Games Discussion Thread

[velvet.velour]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

When you guys play Dead Space when do you do it? Some of my friends play it in the day just whenever with all the lights on and stuff trying not to be frightened by the game to the best of their ability. I personally only play it once it's dark and I must also be the only one left awake. It makes it a lot scarier experience in my view and that's why I'm playing it after all, to scare myself.
One day I wish to buy loads of mannequins dress them in robes and place them in a circle around me burning only candles for light while I play some horror game at midnight.

Bonus points if you play Condemned with the mannequins. Dead Space at night in the dark is really the only way to go, but I still don't find it very frightening. Any game that gives me even somewhat effective weaponry to use just... isn't scary. I prefer games like Penumbra, Amnesia, Condemned... where you really feel like you're completely vulnerable to everything.

Dragon Age would have been fine if it came out before Mass Effect, in my opinion. Mass Effect's combat was (to me, of course) fun and fluid, and wasn't bogged down in worrying about an interface and all your bars. Dragon Age was a very classical RPG, with skill attacks, all the stat bars, and, of course, the "mute" hero. My interest would have gone up tenfold if they had voiced the first Dragon Age's lines like they did in Mass Effect.

 

[Newbie]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I was not fond of Condemned, but I think it was more because some part of me objected to beating homeless people to death with a length of pipe than anything to do with fear.

I quite enjoyed Dead Space. Eternal Darkness is a fantastic game for a mindfuck.

 

[Copper]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

A lot of Dragon Age fans will tie you to a stake and burn you alive for saying that. Dragon age is meant to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's gate, meaning that its target audience like games to to be complicated. A lot of older RPG players love having to haggle hundreds of items just to find one that's slightly better than the rest. As for the same recycled storyline... well, a lot of old fantasy stories are like that. A hero rise from a nobody, becomes a leader, lead a small army and saves the day while engaging in romance with a beautiful and dangerous woman.

Speaking of Origins, has anyone tried the DA:2 demo? Some of you might consider it a step forward, but many of of the die hard DA:O fans consider it dumbing down for the console players. Fixed camera, a lot less strategy and far too much real time action. The number of actions and spells you can now cast has been seriously cut down, meaning that the number of strategy you can take has been reduced. Also, real time movement actually works now - if an enemy's attack misses you, it actually misses you. In DA:O even if you try to dodge an attack by running around it will still hit you, meaning that you have to rely a lot more on teamwork instead. Also, judging from the size of icons in the yet non-functional item page, I suspect they have reduced the number of in game items as well. None of this will go down well with the die-hard fans.

If you ask me, they're entirely different games (having played DAO to death and the demo of ME2). I find it difficult to compare two games that, while both RPG, have enough differences in them to make them completely separate experiences. For me, ME is a shooter with RPG elements whereas DAO is a more 'classic' RPG, but then again, that's just how it came across in the demo. Despite being a diehard DA fan, I'm not going to bash someone for *not* liking it, unless they're just doing it to be flaming stupid.

As for the DA2 demo, I enjoyed it, outside of the fixed camera. I *hate* fixed camera. Still, it makes combat seem quicker and the real-time doesn't bother me all that much. It adds more action to it. And even with minimal skills you can still use a great deal of strategy. Watching an online playthrough of one of the later missions shows that. And frankly, I prefer more streamlined skills rather than a bunch of stuff I'm not ever going to use simply because it's a means to an end for the skill that I spam the hell out of. Very happy about the "attacks miss if they miss" though. So many times has it been "I'm around the freaking corner! How the hell is that archer hitting me?" (No 'Wanted' comments, thanks, heh.) And given the fact that I barely used items to begin with (outside of healing and lyrium potions...and spirit balm...) I've got no problem with that, either. I'm sure it's essential for certain situations, but once I'm through once and down to playing on casual, all that stuff becomes is coins in the pouch.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Bonus points if you play Condemned with the mannequins. Dead Space at night in the dark is really the only way to go, but I still don't find it very frightening. Any game that gives me even somewhat effective weaponry to use just... isn't scary. I prefer games like Penumbra, Amnesia, Condemned... where you really feel like you're completely vulnerable to everything.

Dragon Age would have been fine if it came out before Mass Effect, in my opinion. Mass Effect's combat was (to me, of course) fun and fluid, and wasn't bogged down in worrying about an interface and all your bars. Dragon Age was a very classical RPG, with skill attacks, all the stat bars, and, of course, the "mute" hero. My interest would have gone up tenfold if they had voiced the first Dragon Age's lines like they did in Mass Effect.

Ugh, that's one thing I don't like about DA2 and ME is the voiced lines. I want to feel perfectly in control of this character because they are supposed to be me, or an avatar of me. How can I feel in control if they keep spouting off crap I don't want them to say? That's the point of such customization, i thought. I pick the choice, because that's all I want to hear out of their mouths. you know, "At least he won't be alone" not "At least Father will have company :'D " ASDFGHJKL;

 

[Incubus]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Yeah, that is a pretty big gripe I have. If I click a button that has a line of dialogue listed, I don't want the character to say something else. I'm sorry, I don't remember picking that line.

It's why a friend of mine didn't like mass effect 2 (I never played it) and I've already experienced the same facepalm in the DA2 demo. (That I broke down and got because I wanted that free axe thing)

Screw having a voice. Let me actually pick my lines. If you're not going to, just give me the happy face/snarky face of Bard's Tale. Don't promise me a line and then give me something vaguely related to it.

 

[Newbie]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I always thought RPG had more to do with the character advancement than the gameplay. DA:O feels more traditional because it's a fantasy setting, where many RPGs take place. In both games you are responsible for the growth of your characters, and in both games your choices can have some major effects on the story.

I've never been particularly worried about whether or not they say exactly what's on the options, and I never really expected them to sitck to the script in the first place. It's an interesting gripe.

 

[OAMP]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Eh, ME2 is definitely in the top 3 favorite games I have. But then again, sci-fi is my thing, so :\

 

[JohnDoe]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

So much to do, so little time...

Dead Space 2 is indeed

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. Though once you played through it, the horror is largely lost as you already know what's going to happen.

Indeed, first time is for the scares, second time is hardcore for the skills.

I'm a bit of a dead space fan to but i dont think i could ever call it love, mostly because as games they dont over reach themselves.

as for mass effect not being a pure RPG, well i'd like to argue that statement but its nothing but somantics, it can be right or wrong depending on your definition of words.

Well, it's not exactly the game i love, more like the concept, i love survival horrors as a genre and i think that dead space really is a paragon of this genre. I love the feeling it gives me, when the adrenaline flows and my mind is focused. I love the loneliness and psychological impact of space.

The acronym RPG is generally used for categorization, if you want to take it to it's bare minimum, as in "a game in which you play a role", then about 50% of the whole gaming industry(non-tabletop) would fit in, causing quite a lot of chaos. I like to be specific, to the cost of looking fussy, ME share important traits with the FPS category and RPG category, so it's abvious it should be considered a hybrid of the 2 categories, on top of that since the battle system is not turn based ME comes from the action rpg subcategory, from this my previous statement. I don't see why you would argue against this since being a hybrid doesn't take anything away from the game, making it instead rather original(not the first) in taking a more realistic approach to space combat than games like xenosaga or phantasy star. It's not a bad thing being a hybrid, as long as it's done right.

If you ask me, they're entirely different games (having played DAO to death and the demo of ME2). I find it difficult to compare two games that, while both RPG, have enough differences in them to make them completely separate experiences. For me, ME is a shooter with RPG elements whereas DAO is a more 'classic' RPG, but then again, that's just how it came across in the demo. Despite being a diehard DA fan, I'm not going to bash someone for *not* liking it, unless they're just doing it to be flaming stupid.

My words exactly.

I always saw rpgs as interactive books, that's why i tend to like jrpg more than wrpg, i want a long articulated story full of twists with interesting complex characters and interactions. Take the good old D&D, the fun part is not the game itself, it's joking around with your friends, messing with the game master's ideas and occasionally shoot a fireball in the middle of an horde of goblins. When you play MMORPGs it's the same, but when you are doing single player games it's different, no one can really have fun doing fetch quests on their own and it's not much fun to look at others doing them. Single player games need a good story to keep being interesting for me.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I for one liked having the main characters in Mass Effect 1/2 and Dragon Age 2 having a voice. I guess I'm just tired of the voiceless character who doesn't get all the good speeches, and is referred to by title alone because they're not a set character in the world.

Sure what comes out of the character's mouth is a little different from what is said on the screen, but it's not merely "vaguely related". You choose the tone of what's about to be said, and the character says something building up from that base. "At least he won't be alone," is given more character with "Now father has some company". And really one should expect something a little snarky with that comment considering it had the symbol for the sarcastic option. I don't see the symbols as hand holding, so much as giving you a visual as to what tone the character is going to use, rather than making one guess.

But maybe I'm alone in this.

 

[Nunu]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

well there are ups and downs to having a voice, but either way bioware tends to do rather well.

as for dragon age being baldurs gate? Baldurs gate 2 is probably my favourite fantasy RPG, why? because it is so fantastical. the world is full of colour and vibrancy (and riddles, tons of riddles in that game). This is what their games had been missing since, well basicaly since they went 3d, as far as i can tell the introduction of this 3d caused art assets to be massivley harder to make so you can't just go crazy any more.

And thats why i couldn't get into dragon age. it was boring (to me), just another generic fantasy setting with another flavour of elves dwarves and men. bad guys straight from lord of the rings and the only thing that really rung new was that the arch demon was a dragon. So i'd never call it a bad game, just a boring one and it doesn't have enough to hold my interest.

and sin, i take it you liked the part where you headbut the krogan?

The acronym RPG is generally used for categorization, if you want to take it to it's...

Well i said i wasn't going to argue this because it was puerly somantic, but if we are defining things we are going to have to use my definitions, unless you also have a degree in media theory and games design. My judgement is that in the entire academic no one has ever come up a concrete definition and there fore there is no correct definition.

In my personal opinion though (as opposed to my academic opinion of i could write my docterate on that and still be wrong), mass effect has more RPG than it does FPS (not dissimilar to the concept of jade empire, which is technicaly heavy on 3d beat-em-up elements). This is opposed to an FPS RPG which is more along the lines of tron 2.0 or system shock 2 (bioshock for you newer kids) which are FPS with RPG elements.

Similarly i would classify Dead Space as an FPS RPG (technicaly 3rd person shooter but that doesn't roll off the tongue so well) with horror elements as the combat and action are much eavier elements in the story than the horror or the survival (these are different as amnesia the dark decent shows, which is an excelent horror game but quite a boring survival one). An example of survival horror being, of course resident evil 1 (i've only played the remake) and silent hill, which both emphasise survival and horror more or less exclusivley.

This of course speaks to the entire somantic nature of the problem. As correct (given my definitions) as i may be to classify dead space as a FPS RPG, that doesn't stop it being scary (to some people anyway, t'was a walk in the park for me).

 

[OAMP]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

But maybe I'm alone in this.

Oh no, in fact I think I've gotten a bit spoiled expecting other's to follow their lead by now.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

and sin, i take it you liked the part where you headbut the krogan?

Yes, yes I did. I loved that part.

Though, for clarification, how is Dead Space an FPS RPG... the only RPG like element I've seen is shopping really, and a little bit of weapon upgrading, but that's been around awhile in various other FPS games.

And I'm spoiled too Amp.

 

[Nunu]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

well in common verbiage RPG has often tended to become more related to character development through choice of what numbers you make bigger, hence shopping and inventory management are RPG elements. essentialy emotional development represented by equipment development.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Makes sense. Though I'm still not entirely sure that Dead Space has enough of that to really qualify it as an RPG of any form. Hell, Cliffy B. has been saying that Gears of War 3 is going to have RPG lite elements in it, but I don't think anyone will be calling Gears 3 an RPG.

 

[JohnDoe]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Semantic, not somantic.

Anyway, the defining factor of a survival horror is the presence of a limited amount of resources and a fear/tension inducing setting, this is all it takes to be a survival horror.

Dead space 2 is a survival horror because you have limited resources, there is a shop function, but a shop is not a defining feature of rpgs (present in rts, action/adventure games and different types of simulators) and you only have a limited amount of money you can spend, while in rpgs you would be able to "farm"/"grind" items/money. DS1/2 do not have a character development system, and no, equipment and equipment upgrades don't count because they are not related directly to the character stats,the majority rts games have equipment upgrades.
I don't think i have to talk about the fear inducing setting, right?

The basic features a game needs to be predominantly in the rpg supercategory is:
1)A complex character development system, be it level based or not doesn't matter as long as the player can interact with it, any form of increment based on in-game actions is fine.
2)a set of rules for actions based on a statistic system that the player has a degree of control over.
3)the possibility to grind, if you can grind it can be a rpg, if you can't grind it can not, because the thing you do the most in rpgs is grind your mind into oblivion... (That was a joke btw...)

In ME1/2 the entire battle system is based on shooter game mechanic in opposition to a pure rpg that would have a turn based system, since battle is pretty much half the game it's hardly a minor detail.

Pure rpgs are direct descendants of tabletop rpgs, games like oblivion or mass effect are all hybrids, this doesn't mean that they are worse, just that they are not pure rpgs, because pure rpgs have a turn-based combat style, like Dragon age does for example.

There are many games that posses RPG features that are not predominant in the gameplay and those too are considered hybrids, the problem is not semantic here, the fact is that a lot of games rely on hybridization which makes it hard to categorize them, but that doesn't mean you can just stick them somewhere and be done with it. We must not forget that categorization is made of guidelines more than strict forms, my definition is simply less generic than yours.
Can it be considered an rpg? Sure.
Is it a "pure" rpg? No.

 

[Nunu]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

...

You seemed to miss the point of my argument, in fact would you care to give me the definition of semantic you are working under?

 

[JohnDoe]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

You seemed to miss the point of my argument, in fact would you care to give me the definition of semantic you are working under?

Semantic is the stupy of meaning, i'm not saying it doesn't matter here, everything is always about semantic, just saying it's not the main problem.
There are a lot of hybrid games out there, making it complicated to categorize them, as a result the semantic of the categories definition becomes more interpretation based and being generic becomes a fault. Your "by almost any defintion of the term" hit me as wrong because (well, it's not a term, joking here), the rpg supercategory is such a generic and wide enviroment that can be hardly defined in itself, as i already said when sticking to the literal interpretation "any game in which you play a role", but that would only cause chaos and semantic requires a degree of order to work, that's why i was including sub categories in the discussion that were previously ignored. I didn't want to see another idiotic discussion of rpg purists against fps/tps purists, cause nothing is either black or white.

 

[Nunu]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

my point was that this is an argument about semantics. I could attempt to debate the classification of what an RPG is but we would not even begin to approach anyhting close to a concrete definition. the solution is to aproach this in a non-academic fashion, and use the word as an approximation with reference to common use, in essence as a form of communication. instead of clarifying your genre usage, you should address these things on a case by case basis because there are to many exceptions to ever rule.

 

[noman]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I just can't get myself to play Dead Space at all. I guess I am just a chicken, but I don't like scary things in general. I couldn't even finish STALKER. Can't stand scary movies either (not the Scary Movie).

I don't understand why people like to be scared. Is it because of the adrenaline rush?

 

[velvet.velour]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I just can't get myself to play Dead Space at all. I guess I am just a chicken, but I don't like scary things in general. I couldn't even finish STALKER. Can't stand scary movies either (not the Scary Movie).

I don't understand why people like to be scared. Is it because of the adrenaline rush?

For me, definitely. Nothing else I play is very exciting, but a scary game can get my heart going. It takes a lot more skill, in the vein of having to control yourself in a situation where you aren't thinking as clearly.

And I agree with you, sin. Way back before the walls of text over what makes an RPG an RPG. Usually you can tell the tone of what's being said with each option. The choices themselves are like previews, then you see your character convey the idea you chose.