Reading what people have to say about combat is very interesting. Seems we're lacking something in an otherwise fun game. For one, I think stances as a whole, need to be more difficult to escape. Distract is very powerful and perhaps it's use per battle should be limited based on the difficulty of the game. Next, I'd suggest to implement a willpower gauge that counts up to 100% and only then will allow you to escape the stance. Time to reach 100% should vary on fetishes. My last suggestion is to add "finishing moves" to certain enemies that will make you lose 1sp if they pull off the move. You could alter the odds of success by difficulty as well. I would only add finishing moves to powerful enemies though to make them more dynamic.
- Thread starter Threshold
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Ninja_Named_Bob
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What are you even talking about? Barely anyone has mentioned combat as being an issue. More than that, stuff like making the enemies "more interesting" or adding an out-of-combat feature here or there have been the main suggestions on the last page. If you're going to try and jump in on a conversation, please at least attempt to listen before offering an opinion. The combat isn't that relevant to a lot of the discussion that Threshold feels it necessary to alter it in any way. Well, a fix here and there...
Stances used to be a bitch to get out of and it was a big enough problem that Threshold changed it. If you played the game since day one, you would know the shitfest that was Imp Lock a few updates ago. Asking for that nightmare to return, even suggesting it is "okay" is just bad.
Threshold might change the power levels of some skills later on down the line if enough people feel they're too strong. Distract is pretty high-cost/requirement iirc, though. I doubt we'll see it get a nerf without substantial support for the idea.
The UI would need an overhaul for the willpower gauge. Doing that this far into development is asking Threshold to put his current work on hold and implement something that most people probably won't want/care about, anyways. It's also another thing that players have to keep track of in order to get to the content they want, which can make game-play tedious. Also, how would you implement a fetish-based system with your willpower bar? I think I speak for all of us when I request you walk us through the process.
"Finishing moves" don't even exist in MGQ, or ROBF iirc. There are moves you have a chance to be hit with that are an auto-kill if it lands, but those are highly preventable and the enemy can repeat them if they fail the first time. Heck, even CoC and TiTS don't have an "ultimate move" for enemies because the game-play would revolve around a ridiculous amount of RNG at not getting hit by it during a fight. It's incredibly unfair to ask players to RNG a win and risk missing content just because an enemy decided to pull a wincon out of their ass at the last second and completely upset our otherwise guaranteed victory.
These all sound like suggestions coming from the position of someone who wants this game to be a different game tailored to their taste, rather than helpful advice on how to improve the existing product. Please, when you give your opinion/advice, consider whether it's asking for the creator to change the existing product, or simply offering insight into how the existing product might be made better with what it already has.
Stances used to be a bitch to get out of and it was a big enough problem that Threshold changed it. If you played the game since day one, you would know the shitfest that was Imp Lock a few updates ago. Asking for that nightmare to return, even suggesting it is "okay" is just bad.
Threshold might change the power levels of some skills later on down the line if enough people feel they're too strong. Distract is pretty high-cost/requirement iirc, though. I doubt we'll see it get a nerf without substantial support for the idea.
The UI would need an overhaul for the willpower gauge. Doing that this far into development is asking Threshold to put his current work on hold and implement something that most people probably won't want/care about, anyways. It's also another thing that players have to keep track of in order to get to the content they want, which can make game-play tedious. Also, how would you implement a fetish-based system with your willpower bar? I think I speak for all of us when I request you walk us through the process.
"Finishing moves" don't even exist in MGQ, or ROBF iirc. There are moves you have a chance to be hit with that are an auto-kill if it lands, but those are highly preventable and the enemy can repeat them if they fail the first time. Heck, even CoC and TiTS don't have an "ultimate move" for enemies because the game-play would revolve around a ridiculous amount of RNG at not getting hit by it during a fight. It's incredibly unfair to ask players to RNG a win and risk missing content just because an enemy decided to pull a wincon out of their ass at the last second and completely upset our otherwise guaranteed victory.
These all sound like suggestions coming from the position of someone who wants this game to be a different game tailored to their taste, rather than helpful advice on how to improve the existing product. Please, when you give your opinion/advice, consider whether it's asking for the creator to change the existing product, or simply offering insight into how the existing product might be made better with what it already has.
There's no need to make any "huge" changes to the combat system that drastically alter it.
Lots of people made good suggestions for simpler changes to mechanics that can easily be implemented in order to spice up the game.
Most people that gave critique and offered suggestions were simply bothered with the idea that you only spam 1 move every single fight because that's how it currently works.
The "combat system" itself is fine. A game like this doesn't need anything complicated or overly special to work.
Lots of people made good suggestions for simpler changes to mechanics that can easily be implemented in order to spice up the game.
Most people that gave critique and offered suggestions were simply bothered with the idea that you only spam 1 move every single fight because that's how it currently works.
The "combat system" itself is fine. A game like this doesn't need anything complicated or overly special to work.
OP
Threshold
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Combat Summary
-I want to change player progression/leveling a little so not dumping all your points into more than just one or two stats is more viable for your damage output. Probably some skill tweaks too.
-Monsters are fine and will only be improved as I go back over them and give them combat events. Go fight Trisha for the current best example of it. The possibilities are basically limitless. But in the case of enemies it will be a lot more individual tweaks and changes than a single change overall to enemies. Eg, not every enemy will try to use seduction/temptation.
-I've been rolling the idea of changing stance struggles to be less random and make them function similar to restraints in that they have a set 'hp bar' before your free. So you can't just get a run of bad luck and be in a stance still after 5 or so turns.
-The progression/stat/skill tweaks will happen before I do anything drastic like adding full new mechanics to the game and shoot my self in the foot with scope. (Eg, mood, or other things I've thought of that I'm not mentioning.)
-Combat changes/tweaks will not be happening until v19 or v20, v18 is the one i'm working on.
-Possibly something else I've forgotten to comment on.
-Lillian is apparently too cute and I need to nerf her.
Also random not the game is in alpha v17.3 currently. and for anyone wondering why it's not a v0.17 or something like that it's because the 0.XX, should denote that I have a better idea of when the game would be considered a v1/complete. I really don't know how many updates until we're going to hit that. So I just keep counting up as a solid number for main update. I don't know if this is a really dumb thing or not but it's what I've been doing and will probably continue to do until it's done.
Cause I'm pretty sure if I switched it back to v1 one I consider it a beta people will just get confused and angry?
For the item quick menu I can probably stick a button on the left or right side of the text box that is grayed out when your inventory is not available, and when it is it has color or something along those line. And have it display your consumable/healing items only, in a list similar to the items in the combat menu so it isn't hard coded shortcuts, and have the box open to the left or right of the text box.
But as you said it would increase the amount of dialogue, and I would probably need to restrict it based on the moves available to the monster, and probably require you to know the move as well? Maybe not that.
-I want to change player progression/leveling a little so not dumping all your points into more than just one or two stats is more viable for your damage output. Probably some skill tweaks too.
-Monsters are fine and will only be improved as I go back over them and give them combat events. Go fight Trisha for the current best example of it. The possibilities are basically limitless. But in the case of enemies it will be a lot more individual tweaks and changes than a single change overall to enemies. Eg, not every enemy will try to use seduction/temptation.
-I've been rolling the idea of changing stance struggles to be less random and make them function similar to restraints in that they have a set 'hp bar' before your free. So you can't just get a run of bad luck and be in a stance still after 5 or so turns.
-The progression/stat/skill tweaks will happen before I do anything drastic like adding full new mechanics to the game and shoot my self in the foot with scope. (Eg, mood, or other things I've thought of that I'm not mentioning.)
-Combat changes/tweaks will not be happening until v19 or v20, v18 is the one i'm working on.
-Possibly something else I've forgotten to comment on.
-Lillian is apparently too cute and I need to nerf her.
Also random not the game is in alpha v17.3 currently. and for anyone wondering why it's not a v0.17 or something like that it's because the 0.XX, should denote that I have a better idea of when the game would be considered a v1/complete. I really don't know how many updates until we're going to hit that. So I just keep counting up as a solid number for main update. I don't know if this is a really dumb thing or not but it's what I've been doing and will probably continue to do until it's done.
Cause I'm pretty sure if I switched it back to v1 one I consider it a beta people will just get confused and angry?
Not actually sure where we can jam the recently used skills unless another tab gets added to the combat menu.
For the item quick menu I can probably stick a button on the left or right side of the text box that is grayed out when your inventory is not available, and when it is it has color or something along those line. And have it display your consumable/healing items only, in a list similar to the items in the combat menu so it isn't hard coded shortcuts, and have the box open to the left or right of the text box.
It's possible, there is also a wait command in the section with surrender, but I don't think that's what you mean.
A request feature is something I would like to add eventually.
But as you said it would increase the amount of dialogue, and I would probably need to restrict it based on the moves available to the monster, and probably require you to know the move as well? Maybe not that.
Wow, what a jerk... Your suggestions sound like they're coming from a white knight. Threshold can do whatever he wants, I'm just putting feedback on a forum for him to read. The combat is fine, but it could be better, but I'll keep playing as long as the updates keep coming out.
Williamtheshatner
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Perhaps a few generic lines and maybe a few special ones depending on the character if need be? That is to say perhaps having a few generic ones and deciding what moves for what characters would be important enough to merit having a few of their own responses? That would still mean doing things for all the characters, but it would presumably make a majority of opponents only really have 1-3 response lines generally and maybe one or two single lines for special attacks IF you wanted to have that for them. Still more work of course, but it might make things ever so slightly more manageable.
Ninja_Named_Bob
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How was I being a jerk? Shooting down your suggestions in a civil, concise manner so as not to allow any room for misinterpretation or assumptions? By offering you a chance to explain how one of your suggestions might be implemented? That's not bullying, son. If you can't handle legitimate, non-antagonistic criticism without name-calling, I would advise you to pick up your fragile ego and leave.
Your "feedback" was asking for drastic changes that people either don't want, or have no interest in. Also, if you had been reading the replies since yours (rather than zeroing in on the one you figured you could pick a fight with), you would see even Threshold is entertaining some potential future ideas. That was your "in" to add to the discussion. Propose something that can work within the constraints of the game and doesn't change things too much, instead of picking a fight with someone in the thread.
The combat is fine for what it is. Threshold has implied dialogue changes could occur in the future, alongside some UI stuff. If he's open to suggestions that radically alter the way interactions happen, then feel free to throw whatever idea you have at him.
@Williamtheshatner: I honestly wouldn't mind generic dialogue if it was only activated where applicable. For more aggressive monsters, you would get some generic shit like "I'll milk you dry!" or something. Only issue is, if you have too much generic dialogue for interactions, it can feel same-y and get boring real quick. It also probably does make things much easier long-term, but it also produces a new issue of "how many times does a player want to see this before they get bored of seeing it?" 1-3 lines is a fairly narrow margin for that.
That said, I'm just as curious to see how it would be implemented and utilized to the most effect. I can see both sides of the argument ("it can get boring pretty fast" and "it's easier to implement and it makes dialogue skips that much less frustrating."), but feel you would need a solid 5 lines of generic dialogue and script it to rotate and come up after 2-3 lines of pre-existing, character-specific dialogue. The other issue is how little character-specific dialogue there already is, so it's gonna rotate pretty frequently.
@Threshold: Move-spam is a bit of a problem. My main complaint is how an enemy will escape a stance a turn after you perform it despite the dialogue coming up that they were shocked-stunned into skipping the previous turn. You would think if they were surprised the previous round, they wouldn't be as capable of escaping, especially if it happens to also pass the check on weaknesses. In the same vein, I wouldn't mind seeing the PC losing a couple rounds to weaknesses based on fetish. Kind of a "fair's fair in love(making) and war" of weaknesses.
Williamtheshatner
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True enough in regards to the repetition thing. I was thinking that perhaps there wouldn't be generic lines shared between monsters, kind of like the responses you can get for surrendering. There are 2-3 unique lines for every single monster, and every single one is unique. As an example of what it might look like ingame (in my mind's eye anyway), take for example Camilla. Let's say two of her generic request lines would be something like "Camilla gets a sadistic gleam in her eyes before skittering towards you" and " 'Really, prey? You won't regret this.' " while requesting a titfuck attack from her (which is kind of her thing) would net a different set of lines, something along the lines of "Camilla suddenly palms her massive chest with a menacing grin before moving towards you" or " 'I can see your shaft aching to be put back between my breasts, prey. You made the right choice.' ". I hope it makes sense that what I mean by "generic" request lines aren't really generic at all, they're unique to the characters but unless they're for specific kinds of attacks (like the example above) they get the same lines.
In an ideal world, every single one of their attacks would have a unique line or two to spice things up, but I'm all for not killing poor Threshold with a wall of new things to write that aren't anything new or involving new content. Of course, implementing my ideas as they stand now would still be a massive amount of stuff to do, but I'm just spitballing here. I'm not the one who makes the decisions as to what makes it into the game or not, so for all I know Threshold might be planning something entirely different for the request system. It's just my opinions is all.
In an ideal world, every single one of their attacks would have a unique line or two to spice things up, but I'm all for not killing poor Threshold with a wall of new things to write that aren't anything new or involving new content. Of course, implementing my ideas as they stand now would still be a massive amount of stuff to do, but I'm just spitballing here. I'm not the one who makes the decisions as to what makes it into the game or not, so for all I know Threshold might be planning something entirely different for the request system. It's just my opinions is all.
Ninja_Named_Bob
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In an ideal world, we'd already have v18 and two new areas...
I would be fine with the request system deferring to generic dialogue based on what you request. Hell, it would significantly reduce the workload for Threshold since he just has to put [monster name] and the dialogue. Or, whatever, since I'm not a developer. We could even take this a step further and make it so certain monsters won't do certain things upon request (Mika won't do straight sex, for example) so he doesn't have to script the dialogue for those requests. I'm spitballing as well.
I would be fine with the request system deferring to generic dialogue based on what you request. Hell, it would significantly reduce the workload for Threshold since he just has to put [monster name] and the dialogue. Or, whatever, since I'm not a developer. We could even take this a step further and make it so certain monsters won't do certain things upon request (Mika won't do straight sex, for example) so he doesn't have to script the dialogue for those requests. I'm spitballing as well.
Briger
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that or write hand holding scenes for her
So the people who want to add "request surrenders" are okay, but I'm not ? Good thing there's no double standards. At least I'm not passive aggressive when posting. Just because I say something is "lacking", doesn't mean you get to straw man me and shit all over me. The combat is fine, but it could do with improvements. This is a commonsense contention and only neurotic people like you write a diatribe debunking what some other random guy wrote on the internet. Only reason I "zeroed in on you" is because you were incredibly rude. Nowhere in the rules of the forum does it say I need to stick to the existing framework in order to make a suggestion. Get a life.
Cryswar
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Best to just ignore Bob entirely. It's a waste of time to try to reason with him and his opinion on your suggestion is irrelevant anyways, only what Threshold thinks of your idea matters. If you think he broke forum rules then report him, but responding to his jackassery with fire of your own just makes more targets for mods and derails this topic.
Ninja_Named_Bob
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So, you don't actually want to contribute anything meaningful to the thread? You just want to sling shit for no reason other than your fragile ego can't handle third-party criticism. Hell, as multiple persons can attest, I OPENED THE FLOOR for you to elaborate on your ideas. You've chosen to instead get offended and shit-sling in an otherwise civil thread. Kindly-and I mean this with the utmost respect and kindness-fuck off and stop shitting up the thread.
And you're just asking for a ban at this point. Hope you enjoy it. :^)
Ninja_Named_Bob
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Also, there's perverts like this dude. Next, you'll want cuddle scenes with Mika. Where does your perversion end? WHERE DOES IT END!?!
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Keep it on topic and keep it civil, people. There's no need for personal attacks.
Briger
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with Mika? no way I'd rather she sit on my face... besides Jora already has the cuddle market cornered.
Williamtheshatner
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Well, she is a cat after all. She would understandably have sits of all shapes and sizes on lockdown.
Come to think of it only the harpies and imps do face sitting right? Could use some more of that. Right after paizuri, that is. Nicci is probably my best girl and has been since before she even had art. As a boob guy, I request enemies with more paizuri please!