Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Well the opposite is that nobody can sneak through a camp because someone will always see/hear you. An assassin can never slip poison in a drink in a crowded court cus someone will always see them do it. A sniper can't set up because someone will always see their position. Before they fire I mean.

You can't pickpocket in a crowd, someone always sees you. You do stage magic, someone always sees the trick. And so on.

It's especially unfair for pcs cus dms will usually handwave if it suits their plots, but pcs don't automatically get to have that pass. I wouldn't expect a dm to roll for every plot point they wanna set up in advance but they also should try to weigh it fairly then.

Plus it favors spellcasters more since they often don't need to make skillchecks to get the same results. They just do a spell and skip the need.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Combat rolls and skill checks are different things. I'd agree that a stealth roll against a mob of mooks is acceptable. It fits a narrative.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

These matters are more complicated, and while I agree with you, after due consideration, there is a substantial difference in your examples and mine.

Stealth doesn't attract attention, equaling skill checks. It tries not to.

A bluff check on the other hand, does, often enough. Now you could argue that as soon as one dude believes it, the rest will too, boy who cried wolf style and all that, but these things are more nuanced than that., as is the stealth.:

Lets go with the poisoning the drink example, I think thats a good one.

If the asssaine waits until everyone is chatting it up, theres one or two checks at a bonus for them. If however the assasine were to try and poison it whilest the emperor is holding a speech, that'd be a LOT of checks, and a near guaranteed fail.

In this instance, the bluff that I'm presented with by Tenta is designed to attract attention and, lacking roleplay description, my best assumption is that its like a general address at whoever is near. In this case rolling at the very least a couple of checks strikes me as more than fair, you follow?

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Stealth is opposed by perception. The opposed roll is whether you are seen or not. If everyone rolls, you are going to be seen. Stealth is not like disguise which says you only get opposed rolls if they are actively scrutinizing you. If you are rolling stealth, everyone get's a check. Even if they can;t see you, since they might hear you. Though after a certain distance penalties become so large as to be impossible. That's why I get concerned about many checks.

Now on the matter of the crowd, it;s the reason I use whomever has the best chances. Well unless there is unique people in a group. For example if there's a crowd and the DICK is in there and maybe the guard captain, I might roll whoever has the best perception amidst the crowd, then one for the DICK and the Guard captain. I might roll for the guards as a group too. It depends a bit on the situation.

I'll agree Kiyomi's bluff doesn't make the most sense though. The idea is to get Sekla's attention, which I figure is along the lines of Convey Secret Message. Being that loud and... Weird about it... Well I won;t be too off about a few rolls in this case, yeah. Though I might do the seperate groups, it saves on a ton of rolling the same dice over and over.

Oh and on the assassin thing, I'd probably track that via a circumstance bonus or penalty personally rather than more rolls. Still, there's other factors. Like one of those trick rings might be in use, or other less obvious transfer methods. I mean, after a certain point someone is just good enough that they should be able to pull off extraordinary feats of stealth and legerdemain and should be allowed to make use of it after all. Same with other skills. It;s one of my pet peeves with pathfinder that realism is applied subjectively and it seems like it only exists to make those who dare to use skills instead of spells feel like that they're investing more to do less.

Generally the bigger problem with stealth and lot's of eyes is finding cover or concealment to use rather than rolls. More eyes means more likely there is less cover to make use of to hide. It can force creative measures to get by or to make use of the Bluff skill to create distractions like tossing rocks and such or something more obvious.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

I've given a regrettably small response letting Yan Yenna and Sekla meet. Kiyomi can come too if things make more sense, but I want this to pick up a bit.. not saying we have to do daily posts, but at least a good weekly pace to keep this alive and going.

As for the rolls thingie.. all I can say is, to each their own, I don't think we fundamentally disagree.

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

No, I don't think we do. That;s why I said this is how I do it. I find it works out usually, giving the chance of failure in a fair method, if the chance of them failing even exists if they're good enough. Sometimes pcs are just too effective at something to fail. Particularily on certain skills that have flat dcs like Heal usually.

Oh, does Sekla have to make the will save too? You didn;t say but it seemed like the bard was amping up so I was wondering if I jsut was missed.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

No, I don't think we do. That;s why I said this is how I do it. I find it works out usually, giving the chance of failure in a fair method, if the chance of them failing even exists if they're good enough. Sometimes pcs are just too effective at something to fail. Particularily on certain skills that have flat dcs like Heal usually.

Oh, does Sekla have to make the will save too? You didn;t say but it seemed like the bard was amping up so I was wondering if I jsut was missed.

You already saved.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

So is this a time where Countersong is appropriate? I feel like that would be a sure fire way to have Yenna be spotted. Is Yan still feeling the effects of the clothes she was wearing from the shop or have they gone once she removed the clothing?

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Well it'll get Sekla's attention for sure heh.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

So is this a time where Countersong is appropriate? I feel like that would be a sure fire way to have Yenna be spotted. Is Yan still feeling the effects of the clothes she was wearing from the shop or have they gone once she removed the clothing?

Still feeling the effects, as for being spotted.. sure, but.. you just have to countersong it up right.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

-_______-;;

Priority is to not get captured and brainwashed. The goal is happy sex with Corgana.

I mean... normal ditzy slaves aren't going to know bardic magic. So the bard is either a rebel or part of the Dicks plan. From the tune of the song, I'm imagining she's not friendly.

Therefore, even tho Yan can counter her, it's not the smart thing to do. She'll just keep looking for Sekla. Then hopefully just get away.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Aand that was the right decision.

The bard is just a bard, an entertainer with some gentle enslaving magic on top, but drawing attention to yourself by countering a mostly harmless effect that Sekla already resisted wouldn't be helpful here.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Letting Yenna get a say in too before we get to the attackings.

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Makes sense. Sekla's thrilled to talk shop.

And kinda wants to give Sangria a hug.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Sangria acts like an ass but she might not have had the best childhood as rebel among the bimbos..

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

Oh Sekla has no doubt. Definitely wants to give hugs. She's just hesitant for a few reasons. She sorta figures hugs might be taken the wrong way after the experience around here. Plus given general local attitudes, she might brush against Sekla's endowment and get the wrong idea.

Also Sekla still doesn't know she's been tossed forward in time, still thinks they're just on another continent or something haha.

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

The time skip will become more evident in due time.

 

[Zilrax]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

I'm still curious to see all the hobgoblin/kobold descendants and what they might look like. Maybe they're just hermy lizardfolk .

 

[Pervy]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

I can sing a little and go to town on her with my whip if need be

Damn it, Sangria can't make the jokes...

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: Overquest - What if the good guys had already lost?

If you have a problem, you must whip it. Whip it good.