactions until Yume, the scenes are rather self explanatory and basic machine translation is sufficient to navigate menus and items.
There are however different expectations on games if more features are promised and tech support for the west is announced, also if someone actually buys the game. This dev is someone I will most likely stop buying games from and just download them for free instead, as I will have far lower expectations so things like it getting no proper official translation, or features that were taken out, or a lack of content won't annoy me since my expectations will be far lower. The only reason I bought this game after the screw up with the Yume translation was because I got up on the hype train, but the game turned out to be quite lazy in many ways, and even the features like event editting turned out to not be all what was promised due to how much they limit you. If the choice is between this kind of game with machine translation, and a much better game with more content but no machine translation, then I say give me the latter and I just do the translations I deem necessary by myself, just like I did with Parade Buster.

 

[IlliumEinsbun]

I'm thinking the inclusion of all these extra features like a character creator, custom event creator, and the like is what led to the main game having less content than his previous games.


Literally what would you do?
You pay a company, DLsite, to translate your game. They have a track record of translating other games before, so you say, "english version on the way." DLsite never delivers.

So literally. If you were in his shoes what would you do differently. Serious question.


It's not completely a machine translation. The "machine translation" differentiates between gender, and has unique terminology like enlightenmenter which a "machine" would never come up with. It's definitely edited machine translation, which is a considerable amount of work.

And it's not bug reports that's getting to him. It's all the feedback about the lack of content, which he says he's aware of, but really couldn't do much about because of all the features he added for "westerner's" sake.

On this I agree with you. I do feel he added too much superfluous stuff like, event editing, and character creation, and all that. If the removal of such features led to a more polished game with more content I would remove them any day.


I think you're being too standoffish. At the end of the day you want ExcessM to make more games, and to acknowledge you and at least attempt to release games that you can play and enjoy. This is something the western community and dev can meet each other halfway on. No need to burn bridges. If he stopped making games at some point in the future, that would really suck.

Seems to me he was going to put things like character creator and event creator from the beginning of development far before any translation. Besides he asked everyone about the translation and the bug fixes in the game via questionnaire on cien so don't see how this would make for less content. At this point a map creator would not even seem too far fetched considering he would have to remake whole parts of the game to implement any of the content mentioned prior. He could just make another tower or dungeon like in Parade Buster and Yumesame but seeing how frustrated he is right now would probably take a while for him to cope before implementing anything else.

 

[TheUnsaid]

I see your point when it comes to DLSite translation.
He definitely fell into sunken cost fallacy there. He already paid for a translation. And who knows, DLSite could still be translating it now.
Since he paid once, he doesn't want to do it again no matter how slow the service of DLSite was even though it was a promise on his end.

Well at least he won't fall for it again.

Machine translations like from google translate and other translation tools do often include gender, they just have a tendency to mess it up at times.

If you're translating from English to Japanese the translation will always try to include a subject which sounds overly formal in Japanese.
Japanese doesn't need the subject, so casual speech doesn't have it. If you try to machine translate most games, you'll notice they'll refer to everything by the default of HE.

If you look at Aesthetic's machine translation of Lillith in Nightmare before it got hand-edited you'll notice "he" being said everywhere. It's so ridiculous that they even do "his vagina."

Another reason I do not believe that to be the case is that the guy admits that he has zero knowledge about the English language

No professional knowledge maybe. He did respond to my ci-en posts in good enough english, with a rudimentary understanding of grammar.

All the stuff like editing text or events are included for everyone btw, not just westerners, or don't you think japanese users appreciate the option to have the enemies say what they want them to say, especially with a fetish like this that only works with text to turn what looks like a normal interaction into a rapey one?

I'll admit this is my assumption.
My assumption:
Text-editing as a function came only because of the fact that he made a system that can read external files for the sake of the translation, and he just evolved that system.

In his previous translated work, Smash Boy, that feature doesn't exist, and WOLFRPG does have file-handling capabilities after all.

There are however different expectations on games if more features are promised and tech support for the west is announced, also if someone actually buys the game. This dev is someone I will most likely stop buying games from and just download them for free instead, as I will have far lower expectations so things like it getting no proper official translation, or features that were taken out, or a lack of content won't annoy me since my expectations will be far lower. The only reason I bought this game after the screw up with the Yume translation was because I got up on the hype train, but the game turned out to be quite lazy in many ways, and even the features like event editting turned out to not be all what was promised due to how much they limit you. If the choice is between this kind of game with machine translation, and a much better game with more content but no machine translation, then I say give me the latter and I just do the translations I deem necessary by myself, just like I did with Parade Buster.

Outside of the piracy, I'd say that's a pretty reasonable take.

 

[Triplebrc]

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Dev mentioning, and linking the site that he wants to use as a wiki for players to share their custom scenarios with each other. Site looks a bit messy and is entirely in japanese so I haven't yet tried to really figure it out. Here is the link to the site if someone wants to look into it:

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[Deleted member 371426]

You must be registered to see the links

Dev mentioning, and linking the site that he wants to use as a wiki for players to share their custom scenarios with each other. Site looks a bit messy and is entirely in japanese so I haven't yet tried to really figure it out. Here is the link to the site if someone wants to look into it:

You must be registered to see the links

Don't expect too much from this. He did this for Paradebuster too and it flew under the radar of many. That one did get about a dozen submissions, some of which containing dialogue for multiple characters, though.

 

[Strange]

not sure what changing system to japanesse means, and i did ofcourse switch locale to japanesse

Other than properly reading the post that answered you, I could advice paying attention to the dev him/her/it/themselves:

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I haven't encountered this issue myself. But this (time/date format) would be the 'second part' mentioned in that other post.

 

[neutral]

as for the custom scenario editor....Is there a way to import custom characters, or custom "units" (groups of characters). Also, is there no function to rotate characters around? for example, using foot soldier x3, and wanting to switch to the other soldier.

 

[Addiction100]

I think this was a pretty good game. Loved some scenes, but wasn't a fan of some other scenes. Solid 9/10.

 

[Nigersaurus]

I really miss his side-scrolling pixel art "soccer battle" games.

 

[TheUnsaid]

I really miss his side-scrolling pixel art "soccer battle" games.

There was only 1 game with a sports theme... "games" XD
And I mean. Yumesame is a side-scroller type as well as Smash Boy.

 

[Deleted member 371426]

I really miss his side-scrolling pixel art "soccer battle" games.

I miss Kariyume-- my first non-VN hentai game if I remember correctly. I'd love to see it and Onesyota remade in unity or as a wolfrpg sidescroller like Smashboy and Yumesame.

 

[TheUnsaid]

I miss Kariyume-- my first non-VN hentai game if I remember correctly. I'd love to see it and Onesyota remade in unity or as a wolfrpg sidescroller like Smashboy and Yumesame.

I do think he's gone too far into making the Main Characters super strong.

Actual gameplay experience is very divorce from the sexual experience.
Yumesame especially was the first game it really felt off. The protagonist is basically a god that mows down enemies with a flick of the wrist. He's stronger than anyone in that game and not even marginally.

ExcessM had to come up with magic contrivances like the sword makes him weak to temptation for the game to make sense as a femdom game.

It's the same in Mawaru Hagokoro. Gen is also a godlike beast in combat proficiency. The sole person to ever learn all 3 styles of fighting and mastered it to expert level TWICE.
ExcessM had to come up with magic contrivances like the whole enlightenmenter's are weak to temptation thing for the game to make any sense as a femdom game.

This doesn't reverberate throughout the experience. If you feel like a badass one second and the next it's the exact opposite, than you're not really playing a femdom game until you fuck up on purpose.

===
An example of this happening in AAA gaming is Resident Evil 6.
The original resident evils had tank controls, slow turning characters, characters who can't move and shoot, claustrophobic spaces where zombies would bite you as soon as you turn a corner, a terrible melee option, limited saves and ammo.
This game felt like a horror game.


Resident Evil 6 just has fast controls, run and gun. Kick like a martial artist. Spend your submachine gun's ammo like candy.
This game felt like an action game.

It's the same deal with ExcessM if you replace the horror atmosphere with reverse rape femdom.
-------
Game's like Poring's Castle of Temptation and Zell's original SnY made the protagonist weak, so the sexual experience is there at all points through the experience.
===

That being said, ExcessM moved on from weak characters who literally can't run past enemies without taking damage, in only 1 game. Kariyume's soccer boy was quite the badass, and it kind of just escalated from there.

 

[IlliumEinsbun]

I do think he's gone too far into making the Main Characters super strong.

Actual gameplay experience is very divorce from the sexual experience.
Yumesame especially was the first game it really felt off. The protagonist is basically a god that mows down enemies with a flick of the wrist. He's stronger than anyone in that game and not even marginally.

ExcessM had to come up with magic contrivances like the sword makes him weak to temptation for the game to make sense as a femdom game.

It's the same in Mawaru Hagokoro. Gen is also a godlike beast in combat proficiency. The sole person to ever learn all 3 styles of fighting and mastered it to expert level TWICE.
ExcessM had to come up with magic contrivances like the whole enlightenmenter's are weak to temptation thing for the game to make any sense as a femdom game.

This doesn't reverberate throughout the experience. If you feel like a badass one second and the next it's the exact opposite, than you're not really playing a femdom game until you fuck up on purpose.

===
An example of this happening in AAA gaming is Resident Evil 6.
The original resident evils had tank controls, slow turning characters, characters who can't move and shoot, claustrophobic spaces where zombies would bite you as soon as you turn a corner, a terrible melee option, limited saves and ammo.
This game felt like a horror game.


Resident Evil 6 just has fast controls, run and gun. Kick like a martial artist. Spend your submachine gun's ammo like candy.
This game felt like an action game.

It's the same deal with ExcessM if you replace the horror atmosphere with reverse rape femdom.
-------
Game's like Poring's Castle of Temptation and Zell's original SnY made the protagonist weak, so the sexual experience is there at all points through the experience.
===

That being said, ExcessM moved on from weak characters who literally can't run past enemies without taking damage, in only 1 game. Kariyume's soccer boy was quite the badass, and it kind of just escalated from there.

Going to have to disagree with the weak male protagonist proposal. For one Excessm's characters are not Luka or Kazuya they have help from other monsters that give them their power and help them gain abilities until they "git gud" but in one syota and karuyume other than the single spirit helping them they are alone literally fighting an army of hungry nymphomaniacs until they beat the leader by the skin of their teeth in the first two games. They are overpowered by obligation since there is no sylph or serene mind or a magic come back to life card given to them, only the skills and weapons they have to work with. In Yume-Same "your example" Reve was most certainly not a god or overpowered before getting the sword and Excessm made that pretty clear in the beginning. Not only that but under several occasions he needed help to escape certain defeat, so you don't need an underpowered or underwhelming hero like Luka or Kazuya who struggled to even fight basic enemies you can have an intelligble hero who knows some things but has weaknesses and exploits such as Goku's tail in DB and The red moon in Inuyasha turning him temporarily full human.

Second point is Excessm's style. He has made male characters worth their salt pretty much since his inception, (for example the cop from one syota, the helpers who train Lest in PB, Even in Hagokoro his latest game the male generals know how to hold their own without the protagonist). Suffice to say your kinda asking Excessm to change the bread and butter of his stories by making the males weaker or even just the protagonist. I really enjoy the change of pace personally since in other H games I have played, very few of them have competent males. I can only name Lust Grimm and the Succubus tamer games maybe Sengoku Rance but more often than not males are foolish useless or just food for monster girls. I really don't need to tell you how uterly pathetic males are in MGQ do I, they willfully abandon their families for monster girls, think of their own lives as nothing but pleasure, and worst of all outside of heroes WHO WERE TAUGHT BY MONSTERS non of them are capable of defeating anything remotely mediocre or strong on their own. In Shrift it is far worse. Humans are pretty much useless and can only struggle to get away from demons or become food and die no in-between. To me I NEED creators like Excessm to show the other way around. Losing only if a male is incompetent or lets his lust get the better of him not as if he is not capable or able on his own merits.

 

[TheUnsaid]

In Yume-Same "your example" Reve was most certainly not a god or overpowered before getting the sword and Excessm made that pretty clear in the beginning.

He's the son of the hero of the kingdom and the best mage, meaning he's got that innate bloodline talent.
He knows magic and all forms of weapon combat, by the age of like 13. Through his subquesting you learn that his diplomatic ability is also insane for his age. His father was so much better than everyone else his adopted sister became a demon lord through the jealousy. MC in Yume gets better than his dad, at a younger age.

Not only that but under several occasions he needed help to escape certain defeat

It only happened once, and that was in the beginning due to dumb magic bullshit he had no control over.
"Oh you can't use your only weapon yet and just having it hurts you. Can't let go either."

In the water area, he's not actually in danger, just separated from his friend.

He has made male characters worth their salt pretty much since his inception, (for example the cop from one syota, the helpers who train Lest in PB, Even in Hagokoro his latest game the male generals know how to hold their own without the protagonist).

I agree this is true.
None of them are on the same level of ridiculousness as the main character ever is, but they are definitely capable, which is definitely a welcome change of pace.

___

Still I'm surprised you think Luca and Kazuya are weak.

Luca gets his spirits taken away in Part 3, and fights monsters even the King of Sabasa(the strongest known human) can't defeat on his own.
Kazuya can literally end the world on Genocide.

Suffice to say your kinda asking Excessm to change the bread and butter of his stories by making the males weaker or even just the protagonist. I really enjoy the change of pace personally since in other H games I have played, very few of them have competent males.

I can't think of any like serious (where the plot's not a comedy) h-games where the male leads aren't super competent.

In Ason's Cumpet game which the protagonist is put in a very submissive position at the start of the game, as you can tell by the title "cumpet," even he goes off and defeats the demon lord through the sexual and physical skills he accrued.
In Monster Fighter Ashita, the MC's almost at Strider Hiryu levels of extreme competency.
MGQ's Luca solves the worlds problems, by starting a world in which monsters and humans can begin their coexistence even if there are roadbumps along the way. He's super competent. In Paradox you learn he's a genius in intellect though he doesn't have the drive to use it. He does all manners of housework perfectly. He solves the problems of so many cities and people that his legend eclipses that of Heinrich the hero.
SHRIFTs Kazuya saves the souls of his would be soul owners, reforming them into functional members of society all while taking on cases where he saves random civilians from demon related cases by the end. If you go Genocide he can end everyone. Seriously everyone. Even Titanoboa.

I feel like male characters get judged too harshly in media enough as it is. By default they have to be competent.

I can only name Lust Grimm and the Succubus tamer games

How are they incompetent?
In Lust Grimm there are adults who can't make it past the succubi because they lose to temptation. The MC is literally the only one doing any work saving everyone in that world.
In Succubus Tamer, the MC is the one doing all the work. He gets all the levels for all of his allies, he defeats everyone sexually, and he solves all of their emotional trauma and general life baggage issues.

maybe Sengoku Rance but more often than not males are foolish useless or just food for monster girls.

Honestly... you should probably just stop playing femdom focused sex games and go to the maledom sphere.
Those guys are generally aggressive and can't get girls with their personality so they have no qualms raping the girls. They have to take a very active role when it comes to getting girls.

I don't know how you're defining "competence" and why some characters have it and other's don't.
The fact that you brought up Succubus Tamer as an example of "incompetence?" though just kind of shows to me, that to you the guy needs to take the lead in the sexual circumstance for you to consider them competent.

I really don't need to tell you how uterly pathetic males are in MGQ do I, they willfully abandon their families for monster girls, think of their own lives as nothing but pleasure, and worst of all outside of heroes WHO WERE TAUGHT BY MONSTERS non of them are capable of defeating anything remotely mediocre or strong on their own. In Shrift it is far worse. Humans are pretty much useless and can only struggle to get away from demons or become food and die no in-between.

We're talking about the hero here right? Not humans in general?

Everything you just said also applies to ExcessM's games? Parade Buster, Yumesame, and all of them. Heck even Hagokoro has most males in a submissive position because of the nature of that world's power imbalance.

The males in MGQ are pathetic yeah. Not all of them I'd say, but yeah. Harpy Village is pretty bad especially. They just get kidnapped and raped by harpies, and don't even think about coming back to say anything to the families they left estranged. I'm not about to defend them. But like... those are gag males though. Like the guys who visit succubus village to get milked, or the guys who go into colliseum battles because they want to be raped by Alma Elma. Luca's alright, and so is the King of Sabasa, but the rest are pretty bad.

In Shrift it is far worse. Humans are pretty much useless and can only struggle to get away from demons or become food and die no in-between.

Yeah I mean... They're like a supernatural force that exceed human abilities.
Kazuya and his best friend Yuuma have special abilities because Kazuya is tainted by angelic energy from his girlfriend Reina, and Yuuma was raped by Daji pretty early on, becoming her familiar.

I think humans put up a really good fight though. Most of the humans in SHRIFTS world managed to escape ground zero. They invented specialized equipment that can fight off the monsters in a short 2 years, and the world reached a more balanced state even without Kazuya doing anything. It's just that demons are now a part of the world. It didn't lead to an apocalypse.

___

That being said we were talking about main characters.

To me I NEED creators like Excessm to show the other way around. Losing only if a male is incompetent or lets his lust get the better of him not as if he is not capable or able on his own merits.

What game doesn't do this?

In which game do you NOT lose if your character is incompetent or his lust gets the better of him.

=====

EDIT:

Luka or Kazuya they have help from other monsters

Wait, is this it? Because they have help you consider them incompetent?
Like... even maledom games like Rance the MC has party members you know. MC has to solo the world to be competent?

 

[mmmxj]

Still I'm surprised you think Luca and Kazuya are weak.

Luca gets his spirits taken away in Part 3, and fights monsters even the King of Sabasa(the strongest known human) can't defeat on his own.

To be fair, that's after his angel powers are fully awakened. Yeah, he is a bit of a prodigy when it comes to combat, but he starts off a weak little boy. If Alice didn't hand him Angel Halo, he never would've gotten anywhere in the OG trilogy. He starts weak, but with insane potential, unlike some of the other h-protagonists, where they start OP, but have to be nerfed as you said with obligatory restrictions to make it a femdom game.

Kazuya can literally end the world on Genocide.

That's the same case though, isn't it? Kazuya starts incredibly weak, but he grows stronger over the course of Genocide. Granted I never played the Geno route, but I assume that's how that works.

I can't think of any like serious (where the plot's not a comedy) h-games where the male leads aren't super competent.

MGQ's Luca solves the worlds problems, by starting a world in which monsters and humans can begin their coexistence even if there are roadbumps along the way. He's super competent. In Paradox you learn he's a genius in intellect though he doesn't have the drive to use it. He does all manners of housework perfectly. He solves the problems of so many cities and people that his legend eclipses that of Heinrich the hero.

I'll have to disagree on this point. Luka's an idiot. A naive, well-meaning idiot. That's sort of his character. He practically grew up without parents, in a village that hated him, until he outlived everyone. The world he's in is just kind enough to let him get by anyway. Not that he's stupid, mind you, I'm not insulting his intelligence, again he masters battle techniques after just seeing them demonstrated once, and yeah he's able to cook gourmet meals out of wild grass and salt. I'd just say that in terms of stats, his intelligence might be high, but his quest for coexistence is also about getting wiser. Paradox is a different can of worms, that runs on different rules and logic than the OG universe.

SHRIFTs Kazuya saves the souls of his would be soul owners, reforming them into functional members of society all while taking on cases where he saves random civilians from demon related cases by the end. If you go Genocide he can end everyone. Seriously everyone. Even Titanoboa.

Kazuya I agree, is definitely competent and a quick thinker/learner to boot. All Luka had to do was whack people with a fancy sword. Kazuya has to put his brain on overdrive every time he runs into a monster. Even with his angelic energy powers or whatever, all it really takes is one solid hit to put him out of commission (At least on Pacifist).

Everything you just said also applies to ExcessM's games? Parade Buster, Yumesame, and all of them. Heck even Hagokoro has most males in a submissive position because of the nature of that world's power imbalance.

Smash Boy at least has the excuse that there aren't really any other males. I'm not sure why, it's kind of arcadey in that way. In Parade Buster, it's weird, because males do exist, in the towns and such... but all of the guards, warriors, etc. are female? Like, all of them. Obviously that's cause it's a femdom game, and I don't think the players would take kindly to fighting guards whipping their dicks out, but still, no one even tries to help the hero aside from the standard dream knight, not counting the princess. Yumesame has some competent/powerful males, the only one you really get to see that's not part of the Reve's squad is the bum adventurer who works his way into the castle. The inn keepers seemed somewhat alright, aside from having a drinking problem. Haven't played Hagokoro yet, so I can't speak for that. In Onesyota/shota, Shota's just a weak little kid, and I think the same's for Kariyume? They both get blessed with a cool dream world knight, it's just the kid in Kariyume's a lot more aggressive and flashy than Shota.

The males in MGQ are pathetic yeah. Not all of them I'd say, but yeah. Harpy Village is pretty bad especially. They just get kidnapped and raped by harpies, and don't even think about coming back to say anything to the families they left estranged. I'm not about to defend them. But like... those are gag males though. Like the guys who visit succubus village to get milked, or the guys who go into colliseum battles because they want to be raped by Alma Elma. Luca's alright, and so is the King of Sabasa, but the rest are pretty bad.

Yeah again, MGQ's world works a bit too much on happy-go-lucky logic, where people can do stupid things and aren't punished with obvious consequences. Usually because Luka shows up and saves the day, but still.

Though as you say, competence is a vague word and the definition we're using might not be the same.

He's the son of the hero of the kingdom and the best mage, meaning he's got that innate bloodline talent.
He knows magic and all forms of weapon combat, by the age of like 13. Through his subquesting you learn that his diplomatic ability is also insane for his age. His father was so much better than everyone else his adopted sister became a demon lord through the jealousy. MC in Yume gets better than his dad, at a younger age.

Also, not sure about this. Reve's great, sure, but when he loses the cursed sword, he can't do much, even with his sword training. His dad on the other hand, somehow is able to hold off the Dream Princess for the entirety of the game, twice, without the cursed sword. Not saying Reve isn't completely busted, just that his dad's still a little stronger, until maybe the end when Reve basically fuses with the sword.

Anyway long rant replies over, mostly just saw a discussion about Luka and wanted to comment, and got a bit carried away.

 

[TheUnsaid]

I'll have to disagree on this point. Luka's an idiot. A naive, well-meaning idiot. That's sort of his character. He practically grew up without parents, in a village that hated him, until he outlived everyone. The world he's in is just kind enough to let him get by anyway. Not that he's stupid, mind you, I'm not insulting his intelligence, again he masters battle techniques after just seeing them demonstrated once, and yeah he's able to cook gourmet meals out of wild grass and salt. I'd just say that in terms of stats, his intelligence might be high, but his quest for coexistence is also about getting wiser. Paradox is a different can of worms, that runs on different rules and logic than the OG universe.

"Idiots" can be competent.
Competence just means the ability to get things done.

And he gets the most done.
Even though I disagree with the basic premise of idiot.

Also, not sure about this. Reve's great, sure, but when he loses the cursed sword, he can't do much, even with his sword training. His dad on the other hand, somehow is able to hold off the Dream Princess for the entirety of the game, twice, without the cursed sword. Not saying Reve isn't completely busted, just that his dad's still a little stronger, until maybe the end when Reve basically fuses with the sword.

Good point.

Not to get too off-topic but my argument against Illium is basically,

To me I NEED creators like Excessm to show the other way around. Losing only if a male is incompetent or lets his lust get the better of him not as if he is not capable or able on his own merits.

What game doesn't do this?
In which game do you NOT lose if your character is incompetent or his lust gets the better of him.

 

[IlliumEinsbun]

Good thing I am off today because oh boy this is going to be a long one. This whole topic is about defending one's self nothing to do with real life and of course not making assumptions like "this guy cannot get girls in real life" is uncalled for even though I have a house and wife. Second I said the characters of succubus tamer games are competent by their own merits. Luka gets strong because of help and so does Kazuya. You all want tell me about later in the game when they can beat monsters by themselves but for the most part they never would have made it without help period. If I wanted Maledom games I would say so, this is cliche but "I am a grown man I know what I want" perfectly describes this. Seeing women get raped by disgusting creatures and men of repulsive character actually makes me angry let alone just turn me off. Going back to the games you all like to mention how Luka is a genius without realizing it and just needs motivation, well like I said before the fact that he does not use his power without being bossed around or needing someone to guide him makes him what "good, noble, brave" well to me this makes him naive at best. Recklessly traveling knowing you lack basic combat knowledge, unwilling to hurt monsters even when they are more than willing to hurt you, seeing his life as so insignificant that when there is no other life being threatened he becomes weak. No, you can all have your opinions but you are not convincing me otherwise (yes I am talking about the first game not paradox).

Kazuya is a wierd case, but the same thing still applies to him as well. It's like he does solve problems by his own merits but as for defending himself without becoming something worse than a demon it makes it redundant since their would be no world to fight for. Without the demon's in his soul he never would have made his plans come to fruition (I feel like I am just repeating myself here). Want to make a quick point here, that is still on topic of course; Killing everything and anything is not considered "self defense" to me. The act of defending is having something either yourself or other people even the world you want guarded. Genocide Kazuya does not even defend other humans, and goes out of his way to destroy other worlds outside of his own. This is still all my opinion of course, if you want to believe self defense is the amount destructive force you can inflict I won't argue. You all are right and I admit I am wrong for saying incompetent. I should have said unprogressive by their own merits. It is not Kazuya's fault in his game even if he has special demon slaying guns. Negotiating instead of defeating demons is just the better method. I just bring up if that did not work and it came down to force he would lose to any of the bosses (once again not his fault) or be forced to become worse than a demon. That was my whole point not hating the game, just wanted that deference to known compared to an Excessm game.

TheUnsaid your game is awesome, but it still proves my point not yours. Your character knows how to defend himself without help, he is not dumb or reckless by any means, he may be the only guy but he still shows that men will not innately lose to a women without a fight. I see what you are trying to say about MGQ and SHRIFT respectively but the bottom line is these characters need assistance to progress. Succubus tamer games, Lust Grimm games, Excessm games; there characters must fight with little if any assistance in that area. That was the point I was trying to make and that is why those games are more enjoyable to me. Having potential but not doing anything with it on your own and defending the world but lacking the power to even defend yourself is just sad for me, still fun but sad non the less. Once again I NEED characters that can carry out judgement to those defile them and others. Perfectly capable of downing enemies without a narcissistic monster lord's assistance or a come back to life card.

CLOSING THOUGHTS:
These debates are fun to me and it is nice listening to other peoples perspectives. I really mean it, TheUnsaid brought up good flaws with Excessm's games. I just find it wierd why people would prefer a Reckless or helpless hero rather than a person who at least does not fail if they try. Is someone who does not have to lose nearly every encounter to a monster or demon without spirits or soul monsters really so bad. Respect to all those who commented; just try not to throw jabs or assume how I interact in real life. Of course I don't act like some overbearing male in real life and treat all people I meet whether I like them or not with respect. I don't know how real life came into the picture when this forum is about H games but it's not nice to assume and certainly not tolerable to me. That is all I want to say on this matter and I look forward to more of your responses.

 

[Triplebrc]

as for the custom scenario editor....Is there a way to import custom characters, or custom "units" (groups of characters). Also, is there no function to rotate characters around? for example, using foot soldier x3, and wanting to switch to the other soldier.

There is no way to directly micromanage which character does what, at least not that I am aware of. The workaround if you want to switch them around is to create a unit you want to use several times but have the characters in a different order each time, then after the first version of the unit, aka the one girl in the first unit had her turn, you spawn in the second version of the unit with the different order, despawning the old one, and then if you initiate again the girls have switched places, at least that is the workaround I am using if I want several girls in a group to have a long scene. No way to tell the side girls which one of their moves they will use, so writing specific dialogue for it is usually a waste unless their moves do the same thing anyway.

Btw does anyone have a clue where the custom scenarios are saved?

 

[TheUnsaid]

Good thing I am off today because oh boy this is going to be a long one.

I work in IT so I'm usually just on the forum while at work.

"this guy cannot get girls in real life" is uncalled for even though I have a house and wife.

Wait.. When did anyone say that? No one's attacking your character man. If you felt that way at any point please point out what it is anyone's said that made you feel that way specifically. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.

Luka gets strong because of help and so does Kazuya. You all want tell me about later in the game when they can beat monsters by themselves but for the most part they never would have made it without help period.

How does this mean they're incompetent though?
Everyone gets help to start with. People are raised by their parents when they're children.
Heroes have mentors.

What matters is their actions and their ability to get things done.
Yeah. Luca gets gifted Angel Halo, but he still decides to help Harpy Village even though he knows the villagers have been sending various adventurers to their "deaths" he still chooses to fight the harpy queen because of his beliefs.

If I wanted Maledom games I would say so, this is cliche but "I am a grown man I know what I want" perfectly describes this. Seeing women get raped by disgusting creatures and men of repulsive character actually makes me angry let alone just turn me off.

You're the one who first mentioned Rance, so I just assumed. Guess that's my bad XD.

Going back to the games you all like to mention how Luka is a genius without realizing it and just needs motivation, well like I said before the fact that he does not use his power without being bossed around or needing someone to guide him makes him what "good, noble, brave" well to me this makes him naive at best. Recklessly traveling knowing you lack basic combat knowledge, unwilling to hurt monsters even when they are more than willing to hurt you, seeing his life as so insignificant that when there is no other life being threatened he becomes weak. No, you can all have your opinions but you are not convincing me otherwise (yes I am talking about the first game not paradox).

Does not use his power without being bossed around is not really the case.
He's a hero in training. And yes he's naive, but Alice isn't always correct. Luca brings Alice down to earth, while Alice brings Luca up. Their whole dichotomy requires Luca to not be a fully developed character early on making his journey worthwhile. Don't forget. Luca makes all of the major decisions on the trip.

TheUnsaid your game is awesome, but it still proves my point not yours. Your character knows how to defend himself without help, he is not dumb or reckless by any means, he may be the only guy but he still shows that men will not innately lose to a women without a fight.

Appreciate the callout XD
Igrec is being unilaterally raped though. He wins by letting the enemies get off to the point they lose the willpower to try and get him to submit. Also he gets help from the shopkeeper, and he'll get help from allied versions of the robot girls he encounters through the assist system.

Stories with a singular guy soloing the world are hype, but offer less in the way of character dynamics than a team of people accomplishing a goal together.

I just find it wierd why people would prefer a Reckless or helpless hero rather than a person who at least does not fail if they try. Is someone who does not have to lose nearly every encounter to a monster or demon without spirits or soul monsters really so bad.

Weak does not mean helpless.
I think you're taking too many assumptions from what I said.

Look at Dark Souls. The MC of that game is weak. He's slow. If he wields heavy weapons they swing slow. He gets tired from running and attacking. He can barely take any hits before dying, and is just generally weak. Imagine Dante from DMC in the world of Dark Souls. Imagine how short that game would be. You'd shoot down everything with your guns, teleport and just annhilate anything in your path.

OneSyota to me felt like a Dark Souls character. Shouta from that game, cannot run past enemies. He bumps into them, and gets stunned from just attempting. He cannot jump over the enemies. He cannot go into another lane to avoid the enemies. The most he can do is dodgeroll to position himself. He's not fast. His attack range is not high.

Shouta still succeeds, and the game really feels like a femdom game even in the main gameplay because sexually the girls are more powerful.
Reve in Yumesame feels like Dante from DMC. If an enemy appears in his sight he'll annihilate it without so much as a second glance.

This is what I meant by "weaker." I don't mean spiritually... like they have submissive soul that doesn't care about their own goals or anything.

Do you feel like Hagokoro is a femdom game in the gameplay when you counter click enemies to death, or use red stance to wipe the screen of enemies? The gameplay and the sexual nature of the game are divorced from each other.

 

[Arnoldcleus]

I'm not sure if my version is bugged. First tutorial battle. I defeat the girl and nothing happens. "Esc" to skip the tutorial and nothing happens.