RPG RPG Maker Vore Loli Shota [Toro Toro Resistance] もんむす・くえすと! ぱらどっくすRPG中章 / Monster Girl Quest: Paradox (RJ201109)

[4lurk3r]

The Japanese wikis I'm using are

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and

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.

The former has articles on the OG trilogy as well as Paradox, while the latter only has Paradox articles; I'm not sure on the differences between the two, or which one is the better-updated one. Just as a reminder, both sites are completely in Japanese, so get a translator and/or a dictionary ready.

 

[Yilin]

So, story questions/discussion/theory-throwing.

The Black Alice that is vying for the throne from Paradox1, which timeline is this Black Alice from?

Spoiler

The original timeline Black Alice became the Goddess of Chaos (a unique entity specific to the Paradox timeline) and caused the Great Disaster after being summoned into Paradox's Remina.

Alicetromeria is Paradox's BAlice from 500 years ago.

And I originally thought the vying BAlice is Paradox's BAlice in the present, where Paradox's Ilias still saved her 500 years ago. However, I'm replaying Paradox1 on Alice route and at the puppeteer's tower, she states that she has lost to Luka with the White Rabbit serum before, meaning she must be from the original timeline (or a close approximation of) where she used White Rabbit. But that contradicts the Goddess of Creation...

Rewatching the end of Paradox2 on Ilias Route, seems like the mystery is the period of time in the true timeline, between our Ilias being sealed and Final Boss Ilias dying to Luka.

 

[Syrath]

I have more or less two running theories regarding that Black Alice.

Spoiler

1. She's still the Goddess of Chaos Black Alice from the original timeline, just taking a form that doesn't raise as many alarm bells. Doesn't really make sense since she wouldn't have any ambition to be meddling about when the entire game's crisis is already what she wants, but it requires the least speculation.

2. She's a Black Alice from one of the other worlds. While the known Angel and Succubus' worlds don't really fit her being around, there's still the mystery of Nero and Neris's original world (and I think we all know who they are), where Black Alice could have originated from. Considering those two's existence, the White Rabbit serum statement is still consistent.

There's always the chance she's just an entirely unestablished factor we've heard nothing relevant to in the story thus far, but I feel like Paradox has been pretty good on not throwing curveballs that haven't been foreshadowed thus far.

 

[Green Thoughts]

So, story questions/discussion/theory-throwing.

The Black Alice that is vying for the throne from Paradox1, which timeline is this Black Alice from?

Spoiler

The original timeline Black Alice became the Goddess of Chaos (a unique entity specific to the Paradox timeline) and caused the Great Disaster after being summoned into Paradox's Remina.

Alicetromeria is Paradox's BAlice from 500 years ago.

And I originally thought the vying BAlice is Paradox's BAlice in the present, where Paradox's Ilias still saved her 500 years ago. However, I'm replaying Paradox1 on Alice route and at the puppeteer's tower, she states that she has lost to Luka with the White Rabbit serum before, meaning she must be from the original timeline (or a close approximation of) where she used White Rabbit. But that contradicts the Goddess of Creation...

Rewatching the end of Paradox2 on Ilias Route, seems like the mystery is the period of time in the true timeline, between our Ilias being sealed and Final Boss Ilias dying to Luka.

Spoiler

My guess is that she's the Black Alice of the Paradox world, who's still unaccounted for. With Ilias being stuck in the Ilias Temple Ruins, Black Alice would be free to do as she wishes. The White Rabbit thing seems to contradict this, but not necessarily. Remember that Alicetroemeria knows about the true history and that Heinrich is supposed to kill her. Perhaps one Black Alice becoming the Goddess of Chaos means that all versions of her share some of their knowledge.

I have more or less two running theories regarding that Black Alice.

Spoiler

1. She's still the Goddess of Chaos Black Alice from the original timeline, just taking a form that doesn't raise as many alarm bells. Doesn't really make sense since she wouldn't have any ambition to be meddling about when the entire game's crisis is already what she wants, but it requires the least speculation.

2. She's a Black Alice from one of the other worlds. While the known Angel and Succubus' worlds don't really fit her being around, there's still the mystery of Nero and Neris's original world (and I think we all know who they are), where Black Alice could have originated from. Considering those two's existence, the White Rabbit serum statement is still consistent.

There's always the chance she's just an entirely unestablished factor we've heard nothing relevant to in the story thus far, but I feel like Paradox has been pretty good on not throwing curveballs that haven't been foreshadowed thus far.

Spoiler

Nero and Neris are probably from the original timeline.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Spoiler

First, the tl;dr of this "Game Theory": BAlice tried to say "nope" to Luka via time shenanigans, messed everything up. Time said "system restore", currently trying to merge two saves.

BAlice was only sealed in the original trilogy. She probably came back from that with a bad hangover and noticing nobody was in charge in Heaven and the Angel's were fucking around on Earth. Imagine if you were her: now the most powerful being in existence, but the Hero who sealed you is still around. You know from experience that directly challenging him is a bad idea, so you get an idea. Delete him from existence via time shenanigans. Maybe you try to bring back Minagi to distract him and the Monster Lord just to be sure, and then go about your business. Well, except there's an issue. A pretty damn big one.

The previous boss had a bad habit of undoing the "bad ends" the Hero experienced. While Luka wasn't aware of these events and thusly had no idea what awaited him, you now do. And it normally would create an opportunity for you, except it doesn't. Why not? Because each "bad end" has the Monster Lord sitting nearby. She might be inclined to either help the Hero escape his situation, or simply amass power another way. You even tested this, intervening to ensure the "undo" function was removed. Things got pretty bad, so you put those outcomes aside. You have a new plan, now, though: Go back far enough that you prevent the Hero from ever starting his quest.

Here's the problem: The events that caused you to become the new God of Chaos are also the same events that led to this situation. You try your hand at that, realize it's a bad idea, try to press "undo" without knowing how, and then realize too late that every instance of "undo" and "continue" were futzed. You're panicking, cause things are now out of your control. Then, you hear a "bang" somewhere and turn to look. You witness a big hole opening in your "he never moved out of mum's basement" route and panic even more. Out from that hole come nightmarish beings you saw only once before, as a result of Illias "corrupting" both hers and your race into a single abomination. You panic, try to fix it, only to make it worse. Then, the Hero shows up, tries to clean things up, and fails. You panic until "panic" is the expression you're permanently fixed with.

The Hero, knowing he's outmatched and on the losing end, decides to try and bring your old fling, Heinrich. You tell him that it's a bad idea, but he only listens after things go further south than incest. You both panic, but he's the cooler among you. He sets things up to where he'll exist, have an out, and even a "childhood friend" that helps guide him down the right path. He even tries to restore the old boss as a failsafe, except he can't do it 100% because what remains is very little of her full power, if that. You, meanwhile, go into hiding and waiting for things to not be shit. The Hero gets the party started, and then reverses events so he can start a new save file.

Except, rather than just one, he's creating two and trying to merge the saves. One of those saves has the old boss, except she remembers everything from before. Oh, boy, this can't get worse. Oh, but it fucking does. While you were watching on save file, the Hero's brats have been jumping between saves, trying to make sure as much of the original save file remains as possible. You know intervention is a bad idea given your own history with it, and meanwhile the Heroes best foot forward is threatening to screw you sideways before he even inserts. Well, you'll do your own shenanigans from the shadows, and hope the merged saves create an opportunity for you.

Basically, BAlice is biding her time because she knows about both save files and is planning to "help" via adding a detail that works in her favor. She can't delete the Hero, because he's the key to everything up to that point. But, what if, after he completes his journey, she makes a small change?

But, hey, that's just a theory. A Game Theory!

 

[4lurk3r]

Y'all be making complicated and deep theories while I'm currently sitting on what's probably the most face-value interpretation of things, that

Spoiler

The BAlice who's 'vying for the throne' alongside Kagetsumugi, a bunch of zombies and a bunch of ancient monmusu is the OG Trilogy BAlice, the same one who became the Goddess of Chaos, who's taking her most 'familiar' form and doing the stuff for the sake of shits and giggles, because 'shits and giggles' is probably her biggest motivator by now.

The Part 3 preview cutscene compilation (accessible via the bookshelf in Hades after finishing part 2's final boss), at least on Alice's route, involves Seiten Taisei/Son Goku/Sun Wukong going into a room in search of BAlice - we don't see it, but whatever she sees in there made her completely flip her shit, and bail out alongside Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl, claiming that "We're not guests invited to the party, we're just decorations on the table".

At the very least, that BAlice is definitely more than what she looks like.

But then again, my understanding of Japanese is limited to machine translation, so my understanding of the storyline is fuzzy at best.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Y'all be making complicated and deep theories while I'm currently sitting on what's probably the most face-value interpretation of things, that

Spoiler

The BAlice who's 'vying for the throne' alongside Kagetsumugi, a bunch of zombies and a bunch of ancient monmusu is the OG Trilogy BAlice, the same one who became the Goddess of Chaos, who's taking her most 'familiar' form and doing the stuff for the sake of shits and giggles, because 'shits and giggles' is probably her biggest motivator by now.

The Part 3 preview cutscene compilation (accessible via the bookshelf in Hades after finishing part 2's final boss), at least on Alice's route, involves Seiten Taisei/Son Goku/Sun Wukong going into a room in search of BAlice - we don't see it, but whatever she sees in there made her completely flip her shit, and bail out alongside Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl, claiming that "We're not guests invited to the party, we're just decorations on the table".

At the very least, that BAlice is definitely more than what she looks like.

But then again, my understanding of Japanese is limited to machine translation, so my understanding of the storyline is fuzzy at best.

Spoiler

It kind of fits with my theory that she's OG BAlice, except more powerful and biding her time. Also, that she didn't immediately reveal herself in part 1 while Luka and co were nearby suggests she is indeed keeping quiet until the saves get merged. There was another point I wanted to bring up, since it relates to part 1.

There are two Illias currently. There are two points to support this. The first relates to Luka's "bad end" scenes, wherein following the h-scene, Illias appears and gives her age-old advice on how to defeat a monster. Now, you might say "you're just taking a cute nod to the original trilogy out of context." However, if you didn't want to sit through the hour-long final battle of the original trilogy, you get Luka's mother showing up instead:

So, if we're to assume that Illias is helping you up until that point, then that suggests she exists, in some form, and ready to aid the Hero in winning the battle and getting one step closer to achieving his intended goal. But, in Paradox, Illias travels alongside you. Who is giving the evaluation, then?

The second point happens fairly early. When you meet the Goddess Statue to receive your blessing, Illias appears, albeit distorted. Later, when you confront her about it, she mentions never actually appearing in order to test Luka's devotion to her. Who was this second Illias that Luka was blessed by, then?

 

[Syrath]

Spoiler

It kind of fits with my theory that she's OG BAlice, except more powerful and biding her time. Also, that she didn't immediately reveal herself in part 1 while Luka and co were nearby suggests she is indeed keeping quiet until the saves get merged. There was another point I wanted to bring up, since it relates to part 1.

There are two Illias currently. There are two points to support this. The first relates to Luka's "bad end" scenes, wherein following the h-scene, Illias appears and gives her age-old advice on how to defeat a monster. Now, you might say "you're just taking a cute nod to the original trilogy out of context." However, if you didn't want to sit through the hour-long final battle of the original trilogy, you get Luka's mother showing up instead:

So, if we're to assume that Illias is helping you up until that point, then that suggests she exists, in some form, and ready to aid the Hero in winning the battle and getting one step closer to achieving his intended goal. But, in Paradox, Illias travels alongside you. Who is giving the evaluation, then?

The second point happens fairly early. When you meet the Goddess Statue to receive your blessing, Illias appears, albeit distorted. Later, when you confront her about it, she mentions never actually appearing in order to test Luka's devotion to her. Who was this second Illias that Luka was blessed by, then?

Spoiler

The second Ilias is the Ilias contained in the barrier at Ilias temple in the Paradox world. That much is clearly confirmed in Part 2. She says herself it took almost all of her strength to contact Luka and tell him to resolve the Tartarus rifts and the chaos consuming the world, despite sealing herself off.

More questions are to be made about loli Ilias, the Ilias that joins you on her route. Who exactly sealed her off (iirc unlike for Alice we don't learn that), and put her in the condition we find her isn't really known. Also her complete confusion over Sonya's existence is also interesting. She's definitely not from the Paradox world if she wasn't aware of her existence from observing Luka so much, but at the same time considering Sonya's status as an Apoptosis, and the first line Luka has with her being confusion over who she is, it's possible she basically hacked herself into the timeline. Just saying too, Ilias "Knowing every human in existence" is a pretty interesting power when you consider the parallel worlds can contain people who exist in the future or past, or even people who wouldn't exist otherwise.

I think there's going to be a lot of Part 1 callbacks in Part 3 to get our minds blown by.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Spoiler

The second Ilias is the Ilias contained in the barrier at Ilias temple in the Paradox world. That much is clearly confirmed in Part 2. She says herself it took almost all of her strength to contact Luka and tell him to resolve the Tartarus rifts and the chaos consuming the world, despite sealing herself off.

More questions are to be made about loli Ilias, the Ilias that joins you on her route. Who exactly sealed her off (iirc unlike for Alice we don't learn that), and put her in the condition we find her isn't really known. Also her complete confusion over Sonya's existence is also interesting. She's definitely not from the Paradox world if she wasn't aware of her existence from observing Luka so much, but at the same time considering Sonya's status as an Apoptosis, and the first line Luka has with her being confusion over who she is, it's possible she basically hacked herself into the timeline. Just saying too, Ilias "Knowing every human in existence" is a pretty interesting power when you consider the parallel worlds can contain people who exist in the future or past, or even people who wouldn't exist otherwise.

I think there's going to be a lot of Part 1 callbacks in Part 3 to get our minds blown by.

Spoiler

Loli Illias has knowledge of the original timeline, which indicates she is from that one, same as BAlice. She mentions details in part one such as Luka's ambition for co-existence and is absolutey floored when he says, "Nah, shit's already old news." She also mentions how Luka's aunt and mother betrayed her in the original timeline, which ellicits a moment of confusion later on when that same aunt then seems worshipful of Illias on her deathbed. It's likely that, to some extent, OT Luka was able to "create" a version of Illias that fit within the Paradox timeline, but something happened to cause a version of the OT Illias to emerge.

 

[Yilin]

I'll be honest, I didn't carefully read Bob's first post. What I should note in the original trilogy however, according to the wiki, that BA "was only sealed in the original trilogy" isn't true. She definitely got annihilated by the holy-dark fusion, or at the very least, reverse-consumed by Ilias.

But for Bob's second post:

Spoiler: End of Paradox Part 2 Spoilers

The Ilias that does the evaluations in Paradox is arbitrary. There are countless universes with countless Iliases. The one that does evaluations for non-important battles might be Paradox's Ilias. But for specific battles (Adramelech, Sonya), it is explicitly stated that a random universe's Ilias is performing the evaluation, so ANY Ilias can do it.

Spoiler

More questions are to be made about loli Ilias, the Ilias that joins you on her route. Who exactly sealed her off (iirc unlike for Alice we don't learn that), and put her in the condition we find her isn't really known.

Spoiler: End of Paradox Part 2 Ilias Route Spoilers

Lolilias remembers she was sealed by Promestein with Black Alice watching, which most likely corresponds to the period in time where she was eaten by BA in the original timeline. Paradox's Ilias then states that Lolilias is only a small fragment of the original timeline Ilias who is unquestionably dead. The mystery is the period of time between the sealing and Ilias's death, and how/why such a paradox occurred, as Lolilias seemingly has memories of dying to Luka too.

 

[Williamtheshatner]

As someone who bought part 2 but was willing to wait the year+ until the translation came out, this thread has been a whole lot of ignored posts as of late.
btw I don't really care for most spoilers it's just this seems like it's some serious lore shit that I should probably just skip anyway

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Spoiler

I wasn't sure if BAlice did die, although the fact that Illias ate her likely has an impact. For all intents and purposes, though, I could see a similar case where a small portion of BAlice survived in some manner, or even took advantage of being sealed by Luka to hide within Illias until the latter was defeated. As for LolIllias, she did give a portion of her power to Luka so he could heal. You could argue she used that portion to create a "seed" wherein she planned to be reborn. It's all speculation, though.

 

[Darkstar816]

I finished the Ilias route, so I put together an updated NG+ savefile. A bit burned out, so I probably won't update until Paradox 3 has been released and fully patched. Notes are below.


NEWGAME+ Savefile for MONSTER GIRL QUEST PARADOX v2.23

This savefile seems to have most content completed. The encyclopedia stands at roughly 67% completion, but I am fairly certain that most of the missing entries belong to the upcoming Paradox 3. As such, this can be considered to be a nearly 100% savefile for Paradox 2.23.

Nuruko is set up with skills to avoid monsters.


+Both of the Ilias and Alice routes have been completed.
+A fair number of characters have maxed level, jobs, and species, including Promestein Elixer and quest unlocks.
+LOC trials have all five levels unlocked.
+The maximum amount of LOC gear has been collected, at Legendary tier. Ranges from LV23 to LV28. WARNING: STRONG CPU RECOMMENDED
+Paradox 2.23 Campaign super-bosses defeated: Armored Berserker, Tamamo no Mae, Black Alice.
+The main LOC labyrinth has all shortcuts unlocked, up to floor 400. There are no shortcuts for 500+. Warning: shortcuts are not retained between playthroughs.
+All routes completed, unless otherwise noted in Route Notes.

=Almost all defeat scenes viewed and evaluated.
=Nearly all campaign undergarments have been collected. LOC garments have barely been collected.
=Most monsters have their drops revealed.
=Some of the unique gear from the LOC, such as Excalibur is available.
*Excalibur
*King of Hearts
*Gaia Robe
*Jorgumand
*Genji Shield
*White Sword

=Every generic quest and character completed*. Quests with multiple choices may not be 100%.
*For some reason, Lucifina's quest can't be finished on the Alice playthrough. Probably requires Ilias.

-The Canaan Sisters are not in the monster encyclopedia nor in Hades, due to following the peace route for the Plansect factions. Dunno if the Insects have a set of unique creatures.
-Most of the ladies haven't been milked.

-There may be a sub-route that I haven't tried to complete: You can leave Sonya at the start of the game, and forgo various conversations and the pocket castle. Unless this drastically changes the outcome of the final game, I probably won't ever attempt this route myself.


CHOICES FOR CURRENT PLAYTHROUGH

*Supported Alice.
*Supported Lucia.
*Supported Marines.
*Supported Plansect Peace.
*Supported the Succubus Mayor.
*Supported the Spider Princess.



ROUTE NOTES

Mutual Plansect route completed, the individual Plant and Insect routes have not. It is unknown if there are any unlockables for supporting the Plansect Insects.


Alice Route Exclusives
*Gnosis battle in Esta
*Recruit Alicetromeria
*Recruit Lillith & Lillim
*Nuruko Chaosization
*Morrigan recruitment


Ilias Route Exclusives
*Battle against Zion in Esta
*Recruit Heinrich
*Recruit Eden, Lucifina, and Micaela.
*Sonya Apopstasis
*Alma Elma recruitment

 

[Yilin]

As someone who bought part 2 but was willing to wait the year+ until the translation came out, this thread has been a whole lot of ignored posts as of late.
btw I don't really care for most spoilers it's just this seems like it's some serious lore shit that I should probably just skip anyway

Well, the main story translation is more or less complete. I didn't find any significant inconsistencies despite the tail end being translated by a different group instead of Dargoth so it was good enough for me to dive in.

 

[Syrath]

Well, the main story translation is more or less complete. I didn't find any significant inconsistencies despite the tail end being translated by a different group instead of Dargoth so it was good enough for me to dive in.

Eh, it has a few spelling and grammatical errors here and there, and the level of character-specific fluff that Dargoth's team puts effort into isn't present. But I can say it's more than passable. It's just on the level of a typical fan-translation while Dargoth's translation reaches above that.

 

[Genflare]

Well, the main story translation is more or less complete. I didn't find any significant inconsistencies despite the tail end being translated by a different group instead of Dargoth so it was good enough for me to dive in.

Hold on, I may have missed it in the whole flood of pages but any idea where I can find said translation? for all the parts. last one I know about is the one on dargoth's git, is that one complete?

 

[Yilin]

Hold on, I may have missed it in the whole flood of pages but any idea where I can find said translation? for all the parts. last one I know about is the one on dargoth's git, is that one complete?

You have to get dargoth's git, then append it with the other group's git.

Instructions:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Green Thoughts]

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. She's associated with plant life and rules over Sabasa in the angel world, which is a major agricultural region. She's benevolent except to those who oppose her and seems to especially hate Kanon of the Six Ancestors.



Images of her H-scene can be found at that link.

 

[J300mer]

You know, compared to the usual eldritch abominations that call themselves angels, this is much better.

 

[cacapost]

You know, compared to the usual eldritch abominations that call themselves angels, this is much better.

They put Delphinus (the artist of the part 3 "angels") on the actual eldritch abominations in the tartarus pits instead :^)
Xelvy the madman cant be stopped though, his art keeps one on their toes. At any time a normal scene can turn into a sex nightmare. Like the Gnosis literal ballsucking scene, which I think was so brutal its not even in the game, only the files.