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(Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)


Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

All things considered, we've had startling few bugs on our end, at least as far as I have been around for, and nearly all of them have come with a SC apology regardless of how impactful the bug was. I'm not sure why getting a stable working game is such a burden on everyone that they need to find things to complain about when english aigis isn't as pretty as her sister.

You realize that's a bad thing right? DMM version gets tiny, insignificant bugs that affect less than 1% of their players relatively often, but everyone gets a Sacred Crystal for every one of those. One time, for a "major" bug, they even gave out a free Time Fairy to every player.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Where's your proof?

Do you have any idea how game development works?

They could be working on one project or seventeen on their end and it all looks the same to us until they release something. This complete myth that not seeing content means they aren't working on it is so completely ridiculous it's insane. Patreon creators are encouraged to and should be transparent. Professional game developers often shouldn't.

Until they have a beta-ready product, being transparent about your process often will either harm you or not help you. Because as with any venture, there are many ideas that simply are not ever going to make it in. At least if you aren't transparent in this culling phase, you don't have players going "But where is the x you *promised us back on day z?"

*Almost never actually promised, still taken as a bloodsworn oath by fans anyways.

The six-week break fiasco was more than enough proof, really. We had to beg for autocomplete. Twice. If it wasn't for the banner, it'd look like history was repeating itself with Awakening.

(also I'm pretty sure Daverost used to work at EA, so good job with the failed rhetorical question)
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

for example, how we've gotten autocomplete or the newer paralysis mechanic
If anything, these are indication that they are indeed just copypasting code from current branch of DMM instead writing it from scratch for nutaku branch.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

If anything, these are indication that they are indeed just copypasting code from current branch of DMM instead writing it from scratch for nutaku branch.

Yeah, I was going to mention, it's more telling that we're getting bits and pieces of random updates instead of whole updates at once.

Hell, we got stuff like the x2 speed toggle and continuous combine before autocomplete. And then we're still missing stuff like witch buffs.

Not to mention the units. Mikoto is the updated version, but Len and Lynn are still their old nerfed selves?

I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting or confusing.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

You realize that's a bad thing right? DMM version gets tiny, insignificant bugs that affect less than 1% of their players relatively often, but everyone gets a Sacred Crystal for every one of those. One time, for a "major" bug, they even gave out a free Time Fairy to every player.

I understand the core of your argument, but you're basically saying that being the second child sucks because we don't get ice cream as often as the first one did whenever the parents screwed up and wanted to make it up to them. Even if we're getting significantly less ice cream (and yes, feel free to beat the dead horse that is DMM-only apology crystals for the major break) we are getting generally better service. I think it's pretty silly to expect both, and similarly silly to think a competent professional programmer would intentionally overlook a known and reported bug just so that we can get a "reward" from it later.

Your complaint boils down to english aigis has too many competent programmers therefore we aren't getting as many bugs as DMM and thereby fewer apology crystals. Am I the only one who sees competency as a good thing?

The six-week break fiasco was more than enough proof, really. We had to beg for autocomplete. Twice. If it wasn't for the banner, it'd look like history was repeating itself with Awakening.

(also I'm pretty sure Daverost used to work at EA, so good job with the failed rhetorical question)

The six-week break fiasco had to do with technical problems, not developer laziness. They sidetracked content to address core problems with their game's stability. That's a good policy to have. Adding content on top of problems never makes those problems easier to solve.

How did my rhetorical question fail?

The first assumption being made is that EA is an expert at the process of game development which I find amusing but let's leave that aside for now.

The purpose of my question was calling into question his understanding of game development for him to link english aigis developers' failure to meet his "no expectations" by doing "literally nothing". Maybe doing literally nothing is the work ethic over at EA, but I've seen no proof to indicate that's the work ethic of the english aigis development team.

It's the same with your flawed "begging" argument. We've been begging for DMM features for a long time, our begging does not necessarily mean that they get completed any faster. Do you believe that game features are developed faster the more you beg for them? Do you believe that other features we want like awakening or more story missions haven't come to us yet because we haven't begged hard enough?

Do you honestly believe we got autocomplete because we begged sufficiently hard enough?

If anything, these are indication that they are indeed just copypasting code from current branch of DMM instead writing it from scratch for nutaku branch.

We are getting the more recent code. 9/10 times that is a good thing. I understand it's not "fair" if we are not getting *all* of the updated code together, but it's silly to expect we get all new code all at once when we have multiple years of difference to bridge.



I read all sorts of complaints that boil down to 2 core issues.

1) The English Aigis Development team is competent. They have the experience of the DMM aigis behind them and give us a version of that which has fewer bugs (and fewer apology crystals). I know we all love free crystals, but that's no reason to hate competency.

2) English Aigis is not as good or cool as DMM Aigis. Okay. It probably never will be. It may never make as much money as DMM Aigis does, either. If you can't wrap your head around this, maybe you should go play DMM Aigis. If you can, maybe you should stop making impossible comparisons between the two. Before any comparisons are drawn, I'd like to know the size of each development team.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

The six-week break fiasco had to do with technical problems, not developer laziness. They sidetracked content to address core problems with their game's stability. That's a good policy to have. Adding content on top of problems never makes those problems easier to solve.

How did my rhetorical question fail?

The first assumption being made is that EA is an expert at the process of game development which I find amusing but let's leave that aside for now.

The purpose of my question was calling into question his understanding of game development for him to link english aigis developers' failure to meet his "no expectations" by doing "literally nothing". Maybe doing literally nothing is the work ethic over at EA, but I've seen no proof to indicate that's the work ethic of the english aigis development team.

It's the same with your flawed "begging" argument. We've been begging for DMM features for a long time, our begging does not necessarily mean that they get completed any faster. Do you believe that game features are developed faster the more you beg for them? Do you believe that other features we want like awakening or more story missions haven't come to us yet because we haven't begged hard enough?

Do you honestly believe we got autocomplete because we begged sufficiently hard enough?



We are getting the more recent code. 9/10 times that is a good thing. I understand it's not "fair" if we are not getting *all* of the updated code together, but it's silly to expect we get all new code all at once when we have multiple years of difference to bridge.



I read all sorts of complaints that boil down to 2 core issues.

1) The English Aigis Development team is competent. They have the experience of the DMM aigis behind them and give us a version of that which has fewer bugs (and fewer apology crystals). I know we all love free crystals, but that's no reason to hate competency.

2) English Aigis is not as good or cool as DMM Aigis. Okay. It probably never will be. It may never make as much money as DMM Aigis does, either. If you can't wrap your head around this, maybe you should go play DMM Aigis. If you can, maybe you should stop making impossible comparisons between the two. Before any comparisons are drawn, I'd like to know the size of each development team.

Except there was the whole thing about DMM's server being done in a fraction of the time that it took for them to "fix" our version. I don't know how you can excuse the fact that DMM basically didn't grind to a halt at all, while we had SIX WEEKS of nothing.

You asked about game development process, not competence. Don't shift goalposts. I'm pretty sure he's somewhat familiar with the development/coding process (or at least I hear enough while we're exchanging stories about incompetent coworkers in chat).

And yes, actually. NutakuDev himself said he submitted the request for autocomplete on our behalf. Twice. I don't see how you can deny that. Now, nobody asked for level 300 (fairly pointless when the number of people who were near/at 200 were probably in the single digits, myself included at the time), or the goddess buff updates (which at the time was also useless because we had no events to use them on), or barracks (... this was a welcome addition for a hoarder like me, at least).

And also the more mundane updates like the x2 speed toggle or the continuous combine thing, but we got them. Before autocomplete (sans level 300/barracks, which came at the same time as autocomplete, IIRC). Despite the fact that they came after autocomplete in DMM. How does that sound like a proper update schedule to you?

Meanwhile, for breaks, all we get are updated spotlights of pre-existing units. I highly doubt it takes a lot of time to change those. If they are "giving" us updated code and not just throwing us random pieces from a dartboard, then why don't they take the time to add more features? This goes along with why these breaks have even been needed in general. Nobody (that matters) wants to go back to the event-break-event schedule. Why don't we ever get anything to do in the meantime?
 
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Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Except there was the whole thing about DMM's server being done in a fraction of the time that it took for them to "fix" our version. I don't know how you can excuse the fact that DMM basically didn't grind to a halt at all, while we had SIX WEEKS of nothing.

You asked about game development process, not competence. Don't shift goalposts. I'm pretty sure he's somewhat familiar with the development/coding process (or at least I hear enough while we're exchanging stories about incompetent coworkers in chat).

And yes, actually. NutakuDev himself said he submitted the request for autocomplete on our behalf. Twice. I don't see how you can deny that. Now, nobody asked for level 300 (fairly pointless when the number of people who were near/at 200 were probably in the single digits, myself included at the time), or the goddess buff updates (which at the time was also useless because we had no events to use them on), or barracks (... this was a welcome addition for a hoarder like me, at least).

And also the more mundane updates like the x2 speed toggle or the continuous combine thing, but we got them. Before autocomplete (sans level 300/barracks, which came at the same time as autocomplete, IIRC). Despite the fact that they came after autocomplete in DMM. How does that sound like a proper update schedule to you?

Meanwhile, for breaks, all we get are updated spotlights of pre-existing units. I highly doubt it takes a lot of time to change those. If they are "giving" us updated code and not just throwing us random pieces from a dartboard, then why don't they take the time to add more features? This goes along with why these breaks have even been needed in general. Nobody (that matters) wants to go back to the event-break-event schedule. Why don't we ever get anything to do in the meantime?

I can address this entire post by repeating the last line that you quoted yourself.

Before any comparisons are drawn, I'd like to know the size of each development team.

Why does everyone expect to get the exact same things DMM got in the same order they got them? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we got Gold Rush 1 first. It gives me hope that we'll see all the gold rushes eventually, but if we get Gold Rush 3 next I'm not going to abandon all hope of ever seeing Gold Rush 2. It might be less likely, but it's far from impossible.

This all boils down to point 2. Maybe try reading that whole paragraph again, let it sink in, then get back to me. Or, you know, keep repeating the same stuff over and over with different references until you think the development team can hear you and magically decides it's time for awakening because the beg counter hit 10,000.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Blacksheep I think you're grasping really hard to try and defend English Aigis when there have been some very clear undeniable problems. There is no excuse for why the 6 week break happened when DMM got the issue fixed exponentially faster. There's no excuse for why we continue to get breaks when DMM goes every week without problem. The missing events, units, balance changes, awakening, etc, the list is endless. There's absolutely no communication from the developers or Nutaku for these issues. That is the problem and that is why people are complaining. English Aigis is not consistent, and when you look over the fence at your neighbor DMM and see them running like clockwork you start wondering why you're on this side of the fence.

Personally in only 2 weeks on DMM, I've already got a few CCed units, and am up to Castle Retake. Bashing my head against it as my units are where they need to be yet, but it's been fun starting from scratch. And I've been able to partake in the multiple events with my low level units, it's a nice experience.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I can address this entire post by repeating the last line that you quoted yourself.

Before any comparisons are drawn, I'd like to know the size of each development team.

Why does everyone expect to get the exact same things DMM got in the same order they got them? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we got Gold Rush 1 first. It gives me hope that we'll see all the gold rushes eventually, but if we get Gold Rush 3 next I'm not going to abandon all hope of ever seeing Gold Rush 2. It might be less likely, but it's far from impossible.

This all boils down to point 2. Maybe try reading that whole paragraph again, let it sink in, then get back to me. Or, you know, keep repeating the same stuff over and over with different references until you think the development team can hear you and magically decides it's time for awakening because the beg counter hit 10,000.

You're the one that's shifting goalposts, I'm just answering your questions as I see them.

I hardly think the size of the dev team is a relevant question, since it doesn't explain why we get things in a random order, if at all, or the general lack of consistency in updates. But to answer your question, all we know is that it's "small, but growing." But their existence has always more or less been an enigma because they never communicate to us (or apparently Nutaku) directly.

Now, all that tells us is that we get updates slower. Obviously. Now, why do we skip around? Why do we have "parts" of code for some characters/features and not others? If the team is so "great" that we rarely get any bugs, you'd think some bloody consistency is important. You say the reason we don't get compensated a lot is because there isn't a lot to fix. I say we don't get compensated a lot because the potential amount that would need fixing is low and inconsistent to begin with, aka content starvation.
 
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Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Personally in only 2 weeks on DMM, I've already got a few CCed units, and am up to Castle Retake. Bashing my head against it as my units are where they need to be yet, but it's been fun starting from scratch. And I've been able to partake in the multiple events with my low level units, it's a nice experience.

Others have said the same when going to where the grass is greener.
My only curiosity at this point is a long time ago I once suggested that we be put on the same release as DMM (same build same events as they occur).
Now for a few events it would be a given we wouldn't have the units to defeat current events. Needless to say, that idea was harshly discounted, with a few other choice words thrown my way because of it.

My question is now, after a year and it's come full circle, many of the events we missed have come and gone in DMM as revivals (not all but many), do people still think the idea is so bad now?


Personally, as I stated then, I'd rather be unable to do a few events then keep what we have as is. Not my call obviously, but if I had a choice ....
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I understand the core of your argument, but you're basically saying that being the second child sucks because we don't get ice cream as often as the first one did whenever the parents screwed up and wanted to make it up to them. Even if we're getting significantly less ice cream (and yes, feel free to beat the dead horse that is DMM-only apology crystals for the major break) we are getting generally better service. I think it's pretty silly to expect both, and similarly silly to think a competent professional programmer would intentionally overlook a known and reported bug just so that we can get a "reward" from it later.

Your complaint boils down to english aigis has too many competent programmers therefore we aren't getting as many bugs as DMM and thereby fewer apology crystals. Am I the only one who sees competency as a good thing?

Your understanding is flawed, I'm stating that bugs are a non-issue on the DMM side as compensation is always more than adequate for them and there's been very little said about that on the Nutaku version. People don't feel much of anything about the lack of bugs, which is a good thing, at least they're not complaining. But if you actually want to bring that issue up, bugs+compensation>no bugs+no compensation, because they affect only a tiny fraction of the player base and the compensations are always better than the issue.

And... I really don't think you can call what we're getting right now as "better service". :rolleyes: Unless you're talking an unchanging game having no new bugs, then I guess it's alright.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Stop it guys
He is an undercover agent
Even Lafate atleast still fair in judgement
But this guy here
Well..... You know the answer
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Others have said the same when going to where the grass is greener.
My only curiosity at this point is a long time ago I once suggested that we be put on the same release as DMM (same build same events as they occur).
Now for a few events it would be a given we wouldn't have the units to defeat current events. Needless to say, that idea was harshly discounted, with a few other choice words thrown my way because of it.

My question is now, after a year and it's come full circle, many of the events we missed have come and gone in DMM as revivals (not all but many), do people still think the idea is so bad now?


Personally, as I stated then, I'd rather be unable to do a few events then keep what we have as is. Not my call obviously, but if I had a choice ....

I don't think many people are asking us to warp to what DMM has right now. It's as you say, very few people would be able to even clear current events as they require high level units and are tuned to awakened units and years of event units.

I think all people are asking for mainly is that we get the missing units that are very desired, whether due to balance purposes, variety, increase the harem, lover of lolis, etc and that we maintain an event schedule similar to DMM, meaning no breaks.

I think another thing people are asking for is equivalent compensation, as noted DMM Aigis gets free SC constantly, they got a huge SC reward for that one bug that cost us 6 weeks of downtime, they got 13 free SC for clearing Gold Rush 1, we got nothing. The list goes on.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Others have said the same when going to where the grass is greener.
My only curiosity at this point is a long time ago I once suggested that we be put on the same release as DMM (same build same events as they occur).
Now for a few events it would be a given we wouldn't have the units to defeat current events. Needless to say, that idea was harshly discounted, with a few other choice words thrown my way because of it.

My question is now, after a year and it's come full circle, many of the events we missed have come and gone in DMM as revivals (not all but many), do people still think the idea is so bad now?


Personally, as I stated then, I'd rather be unable to do a few events then keep what we have as is. Not my call obviously, but if I had a choice ....

Opinions would be split, some like Larcx would probably be fine with it, seeing as he jumped over to the DMM version. In razisgosu's case, he doesn't seem too sure about things and a bit wary of this idea. For some like me that came from DMM, experiencing the game from the beginning and playing the Events I've missed is what I'm here for.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I'll take that as a no then.

For Your question I'm gonna say yes

BUT , to be fair! They should give us several compensation
Atleast 20-30 SC (Jap got 60 anyway) , Several AW orb , Several DC maybe 300
So we can atleast AW 3 unit by those free give away in day 1
Also 7 SC buff for 5-10 days

Then My question
Can they do it??

Or I will just make it easy for You and the dev
GIVE US FUCKING 60 SC
AND I DONT CARE IF THE AW IS HERE RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!!
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

Blacksheep I think you're grasping really hard to try and defend English Aigis when there have been some very clear undeniable problems. There is no excuse for why the 6 week break happened when DMM got the issue fixed exponentially faster. There's no excuse for why we continue to get breaks when DMM goes every week without problem. The missing events, units, balance changes, awakening, etc, the list is endless. There's absolutely no communication from the developers or Nutaku for these issues. That is the problem and that is why people are complaining. English Aigis is not consistent, and when you look over the fence at your neighbor DMM and see them running like clockwork you start wondering why you're on this side of the fence.

Personally in only 2 weeks on DMM, I've already got a few CCed units, and am up to Castle Retake. Bashing my head against it as my units are where they need to be yet, but it's been fun starting from scratch. And I've been able to partake in the multiple events with my low level units, it's a nice experience.

This "no excuse" theory of your's only holds if their development teams are the same size. I'd bet money that the english aigis team is a fraction of the size of DMM aigis.

I'm not suggesting that they require the same sized team to meet the goals they have set for themselves, but that it's absolutely crazy to expect the same performance from them as you should expect from the DMM aigis team. And their goals may not be the exact same as your's, or DMM's, and this idea that they should may or may not ever line up with reality. In theory, english aigis can be as good a game as DMM aigis. It can even be better.

In reality, I hold doubts that it will ever be so outrageously successful that it will merit the resources necessary to make that possibility come true. In the meantime, we simply have the resources that we have, and I haven't found them to be so unsatisfactory to line up with the discontent I see.

Imagine for a moment that DMM Aigis does not exist. I see one blemish on english aigis track record, which is the six-week break. That sucked, but they had a good reason for it. I'm not cynical enough to believe that the entire team took a five week holiday then came back and implemented DMM's fix to the core problem.

Now, even without the comparison to DMM, some compensation could and should have been in order - BUT - we had zero service interruption also. Even if the game was "boring" you were still able to play it.

It just feels like I am not playing the same game as the rest of you. English Aigis is fun, playable, and has a history of providing interesting (if not always challenging) events alongside some pretty decent functionality and content updates. It's given me no indication that either will halt over a one-week break or two. Does this make me a secret agent?

I don't know, I thought it just meant I could recognize a good game when I saw one and a decent dev team doing a decent job. Both the game and dev team aren't perfect, but I'm not following this disconnect from "good" to "absolutely no excuse for this".

If you want to advertise the DMM version because it's better, be my guest. If you want to advocate for a larger english dev team, I'm in full support. If you're looking to lay blame on Nutaku (who is mostly powerless) or the dev team we have now because english aigis isn't living up to your standards of a much more successful game, I feel you're being a tad unreasonable. Even if they were equally successful, the buck falls on the aigis developers who own the IP as to what they decide to do with it.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I'm not necessarily wary about the idea, but I'd be upset about missing the tons of event units if that warp happened. I started DMM in May and I know I missed a small handful of event units prior to that. I missed Bellinda, Anya/Aria, Echidna, Maribel, and was only able to get a fairly weak Vampire Karma. Everything after that I have.

While it's true I've started playing DMM, it's mainly due to my displeasure with English Aigis at this time. I don't intend on quitting English Aigis, but my desire to dump any money into it right now is next to nothing.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

My bad then, seems I misunderstood.

Not much opposition to Xovian's idea so far it seems.
 
Re: (Nutaku) Milenium War Aigis (English Version)

I'm not necessarily wary about the idea, but I'd be upset about missing the tons of event units if that warp happened. I started DMM in May and I know I missed a small handful of event units prior to that. I missed Bellinda, Anya/Aria, Echidna, Maribel, and was only able to get a fairly weak Vampire Karma. Everything after that I have.

While it's true I've started playing DMM, it's mainly due to my displeasure with English Aigis at this time. I don't intend on quitting English Aigis, but my desire to dump any money into it right now is next to nothing.

Karma Anya and any other girl before are one of the best
But missing them is not really a major problem
The game is nicely design as having any other unit will close the hole
But If You ask Me whether I want them or not , of course I'm gonna answer YES PLEASE!!

But one of the game interesting feature is event
And without it , this game will be trash. Do You want to click AC for 10 minute?

And I understand people want to play it for their missing unit of DMM
But at this slow pace with constant break??

What is the good of having 5-10 black on your team when You only click AC?

I've played Risk Your Life years a go in My country official server
And I'm having fun PK ing lots of people
And very2 exciting even when I got PK'ed instead
But then the players decline , eventually the game closed

So I really seek this exciting feeling
Which... I don't get it with these F-ing break.....

If they decided to jump us to current event
I won't mind , there will be revivals anyway
And those F-ers who always said , the dev is decided it for us anyway. Let just be happy about it
If the dev jump us , those F-ers will be happy too right???
 
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