Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread
*tosses in the two copper*
I think looking into what XSI and Blue have said might actually help with Hope's issue but at the same time, I think it's the role of the GM to also look with what they have to work with (the players personalities and their classes) and work alongside the players to craft a good game.
I've gotten away from the notion that the party must have one fighter-type, one healer-type, one rogue-type, and one caster-type. If the party is coherent, then they can overcome obstacles with the application of problem-solving skills. Think the corridor is trapped but don't have a rogue to check? Summon a minion and send it down the hall. Use the fighter to throw a rock onto that spot that looks shifty. However, I do agree that while certain spells do make things easier, they are not the end all, be all. A cleric's detect traps only tells you "Hey, there's a trap." You might be able to infer what sort of trap from where it is, but it doesn't get rid of it for you, it just lets you know that there's a trap there. For that you need a rogue. (Or a minion.)
That's not to say that you can't have a mage who applies their spells in a thief-like manner. Fly to move silently, climb walls, etc. Knock to pick locks. Invisibility for stealth. That's where the flavor of characters come in and no one should be told the character they craft is wrong simply because it doesn't fit the normal standards. That's where the GM comes in. You have your magey-thief. You have a fighter that wants to be a pugilist. You work with the players and see how best to integrate them into the story you want to craft. If something really really isn't going to work, then you explain why and work with the player to come up with something else but then maybe find a way for them to bring the original character into the game later or into a different game.
Unless you're running a module/adventure path that doesn't readily allow for leeway, look at what you have and don't be afraid to adapt. I *hate* DMs that think they're playing *against* the players. Yes, they are supposed to throw obstacles and antagonists in the way, but I feel those are there to be a challenge, not your way of winning. Yes, player death can happen, but I would rather it be because of bad dice and poor choices than being put into a situation where the DM expects you to lose. (I've been there.)
Consequently, I also think it's up to the GM to give all of the members of the party a chance to feel useful. It doesn't have to be all the time, but catering to the players that want the limelight (been there, too.) and ignoring everyone else that just don't quite fit into your grand vision of things (yup, there, too.) makes people not want to play. Neither does nepotism, but that's a different rant entirely. Was in a game where if you weren't playing a paladin, cleric, or follower of this one particular god, you might as well have not been there for all the DM cared to pay attention to you. There was no role-play, outside of interacting with the church and the priests, and half of the party got ignored whenever the paladins were around. No side plots, no personal quests, and if you did have them, they were short and not nearly as in-depth as the "grand vision." I should not feel like I have to play something I don't want to just to get face time in a game.
Touching on the min/max thing, given the way I run and play my games, I've given up on that. I put stats in things that are part of the character, even if they're not necessarily going to get me an advantage. Like the fact that my Hunter has crafting. It's because she's a 19 year old girl who likes to build dollhouses. Is that ever going to help me when I'm facing down a werewolf? Probably not. But it's part of what makes Ruby who she is. Players shouldn't feel like they have to sacrifice the soul of the character just to avoid dying. Then again, in both my WW and D&D sessions, we go literally weeks without pulling out the dice, or if we do, it's for perception checks or little things that help the story along. Role, not roll. Granted that doesn't work for everybody, but if you're not worried about your stats, then you can have a better time with your character, at least that's how I see it. Also encourages players to think about each other and their resources rather than to want to try and do everything themselves.