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Threshold

Threshold

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The game is really easy once you understand a few things:

- Distract is OP
- Consumables are your friend
- Sometimes it's better to brute force a fight rather than be smart
- Power up moves are generally a waste
So are power ups not strong enough or not long lasting enough you think?
Or is it just generally monster do horrific things when you do them usually or interrupt it?

My issue with that kind of change is that multiple enemies should be making the interaction Hell to begin with. Even if you present the argument that it's unfair to players to have to constantly struggle, I defer to my earlier point about tanking through grapples/status. My only main complaint is on bosses, who, last I checked, don't have fetishes (may be wrong), so there's nothing to exploit? Anyways, it's whatever you figure, man. I do agree that harpy grapples can get dumb, especially when your action is cancelled from a divebomb.

On a relevant note, Kunoichi sleep-kissing is a thing.
My bigger issue with the current stance escape method is that high power enemies like Jora and Minotaurs are nigh impossible to escape from as it's all luck based rolls.
Though I should probably put that tanking might be a better plan in some cases in Elena's little tutorial section when you talk to her about combat stuff.
Nara has high breast sensitivity.
Ancilla has... No she actually has nothing, but i intend to mess around with her mechanics when I get to updating parts of the forest dungeon.

And what do you mean by kunoichi sleep-kissing? Cause that sounds like some kind of bug that needs to be fixed.
 

Ninja_Named_Bob

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My bigger issue with the current stance escape method is that high power enemies like Jora and Minotaurs are nigh impossible to escape from as it's all luck based rolls.
Though I should probably put that tanking might be a better plan in some cases in Elena's little tutorial section when you talk to her about combat stuff.
It might be helpful, yeah. I'm one of those weird people who builds a tank and then proceeds to drive through Berlin like a jack-ass.

Nara has high breast sensitivity.
Ancilla has... No she has nothing,
I'm fine with bosses having nothing, although Nara being one is... unexpected. I figured she was a pre-dungeon... thing. Kind of like the slime you fight before the forest dungeon. Just a pre-dungeon enemy to make sure you're up to snuff.

And what do you mean by kunoichi sleep-kissing? Cause that sounds like some kind of bug that needs to be fixed.
I'm too lazy to test it cause it's such a rarity, but if you lock Kunoichi into make-out and charm her after she hits you with a sleep move, then don't take an insomnia potion, you'll go through 5+ turns where she poses provocatively and you'll sleep. It's hilarious because there is no damage on both sides, and the Kunoichi won't try to break the stance even after the charm falls off.
 

Yuhan

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My bigger issue with the current stance escape method is that high power enemies like Jora and Minotaurs are nigh impossible to escape from as it's all luck based rolls.
This is exactly why distract is so good, and maybe a bit too good.

I can confirm what the above person says. It's a thing with every enemy that has a sleep attack.
Basically your character falls asleep while holding the enemy in a stance.
While your character is sleeping the enemy tries to get out of the stance by struggling.
Because of the lvl//stat/build/charm it's basically impossible to ever escape the stance.
Imagine a scene where Sofia tries to escape kissing with you while you are sleeping for 5-10 turns (think about it, it's hilarious), basically nothing happens and it's a lot of skipping for the player to finally wake up.(this is how I cheesed Sofia because I was bored one time)
To fix this, turn sleep into a condition where you are more helpless.

As for power ups, I'm not a game designer but I would like to share my thoughts.
Power ups right now just "feel" wrong.
The most fun power ups are the offensive ones, so lets focus on that, and because playing defence is boring. You're here to fuck some monster girls and make them cum their brains out.
Imagine you using a power up and you feel great thinking "it's go time".
Then the enemy hits you with a sleep/restrain/stance leading to your power up being a waste because you have to struggle/use consumable/distract. Or the enemy struggles out of your stance, meaning you will have to use a turn of your power up to get back into the stance, sometimes failing.
I don't know how to fix this problem, perhaps introduce some fights that encourage the use of power ups via predictability?, but the only thing I can say is that power ups aren't satisfying to use and can be too easily punished by most monsters leading to a wasted turn and frustration.

Also! The wording of power ups (and other skills in general) are extremely vague. You power up and increase your damage! But by how much? 20%? 50%? 100%? Do power ups stack? I honestly have no idea how good they are because I never use them. Maybe if the tooltip said 100% I'd be more impressed and use it more?

I look forward to hearing what you think of my rambling.
 
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Someone92

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Regarding power-ups:
You could do it as Monster Girl Quest has done it, during (negative) stances/struggles they do not lose a turn of their duration each turn.

Regarding fetish moves:
Instead of barring players who do not have the required fetish threshold from content I prefer the following approach:
Fetish 0-2: Easy willpower check (or another check), option to succumb
Fetish 3-5: Very hard willpower check (or another check), option to succumb
Fetish 6+: Auto Lose
That way, you do not bypass content.

Regarding mechanic of fetishes:
Instead of more damage (or in addition) for each fetish level you have a 10% risk to lose an additional spirit on orgasm.
That could separate the fetishes from sensitivity more.

Regarding balance:
Against many girls Anal Penetration is too good. They just stand there while you go to town with them.
 

Zashs

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Buffs all have the same issues.

They are not strong enough to warrant wasting a turn on.
They are based on getting x out of x turns, but restriction/need to heal etc will reduce their effectiveness dramatically and sometimes even render them entirely useless.

Without in-built mechanics like cooldowns etc, it's hard to say how you would even balance them if you buff them, since it would be easy to make them overpowered too.
 
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Threshold

Threshold

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I'm fine with bosses having nothing, although Nara being one is... unexpected. I figured she was a pre-dungeon... thing. Kind of like the slime you fight before the forest dungeon. Just a pre-dungeon enemy to make sure you're up to snuff.
To be fair the term boss is pretty vague in this game.

I'm too lazy to test it cause it's such a rarity, but if you lock Kunoichi into make-out and charm her after she hits you with a sleep move, then don't take an insomnia potion, you'll go through 5+ turns where she poses provocatively and you'll sleep. It's hilarious because there is no damage on both sides, and the Kunoichi won't try to break the stance even after the charm falls off.
I can confirm what the above person says. It's a thing with every enemy that has a sleep attack.
Basically your character falls asleep while holding the enemy in a stance.
While your character is sleeping the enemy tries to get out of the stance by struggling.
Because of the lvl//stat/build/charm it's basically impossible to ever escape the stance.
Imagine a scene where Sofia tries to escape kissing with you while you are sleeping for 5-10 turns (think about it, it's hilarious), basically nothing happens and it's a lot of skipping for the player to finally wake up.(this is how I cheesed Sofia because I was bored one time)
To fix this, turn sleep into a condition where you are more helpless.
Oh, well there's a few ways I can go about fixing that.
Giving them moves in said stance, own version of distract, allow them to ignore charm if you're asleep. there's options. Probably work on that more in v19 with the forest dungeon and combat stuff I want to mess around with.


This is exactly why distract is so good, and maybe a bit too good.
It might be, but I'm not going to nerf it until getting out of stances is a bit more reasonable. So same as above for when it'l happen.


As for power ups, I'm not a game designer but I would like to share my thoughts.
Power ups right now just "feel" wrong.
The most fun power ups are the offensive ones, so lets focus on that, and because playing defence is boring. You're here to fuck some monster girls and make them cum their brains out.
Imagine you using a power up and you feel great thinking "it's go time".
Then the enemy hits you with a sleep/restrain/stance leading to your power up being a waste because you have to struggle/use consumable/distract. Or the enemy struggles out of your stance, meaning you will have to use a turn of your power up to get back into the stance, sometimes failing.
I don't know how to fix this problem, perhaps introduce some fights that encourage the use of power ups via predictability?, but the only thing I can say is that power ups aren't satisfying to use and can be too easily punished by most monsters leading to a wasted turn and frustration.
That makes sense, basically the game punishes you to much for trying to use it currently. Kinda what I figured when it was brought up.


Also! The wording of power ups (and other skills in general) are extremely vague. You power up and increase your damage! But by how much? 20%? 50%? 100%? Do power ups stack? I honestly have no idea how good they are because I never use them. Maybe if the tooltip said 100% I'd be more impressed and use it more?
Skills in general could really use a good dose of clarity for damage they deal or how much of a buff you get. Probably going to try to work that into the v19 sofia/forest dungeon update as well.

Regarding power-ups:
You could do it as Monster Girl Quest has done it, during (negative) stances/struggles they do not lose a turn of their duration each turn.
That's not a bad idea, I'll write that down for future reference so I don't forget to properly think on it when implementing changes.


Regarding fetish moves:
Instead of barring players who do not have the required fetish threshold from content I prefer the following approach:
Fetish 0-2: Easy willpower check (or another check), option to succumb
Fetish 3-5: Very hard willpower check (or another check), option to succumb
Fetish 6+: Auto Lose
That way, you do not bypass content.
I'd say closer to this If i did something like that, though many cases where these checks come up can have alterations or variations. And adding in such checks can be a bit annoying, but will probably be worth the effort.
Many cases can be subjective depending on the opponent.
0-2 - ignore or embrace temptation
3-4 resist check option or embrace option
5-6 hard resist check option or embrace option and occasionally auto fail/lose
7-9 very hard check option, or embrace it option, and can be auto fail/lose
10 auto fail.

But at the same time I also kind of like the idea of people intentionally getting fetishes to get access to additional content, fits well with some of the thematic elements of the game. Like temptation.

Regarding mechanic of fetishes:
Instead of more damage (or in addition) for each fetish level you have a 10% risk to lose an additional spirit on orgasm.
That could separate the fetishes from sensitivity more.
Additional spirit loss is something I have played around with before, and is technically in the game if you go absurdly above your max arousal when you orgasm. So that's not to say it won't happen ever. Some combat effects could have triggers like this where the monster girl makes you cum an excessive amount due to a fetish.
I still like fetishes dealing extra damage, and the temptation elements. But the extra spirit loss could be excessive, and not always readable.
If spirit was counted in a more nebulous way, eg 100 instead of 1, it'd be a lot easier to draw on instead of potentially instantly destroying someone with this kind of random effect.
It actually used to be a larger number at one point, but people found it to be a bit hard to tell how close to 'death' they actually were.
But to be fair currently spirit is actually a pretty broken stat to sink points into right now. So who knows! Though, enemies who energy drain and heal from your orgasms can go to town on you if that's all you get.

Regarding balance:
Against many girls Anal Penetration is too good. They just stand there while you go to town with them.
Really? I thought i fixed it so they use there normal sex moves during anal? Did I miss anyone?
Though there are some who just flail and try to get out of the stance like Kyra.


Buffs all have the same issues.

They are not strong enough to warrant wasting a turn on.
They are based on getting x out of x turns, but restriction/need to heal etc will reduce their effectiveness dramatically and sometimes even render them entirely useless.

Without in-built mechanics like cooldowns etc, it's hard to say how you would even balance them if you buff them, since it would be easy to make them overpowered too.
Overtuning power up moves could also be an issue if I'm not careful, hopefully I can find a happy balance.
 

Briger

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But at the same time I also kind of like the idea of people intentionally getting fetishes to get access to additional content, fits well with some of the thematic elements of the game. Like temptation.
Then how about
0 - auto ignore
1-2 - ignore or embrace temptation
3-4 resist check option or embrace option
5-6 hard resist check option or embrace option and occasionally auto fail/lose
7-9 very hard check option, or embrace it option, and can be auto fail/lose
10 auto fail.
 

Williamtheshatner

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Then how about
0 - auto ignore
1-2 - ignore or embrace temptation
3-4 resist check option or embrace option
5-6 hard resist check option or embrace option and occasionally auto fail/lose
7-9 very hard check option, or embrace it option, and can be auto fail/lose
10 auto fail.
All of that's fine except for auto ignore at 0 always, which I'd only be okay with in certain circumstances. Using Trisha as the example, sure there are some things which do nothing if you don't have any fetishes for her temptation attack, but that doesn't mean that all of them are ignorable. I'm all for 0 being an auto ignore/fail if it's one of several different options, but I don't like that idea if it's an attack that only targets one fetish, like for example if Mika had a temptation attack being more effective versus people with ass fetishes. Having 0 fetish for it shouldn't automatically make that attack useless, just make it a choice.
 

Briger

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on that note how do you feel about making tail fetish a thing in this game?
 
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Threshold

Threshold

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on that note how do you feel about making tail fetish a thing in this game?
I'm actually adding in Monstrous Fetish in the next version to cover tails, slimy massages, wings, tentacles, tail pussies, and ext.
I feel like breaking more monstrous aspects into individual fetishes would make the effects to far and few between.
 

Briger

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there should be a slight split since that will end up being way too generalized
 

Eredin5

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I'm actually adding in Monstrous Fetish in the next version to cover tails, slimy massages, wings, tentacles, tail pussies, and ext.
I feel like breaking more monstrous aspects into individual fetishes would make the effects to far and few between.
My man! Excellent idea. I like where you're going in general with the fetishes. Regarding the sleep stuff, it would make sense to me for the sleeping person to be completely helpless. I remember in earlier versions I frequently lost more than 1sp to Nicci and it was annoying especially at lower levels.

Regarding the temptation/fetish thing, how common are those moves or events going to occur? The Trisha rework is quite frankly some of your best work and I could see why you want to incorporate some of that stuff into the other characters. I wouldn't mind seeing it for everyone but I can understand if you don't have the time to give everyone something like that.
 

Cryswar

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Sooo random fun fact. If you run the modloader without having any mods to load and then try to run the game, it just crashes infinitely. Not uhh... sure how to fix that. Ended up reinstalling.
 
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Threshold

Threshold

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there should be a slight split since that will end up being way too generalized
Maybe, but it will do for now, as it has more skills that deal bonus damage to the player than the feet fetish does currently. xD
But won't have any actual interactions/checks at launch.
Ms Manticore will definitely get some when I get around to her again.



Regarding the temptation/fetish thing, how common are those moves or events going to occur? The Trisha rework is quite frankly some of your best work and I could see why you want to incorporate some of that stuff into the other characters. I wouldn't mind seeing it for everyone but I can understand if you don't have the time to give everyone something like that.
Well not everyone will get the same sort of events in combat, but by all means I will be adding more temptation things in combat.
But as an example, Kyra is not the most temptation inclined character, and would be more likely to get things like counters, or in combat skill checks like alternative restraining grapples.


Sooo random fun fact. If you run the modloader without having any mods to load and then try to run the game, it just crashes infinitely. Not uhh... sure how to fix that. Ended up reinstalling.
It's because there's no folders for it, it was brought up before at some point so I'll just quote myself for how to fix it before the next update in case you wanna use the mod loader.
But I'm pretty sure it does break the list and you need a fresh install if you do it and it breaks stuff.
Though running it with the missing folders might fix it too.
Basically renpy cleared out the empty folders when I build the game distribution.

Okay so anyone interested in using the mod loader, turns out renpy was deleting the mod loaders folders when I made distributions because the folders were empty, next time I update the game that will be fixed.

But to get it working you just need to make a folder called ModLoader.
Then a folder called mods and a folder called lists in the ModLoader folder.

Capitalization should be exact to what I typed for the folder names, and then the mod loader will work correctly, and not break the game.
 
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Threshold

Threshold

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Double post for v18 update.

New zone/Dungeon added, but it is not yet completed and is not able to be finished by the player.
But still a decent amount of new content is there, and is hopefully not bug ridden.

Check the change log for more details!
 

Giratena

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Always excited for new major updates. I can't wait to try it out!
 

Ninja_Named_Bob

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So, I've played a bit of it. Some issues to fix:

-If you ask Goddess Venerae to fix your fetishes, it will cause a crash. You can press "ignore" on the crash page with no further issues afaik.
-Kissing the Kunoichi after you encounter Aiko results in you getting the make-out text for after you've charmed Aiko.

Those are the only ones I've been able to find so far.
 

shadow1029

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Found a couple of bugs.
Using Make Out with the Kunoichi Trainee jumps to Aiko's Temptation scene, and escaping it brings you back to the Kunoichi Trainee fight. It also randomly triggers when in the Make Out stance if you don't escape.
Trying to Purge unclean thoughts in town gave me an exception. I can't reproduce it reliably, even with the same save file.
The Tengu's normal loss scene triggers an exception, and sends you to the final room of the Will trial with 0 Spirit after ignoring it. So the next fight is an auto loss, if you don't go back to town and heal.
From the entrance of the Will-Power Temple: Blue Entrance, Entering the will trials door, Go to will trial entrance (after the encounter), has the character description for Minoni pop up. She should be in the Power side of the temple, right?

I attached a text file with the exceptions, since they got rather long and passed the 20000 character limit for posts (even in spoilers).
 

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Williamtheshatner

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You gotta love when you bookmark a thread so that you'll know whenever someone posts something but for some reason the alerts sometimes just flat out don't work, and you only just find out that people have been posting on the thread. Fantastic.

It feels slightly off topic, but does anyone know a way to make it so that ULMF will always give notifications when someone posts something on a watched thread?
 

Giratena

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Most people are talking about typo's and bug fixes but I gotta say I am IN LOVE with this update. The hypnosis and willpower content, and the new conditianal enemy battle dialgue is soo good. You really did a number on this one and I can't express how much I love it haha

Kotone's hypnosis sessions are oh so sensually described and the build up is so absolutely perfect as well, you really have a talent for this kind of writing ^^
 
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