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Moreover, one should not assume they are entitled to ANY goodwill or assistance. You are not. Welcome to the internet.
- Thread starter TheTanStar
- Start date
I agree to disagree:
- Links to saves: the good guy's the rude guy's
- Link to lastest translation intended for version 1.0.1 of the game, by the awesome guy (aka SNStep)
- Link to true end guide by the guy who couldn't use spoilers
Not sure about the goodwill but I hope that mini-list is helpful... On the Internet's ULMF.
- Links to saves: the good guy's the rude guy's
- Link to lastest translation intended for version 1.0.1 of the game, by the awesome guy (aka SNStep)
- Link to true end guide by the guy who couldn't use spoilers
Not sure about the goodwill but I hope that mini-list is helpful... On the Internet's ULMF.
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MahMan1912
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I don't think he meant spoiler as the way you interpreted it. Unless I misunderstand how ulmf messages works, I believe he meant that if you use the spoiler function (is it a function?) the wall of text that usually goes into a walkthrough won't appear unless you expand it, which makes it faster to scroll down on the page and doesn't take up as much space.
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This^
What they said. I'll add, my snarky remark does not outweigh the fact he was the one who went out of his way, to agglomerate the most info in a single post. A few come close, but he's the best we've got - though not by a long shot.
Aww, did somebody ask for a wall of text? I ShAll obLiGe. (mostly to ward off the temptation to feed the WoT beast any further)
So... Any curiosity and/or theories over the real story settings? (major spoilers. And way too long.)
a) it's a real school in the real world, that was transposed in another world.
- meaning all succubi had to be forcefully directed/assigned to this school
- starting with Ayumu, 13-15 years before the events. Mochi was also already there, btw.
- meaning EndBoss had to guess or bet males fitting the requirements woud exist 15 years later
- MC "possesses" existing characters with traits he can relate to.
I find all the above very, very unlikely. Endboss would be a psychotic mass murderer in this setting - as any and all NPC has to die, or drown into madness.
b) it's a school in the the real world, made to partially "slip" into a dream (think SQ1's church event).
- Ayumu would still need to be there 15 years before. But she's just 1 changeling among others in other schools to choose from.
- some history could change in the process. Notably, Mochi fusing into our brand Mochi, for some reason.
- other succubi could have been introduced very late in the real world (1-2 years prior).
- or, they could have taken the place of existing girls, with little 'rewriting' needed. Either way, they had already chosen their prey, so no 'extra' bodycount would be required in the process
- most NPCs have a tenuous connection with the dream at best. It's likely they'll wake up mostly unharmed
- MC still has to possess living beings. It's likely they are the among the few ones too deep in the dream, to survive the experience.
More likely. But that still means that at least the main victims/PCs would actually die in the real world.
So far EndBoss is a mass murderer, while she is depicted as 'having a role', suggesting she must 'enforce' certain rules or a certain balance - which MC obviously upset by his actions. Yet that balance cannot possibly be upheld, by adding more unnecessary body bags to the debacle.
c) it's 99% a creation, a dream with maybe some inspiration from real world characters
- everything can be rewritten to a good extent
- all characters you meet are creations; except the Succubi who take on a role in the play
- even Ayumu's target could be yet another decoy, set up for the play's sake
- Succubi are also 'holding' the dream together; the more of them leave, the more the dream is made inconsistent/absurd
- MC was 'dreamcaught' by some massive spell. The disturbance pulled in other dreams' denizens (Mochi, Notorious...)
- Mnemotits... Well, EndBoss might have borrowed from her powers, or made too much of a fuss in her juridiction
- Nina is an interrogation point. Probably a newborn succubus having her first dream? Like EndBoss suggests.
So EndBoss just needs to be pretty powerful, is all. With lotsa time on her hands. But no psycho murder freak.
Nobody died (that's the actual issue from the very start!), only one life (true MC's) is at stake, and the only world crumbling is the card castle EndBoss has been playing with, all for MC's sake(?).
Other victims were strictly necessary, or lives already claimed for, do the death toll was kept to a minimum. As should Endboss act if I pegged her identity right.
- meaning all succubi had to be forcefully directed/assigned to this school
- starting with Ayumu, 13-15 years before the events. Mochi was also already there, btw.
- meaning EndBoss had to guess or bet males fitting the requirements woud exist 15 years later
- MC "possesses" existing characters with traits he can relate to.
I find all the above very, very unlikely. Endboss would be a psychotic mass murderer in this setting - as any and all NPC has to die, or drown into madness.
b) it's a school in the the real world, made to partially "slip" into a dream (think SQ1's church event).
- Ayumu would still need to be there 15 years before. But she's just 1 changeling among others in other schools to choose from.
- some history could change in the process. Notably, Mochi fusing into our brand Mochi, for some reason.
- other succubi could have been introduced very late in the real world (1-2 years prior).
- or, they could have taken the place of existing girls, with little 'rewriting' needed. Either way, they had already chosen their prey, so no 'extra' bodycount would be required in the process
- most NPCs have a tenuous connection with the dream at best. It's likely they'll wake up mostly unharmed
- MC still has to possess living beings. It's likely they are the among the few ones too deep in the dream, to survive the experience.
More likely. But that still means that at least the main victims/PCs would actually die in the real world.
So far EndBoss is a mass murderer, while she is depicted as 'having a role', suggesting she must 'enforce' certain rules or a certain balance - which MC obviously upset by his actions. Yet that balance cannot possibly be upheld, by adding more unnecessary body bags to the debacle.
c) it's 99% a creation, a dream with maybe some inspiration from real world characters
- everything can be rewritten to a good extent
- all characters you meet are creations; except the Succubi who take on a role in the play
- even Ayumu's target could be yet another decoy, set up for the play's sake
- Succubi are also 'holding' the dream together; the more of them leave, the more the dream is made inconsistent/absurd
- MC was 'dreamcaught' by some massive spell. The disturbance pulled in other dreams' denizens (Mochi, Notorious...)
- Mnemotits... Well, EndBoss might have borrowed from her powers, or made too much of a fuss in her juridiction
- Nina is an interrogation point. Probably a newborn succubus having her first dream? Like EndBoss suggests.
So EndBoss just needs to be pretty powerful, is all. With lotsa time on her hands. But no psycho murder freak.
Nobody died (that's the actual issue from the very start!), only one life (true MC's) is at stake, and the only world crumbling is the card castle EndBoss has been playing with, all for MC's sake(?).
Other victims were strictly necessary, or lives already claimed for, do the death toll was kept to a minimum. As should Endboss act if I pegged her identity right.
New Game+ is also justified, by making MC feel unsatisfied, thus willing to undergo more trials, in hopes for some overlooked mousehole to wriggle out of here. If he gave up? Well, that means the job's done already.
That 'virgin' stuff is what bothers me most.
Certainly, that's a gimmick set in place so MC cannot fight back, cannot escape. Frustratingly so.
The way I see it, virgin is just a label. I'd argue, one ain't a virgin anymore once he stuck it in a wet hole, mouth included. Losing virginity is about sharing something intimate with someone else for the first time, is all.
Setting that aside, there's nothing forbidding virgins from satisfying a woman. Heck, some eunuchs in middle-eastern harems <ere renowned to give the best orgasm-givers around - not too surprising if (I said, if!) most fertile men around treat women as cattle only fit for breeding purposes.
However! This might not be how a virgin, in the truer sense, might think. Out of ignorance, shame and/or self-deprecation.
It might be plausible, to some extent, to be convinced you must go through the standard procedure before you're able to remotely satisfy a woman (which is, I insist, total bullshit. Ignorant men are the worse, period. Not being a virgin is but one excuse less.)
It also doesn't help, that most opponents have worn out several bedposts with all the notches...
So... We could infer, MC should have died a (true) virgin, and currently is an un-dead virgin. He holds some 「regret」 over that, though, and EndBoss thought it might be the best shot to get a "I want to die" from him.
By repeating the cycle of 「pop cherry -> die -> forget about it」 EndBoss probably aims to maximize his regret, up to an unbearable point; in the process, death and sex might mix up as inextricable - hence equally attractive to aim for...
The way I see it, virgin is just a label. I'd argue, one ain't a virgin anymore once he stuck it in a wet hole, mouth included. Losing virginity is about sharing something intimate with someone else for the first time, is all.
Setting that aside, there's nothing forbidding virgins from satisfying a woman. Heck, some eunuchs in middle-eastern harems <ere renowned to give the best orgasm-givers around - not too surprising if (I said, if!) most fertile men around treat women as cattle only fit for breeding purposes.
However! This might not be how a virgin, in the truer sense, might think. Out of ignorance, shame and/or self-deprecation.
It might be plausible, to some extent, to be convinced you must go through the standard procedure before you're able to remotely satisfy a woman (which is, I insist, total bullshit. Ignorant men are the worse, period. Not being a virgin is but one excuse less.)
It also doesn't help, that most opponents have worn out several bedposts with all the notches...
So... We could infer, MC should have died a (true) virgin, and currently is an un-dead virgin. He holds some 「regret」 over that, though, and EndBoss thought it might be the best shot to get a "I want to die" from him.
By repeating the cycle of 「pop cherry -> die -> forget about it」 EndBoss probably aims to maximize his regret, up to an unbearable point; in the process, death and sex might mix up as inextricable - hence equally attractive to aim for...
I could rephrase: is there a sweet, gentle way, to make someone stubborn and unwilling, accept his own death as inevitable?
I think the story is pretty neat (go figure), so my thoughts (after parsing through the dialogue probably a few too many times...)
But be warned, you think you can WoT?
Of the a/b/c settings you noted, I think "c" is kind of unlikely? Yukari mentions how she was glad to meet "more of her own kind" while pretending to be a student, and comments made by Mochizuki also make it sound like she'd been enjoying pretending to be a school nurse for many years, with her presence even being a sort of fly-in-the-ointment for the final boss' original plans (but ironically, one whose presence actually made those plans work in the end). Regardless, she seemed to know more about how things in the world worked than the final boss did. I know she's also a character from the SQ games, but I don't know anything about those, so I can't comment if that fits with her character or not. But the idea that everything was made up solely to guide the "true protagonist" out of his curse doesn't seem to jive, to me?
That said, I think there may have been even more set up in "reality" than we're initially led to believe, as well. When you first arrive at the Guidance Consoler's Office, the Gravedigger mentions that every grave there is "yours". However, there are a lot more graves than just the ones for the 8 protagonists, and several other minor NPCs (the kendo team captain, the unaffiliated boy who was obsessed with Pixies, etc) die and leave behind Mementos to be buried in that cemetery as well. So the impression I'm left with is that a large number of the young men at the school, and not just the protagonists, were reincarnations of the true protagonist. So the final boss basically did manipulate fate to get the setting to come to that point, and did have all those people killed, but all of them, not just a few, had been the target(s) all along. Rather, it's just as we're told initially, the eight protagonists are special even among the reincarnations simply because, by coincidence, they're also the ones that happen to be virgins (possibly, like you thought, because this tied into the true protagonist's regret?).
Similarly, though, I don't think, even if things are a matter of situation "a", that they need be as devastating in terms of collateral as they might appear at first glance. A couple of the random NPCs from the Clubhouse who disappear or are fused into the "dream" in the late parts of the game cameo in the true ending scene, and are perfectly fine. The Gravedigger comments in one of the flashbacks that "Succubi rarely kill so many" and there's even some surprise expressed that Nina kills her partner, as that's stated to be something atypical for newbie Succubi. So the setting itself might be more or less what its seems, and the carnage may result in just as many legitimate bodies as we're shown, but I am lead to wonder a little if the "inevitability" of that carnage might not have been staged, and that that might tie to a slightly different motive.
That said, I think there may have been even more set up in "reality" than we're initially led to believe, as well. When you first arrive at the Guidance Consoler's Office, the Gravedigger mentions that every grave there is "yours". However, there are a lot more graves than just the ones for the 8 protagonists, and several other minor NPCs (the kendo team captain, the unaffiliated boy who was obsessed with Pixies, etc) die and leave behind Mementos to be buried in that cemetery as well. So the impression I'm left with is that a large number of the young men at the school, and not just the protagonists, were reincarnations of the true protagonist. So the final boss basically did manipulate fate to get the setting to come to that point, and did have all those people killed, but all of them, not just a few, had been the target(s) all along. Rather, it's just as we're told initially, the eight protagonists are special even among the reincarnations simply because, by coincidence, they're also the ones that happen to be virgins (possibly, like you thought, because this tied into the true protagonist's regret?).
Similarly, though, I don't think, even if things are a matter of situation "a", that they need be as devastating in terms of collateral as they might appear at first glance. A couple of the random NPCs from the Clubhouse who disappear or are fused into the "dream" in the late parts of the game cameo in the true ending scene, and are perfectly fine. The Gravedigger comments in one of the flashbacks that "Succubi rarely kill so many" and there's even some surprise expressed that Nina kills her partner, as that's stated to be something atypical for newbie Succubi. So the setting itself might be more or less what its seems, and the carnage may result in just as many legitimate bodies as we're shown, but I am lead to wonder a little if the "inevitability" of that carnage might not have been staged, and that that might tie to a slightly different motive.
Which brings me to a bit of a tangent.
What occurred to me while going through the dialogue is that the very first time we meet the true protagonist, he'd investigating Succubi and comes to the suggestion that their prey "will live in an eternal dream". And the difference between sleeping, and death, and the dreams that may happen in one or either is kind of a recurring motif in the game. On top of that, the final flashback (or possibly the second-to-final...but I think the final) doesn't say what, also has it mentioned that "He was obsessed with them to the end. Ever since his lover became one...Or maybe ever since he...", implying that what happened to his lost love might not have had anything to do with it (heck, I think there might be the slightest implication that he turned her into a Succubus in the first place, though that's probably reading very, very deeply between the lines, and seeing something that might not be there.
So what I think it comes down to is that sex may have little to do with it, and it was always about finding a way to avoid death. He sees the "eternal dream" as a way out, is confronted by death, and then uses the appearance of a "grudge" against Succubi to hunt one down who can give him what he sees as an easy out. That brings us back to the content/setting of the game, in which all of his reincarnations are gathered and the Succubi put on a great big show of how there's no big "get out of death free" card, essentially. This may or may not require the five main bosses to be in on it, more or less (which slightly contradicts something Yukari says about being surprised by it happening, but she may just have not known it was going to happen at that point in time). They may have been set up to lie in wait, more or less, then told to go wild when the time was right.
Thus, the repeated, horrifying deaths become the method to get him to reject his rejection of it, in a way. "You thought could avoid death? Then experience an eternity of dying." "Oh, look, you even succeeded in your goals? Well guess what? Death comes anyway." This also makes the bosses a little more sympathetic, perhaps? Because of the setup, they can't not kill the protagonists (Mochizuki even notes this, saying she can't save Mamoru, so she'll instead try to make his final moments pleasant). They have accepted that death is a factor in their lives, so they're trying to make the most out of everyone's time, if in the only real way they know how, due to their nature.
So what I think it comes down to is that sex may have little to do with it, and it was always about finding a way to avoid death. He sees the "eternal dream" as a way out, is confronted by death, and then uses the appearance of a "grudge" against Succubi to hunt one down who can give him what he sees as an easy out. That brings us back to the content/setting of the game, in which all of his reincarnations are gathered and the Succubi put on a great big show of how there's no big "get out of death free" card, essentially. This may or may not require the five main bosses to be in on it, more or less (which slightly contradicts something Yukari says about being surprised by it happening, but she may just have not known it was going to happen at that point in time). They may have been set up to lie in wait, more or less, then told to go wild when the time was right.
Thus, the repeated, horrifying deaths become the method to get him to reject his rejection of it, in a way. "You thought could avoid death? Then experience an eternity of dying." "Oh, look, you even succeeded in your goals? Well guess what? Death comes anyway." This also makes the bosses a little more sympathetic, perhaps? Because of the setup, they can't not kill the protagonists (Mochizuki even notes this, saying she can't save Mamoru, so she'll instead try to make his final moments pleasant). They have accepted that death is a factor in their lives, so they're trying to make the most out of everyone's time, if in the only real way they know how, due to their nature.
Umu... Interesting. I was working from a completely different premise. Not sayin' mine's right.
To be clear (contains major spoilers and hazards to sanity):
(edited to structure a bit/weed out)
To be clear (contains major spoilers and hazards to sanity):
(virgin)MC was in love with a girl. That girl was or turned into a succubus, and she ran away from him as she knew a carnal relationship could and would be lethal to him. Or possibly she went and croaked.
So MC came to loathe sucubi, and would dedicate his life to either cure, or preferably exterminate every last one of them. Dalek-style. Both options, according to SQ1, would usually require sexing them to the best orgasm they ever had.
My own view, is that PFKS has actually thought long and hard, about how to make 'her guy' swallow the pill. And the goddamn girl is strong enough to make converge many relevant lives that were due to be lost, all for the salvation/death of her darling. Atta shinikawahi.
In short, PFKS has a lot on her shoulders. Yet she doesn't resent MC, and goes out of her way, to use and abuse the only loophole in MC's stubborn minds, to help him reach the ineluctable ending/demise, in perhaps the only way MC can understand, and accept, for himself.
That much effort's the darnedest proof of affection, if I've ever seen one.
So MC came to loathe sucubi, and would dedicate his life to either cure, or preferably exterminate every last one of them. Dalek-style. Both options, according to SQ1, would usually require sexing them to the best orgasm they ever had.
Simply said, sexual frustation begets succubi. Human girls become succubi because they had reasons to be unsatisfied of, and look down upon what men could provide - sexually. And that's quite a VAST subject, as all men should know: you can't improve what you don't know you suck at.
There's also the human girls converted to newborn succubi via direct lesbian intercourse (there's an incubus in SQ3, but they seem quite rare) or simply by influence (notably wet dreams). Succubi can't feed from females, but they like having their 'innocent' fun too.
My take on SQ1's Olivia or Christin (or Marsha or Frederica) is that newborn succubi can turn back/revert if given the loving they were originally longing for - in most cases, a textbook simultaneous orgasm, with both parties doing their best in earnest. (I had a good laugh at cheaters who had Game Over with Olivia)
There's also the human girls converted to newborn succubi via direct lesbian intercourse (there's an incubus in SQ3, but they seem quite rare) or simply by influence (notably wet dreams). Succubi can't feed from females, but they like having their 'innocent' fun too.
My take on SQ1's Olivia or Christin (or Marsha or Frederica) is that newborn succubi can turn back/revert if given the loving they were originally longing for - in most cases, a textbook simultaneous orgasm, with both parties doing their best in earnest. (I had a good laugh at cheaters who had Game Over with Olivia)
However, I'm sure MC un-died a virgin. Before that, he chose the more barbaric(pragmatical?) approach to dealing with succubi: if an axe can't cut it, burn it with magic fire! Picture MC as a zealot, with an infinite-ammo flamethrower, in a world of naked, piping-hot flammable succubi...
(still my view) MC was consumed by hatred, so much that a Shinigami had to be assigned to him, so that he dies peacefully, and maybe stops giving so much paperwork to King Enma's throttlebottoms. However, MC eventually gave PFKS the middle finger and decided, fuck rest and peace, imma hunt down succuthots for eternity. (note: yes, angsty virgin. Pleonasm?)
At this point, I should insist that MC was made aware his life was to be short. Instead of facing the truth, he decided to mess directly with Death instead (instead of rumpy pumpy with sexy shinigami..). Specifically, he messed with the rule that every man should die someday.
As a side remark, Pafukissu's initial role, the way I understand it, would be to make MC accept the allegorical 'embrace of Death'. To provide him with some company in his last months/years, so he can bite it peacefully when his expiration date is due.
She even goes out of her way to save his life in a flashback - she clearly has no ill intention towards the murderous prick.
(still my view) MC was consumed by hatred, so much that a Shinigami had to be assigned to him, so that he dies peacefully, and maybe stops giving so much paperwork to King Enma's throttlebottoms. However, MC eventually gave PFKS the middle finger and decided, fuck rest and peace, imma hunt down succuthots for eternity. (note: yes, angsty virgin. Pleonasm?)
At this point, I should insist that MC was made aware his life was to be short. Instead of facing the truth, he decided to mess directly with Death instead (instead of rumpy pumpy with sexy shinigami..). Specifically, he messed with the rule that every man should die someday.
As a side remark, Pafukissu's initial role, the way I understand it, would be to make MC accept the allegorical 'embrace of Death'. To provide him with some company in his last months/years, so he can bite it peacefully when his expiration date is due.
She even goes out of her way to save his life in a flashback - she clearly has no ill intention towards the murderous prick.
The game's world is definitely PFKS's doing, imo. Less of a piece of MC's dream/mind, more of an artificial melting pot in which MC is made to drift. And the PCs are definitely characters MC can relate to. NOT reincarnations, though - you can only reincarnate once you're dead! And MC is quite obtuse on the subject. C'mon, man, first times ain't ever the best but we'all gotta go through it... Just die, dude, it's just once! It's unclear whether MC is still a complete entity, or exists as a fragmented being - both work in the scenario.
Alternatively, if we assume MC is about to die in several timelines, but not this one yet... Well, this could also make sense; getting your other selves, your other incarnations from other timelines to act in the current play. But that still sounds far-fetched (to me) compared to my own fav theory. Not that I have the license to back up such claims xD
I must admit, the 'flou artistisque' is London's smog-thick. SQDT's the only ones who can tell... And I'd rather they don't, honestly. Mystery's a good spice, room for intepretation a good flavouring.
We're at this point in SA's premise. Well, more of a standstill. Maybe MC can still go hunt down succubi in another plane of existence with chilisauce-filled enemas. Or maybe, like I think, he's permanently stuck between life and death - with no hopes of going towards one or the other.
Alternatively, if we assume MC is about to die in several timelines, but not this one yet... Well, this could also make sense; getting your other selves, your other incarnations from other timelines to act in the current play. But that still sounds far-fetched (to me) compared to my own fav theory. Not that I have the license to back up such claims xD
I must admit, the 'flou artistisque' is London's smog-thick. SQDT's the only ones who can tell... And I'd rather they don't, honestly. Mystery's a good spice, room for intepretation a good flavouring.
We're at this point in SA's premise. Well, more of a standstill. Maybe MC can still go hunt down succubi in another plane of existence with chilisauce-filled enemas. Or maybe, like I think, he's permanently stuck between life and death - with no hopes of going towards one or the other.
In short, PFKS has a lot on her shoulders. Yet she doesn't resent MC, and goes out of her way, to use and abuse the only loophole in MC's stubborn minds, to help him reach the ineluctable ending/demise, in perhaps the only way MC can understand, and accept, for himself.
That much effort's the darnedest proof of affection, if I've ever seen one.
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I dunno, defeating death and becoming the eternal succubus slayer sounds like a pretty boss move to me. Trying to stop him isn't cool at all.
Well, he kinda failed pathetically. Probably. Or maybe SA2 will have him as the ultimate ⚔ Succubus sLayer ⚔ MC.
And PFKS is cool. Fite me.
Since I stubbornly went on my selfish track... (lucky for us our tranlator is more open-minded
)That works out. If I reword: MC, instead of dying a plain old boring death, fragmented into shards (SQ1's Guildenstern-style). PFK-chu went and caught 'em all, to gather them in a single place. Maybe these shards incarnated in living people/babies, or maybe PFKS had to shove them into proper vessels (ouch).
I would still disagree with her intentions and cruelty. The way I read it, she never manages to get angry against MC, and every cruel line of her sounds like a sad morbid joke at worse.
Case in point, 'Then experience an eternity of dying' would refer to the irony, that she's trying to end his pain and put him to rest, while the 'eternity of dying' would exactly be where MC would stand forever, without her assistance.
I would still disagree with her intentions and cruelty. The way I read it, she never manages to get angry against MC, and every cruel line of her sounds like a sad morbid joke at worse.
Case in point, 'Then experience an eternity of dying' would refer to the irony, that she's trying to end his pain and put him to rest, while the 'eternity of dying' would exactly be where MC would stand forever, without her assistance.
Mochi... is really confused. She's not really our Est, just a small fragment of her pulled into this world (very early, it would seem). She has some understanding on the situation, but not much.
I don't believe she's talking to Mamoru directly, instead she regrets she's meeting with him yet not 100% him anymore. She's aware of the fate he cannot escape - possibly due to the aforementioned shard coming into play sometime after he graduated (from school).
In your theory, it would be indeed be likely, that side characters are not completely unrelated. Perhaps they're the vessels of the smaller shards of MC. Making their memento relevant - though not as much as the major pieces.
In that case, MC's actions would have been a death sentence to anyone exposed to his shards. Making him quite the villain, whether he intended the result or not.
And the Succubi? Well, they're just here for fun. As useful pawns. imo PFKS only uses Succubi because she believes MC's virginity(furigana: regret) is the biggest chink in the armor. And she's horny. Very. We can infer from the memos, that the flashback happened centuries ago. A girl gets pent up too.
The nototious? They only become relevant once MC sufficiently comes together(pun intended). At this point, looking for them, is an allegory for willingly heading to his doom (which has become confused/muddled with salvation/escape). I see little cruelty in that, looking at the big picture.
I don't believe she's talking to Mamoru directly, instead she regrets she's meeting with him yet not 100% him anymore. She's aware of the fate he cannot escape - possibly due to the aforementioned shard coming into play sometime after he graduated (from school).
In your theory, it would be indeed be likely, that side characters are not completely unrelated. Perhaps they're the vessels of the smaller shards of MC. Making their memento relevant - though not as much as the major pieces.
In that case, MC's actions would have been a death sentence to anyone exposed to his shards. Making him quite the villain, whether he intended the result or not.
And the Succubi? Well, they're just here for fun. As useful pawns. imo PFKS only uses Succubi because she believes MC's virginity(furigana: regret) is the biggest chink in the armor. And she's horny. Very. We can infer from the memos, that the flashback happened centuries ago. A girl gets pent up too.
The nototious? They only become relevant once MC sufficiently comes together(pun intended). At this point, looking for them, is an allegory for willingly heading to his doom (which has become confused/muddled with salvation/escape). I see little cruelty in that, looking at the big picture.
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I might be the only one to think it, but...
It more looks like that Pfks is just being a stubborn idiot as she was to make sure that the succubus-hating magus (who lost his own lover/wife to succubi when she turned) ended up passing away according to the laws of nature. However, when he used a ritual to kill all succubi (which failed), the outcome somehow let to him defying nature and consequently having his soul split and used by a hero.
At this point, she could have given up on him, maybe she was even supposed to since, as he died in an unusual way, it was no longer her domain. However, by then, she had fallen for him even if he didn't return any feelings (the black mourning veil in the following cutscenes is the biggest giveaway), and decided that she would be able to get to him by chopping his soul, and getting those shards killed again by succubi in another world (because said guy wanted to murder them, which is kinda impossible by their nature in this universe). This world is the one where Succubus Academia ends up happening, and apparently she started her plan a few years before the game.
This is where I start to think that she's either malicious or completely underestimated the impact bringing succubi in her plan would would have.
Because succubi are also not part of the natural order. They belong to the Land of Night/Dream or whatever you want to call it, and exist as long as stories about them exist, as "Not-Est" tells us on the True End route. She even leans hard on the 4th wall with the whole "succubies don't die, they're stories and like stories they're adapted", hence the differences with Est from Succubus Quest.
The result? Pfk's blindsided by the presence of "Not-Est" and the turning of Nina, and tries to keep the protag away from the Notorious. However, what happens if the hero doesn't deal with them too? Well, he's stuck in this nightmare again and again, with Pfk to guide him... Maybe like she wanted after all.
However, if he deals with all those extras, he's not pulled in the Nightmare again and his soul ends up on the edge of oblivion. Dunno why, maybe it's because the addition of "unaffected soul" alter his memory, maybe it's because he's more attuned to the Land of Night after so much snu-snu, or, more apparently, it's because Pfk's little game ends up with a mish-mash of worlds that she can't clean as it's maintained by Notorious succubi that are out of her domain. In any case, "Not-Est" steps in, drops some exposition and guides the current protagonist to have him remove the Notorious by satisfying them and actually cleaning up the side effects of Pfk's little plan to have each world returns to its spot.
As the protag deals with them, he recovers his memories as the MC, his story if you prefer. Probably because as (ironically) they're not part of Pfk's plan at all (Reminder that she did tell you to keep away from those doors when she was with you), it does bring the ironic death needed to each of his shard through the protag you summon each time.
THEN he can actually pass on. He finally ends up in the land of the dead as he would have if he died according to the law of nature, and meets Pfk in the flesh.
Pfk challenges him to the usual BF fight because she wants to humiliate him more. If the protag loses to her, it's return to the beginning of the game with a few additional insults and have fun getting through all that again. He pretty much needs to get her off to acknowledge that she did all that because she wants him.
And only if she gets happy enough with that guy does her mess stop happening. Fortunately I don't think NPCs got to understand what happened to them during all those loops.
I rest my case. Pfks sucks.
-She brought in pawns that made her lose control
-Her advices keep the MC in that nightmare
-Said MC is a guy she fell for, better not know why since he didn't care at all for her.
-Said MC was an idiot who wanted to kill succubi, which is impossible because of their nature in that universe.
-If MC fixes that whole mess of her plan and his actions lead to the result she wanted, her last ditch effort is to BF him to throw him back at step 1 (I guess to keep him dependant on her)
In the end, I can't really sympathize with either Pfks or the MC. They're both people who completely gave themselves to their single-minded plans at the cost of everything else.
In the end, they're made for each other!
At this point, she could have given up on him, maybe she was even supposed to since, as he died in an unusual way, it was no longer her domain. However, by then, she had fallen for him even if he didn't return any feelings (the black mourning veil in the following cutscenes is the biggest giveaway), and decided that she would be able to get to him by chopping his soul, and getting those shards killed again by succubi in another world (because said guy wanted to murder them, which is kinda impossible by their nature in this universe). This world is the one where Succubus Academia ends up happening, and apparently she started her plan a few years before the game.
This is where I start to think that she's either malicious or completely underestimated the impact bringing succubi in her plan would would have.
Because succubi are also not part of the natural order. They belong to the Land of Night/Dream or whatever you want to call it, and exist as long as stories about them exist, as "Not-Est" tells us on the True End route. She even leans hard on the 4th wall with the whole "succubies don't die, they're stories and like stories they're adapted", hence the differences with Est from Succubus Quest.
The result? Pfk's blindsided by the presence of "Not-Est" and the turning of Nina, and tries to keep the protag away from the Notorious. However, what happens if the hero doesn't deal with them too? Well, he's stuck in this nightmare again and again, with Pfk to guide him... Maybe like she wanted after all.
However, if he deals with all those extras, he's not pulled in the Nightmare again and his soul ends up on the edge of oblivion. Dunno why, maybe it's because the addition of "unaffected soul" alter his memory, maybe it's because he's more attuned to the Land of Night after so much snu-snu, or, more apparently, it's because Pfk's little game ends up with a mish-mash of worlds that she can't clean as it's maintained by Notorious succubi that are out of her domain. In any case, "Not-Est" steps in, drops some exposition and guides the current protagonist to have him remove the Notorious by satisfying them and actually cleaning up the side effects of Pfk's little plan to have each world returns to its spot.
As the protag deals with them, he recovers his memories as the MC, his story if you prefer. Probably because as (ironically) they're not part of Pfk's plan at all (Reminder that she did tell you to keep away from those doors when she was with you), it does bring the ironic death needed to each of his shard through the protag you summon each time.
THEN he can actually pass on. He finally ends up in the land of the dead as he would have if he died according to the law of nature, and meets Pfk in the flesh.
Pfk challenges him to the usual BF fight because she wants to humiliate him more. If the protag loses to her, it's return to the beginning of the game with a few additional insults and have fun getting through all that again. He pretty much needs to get her off to acknowledge that she did all that because she wants him.
And only if she gets happy enough with that guy does her mess stop happening. Fortunately I don't think NPCs got to understand what happened to them during all those loops.
I rest my case. Pfks sucks.
-She brought in pawns that made her lose control
-Her advices keep the MC in that nightmare
-Said MC is a guy she fell for, better not know why since he didn't care at all for her.
-Said MC was an idiot who wanted to kill succubi, which is impossible because of their nature in that universe.
-If MC fixes that whole mess of her plan and his actions lead to the result she wanted, her last ditch effort is to BF him to throw him back at step 1 (I guess to keep him dependant on her)
In the end, I can't really sympathize with either Pfks or the MC. They're both people who completely gave themselves to their single-minded plans at the cost of everything else.
In the end, they're made for each other!
Hilarious! My first playthrough, in a nutshell!
I was this close to cuntpunting both PFK-ing-S and the game to the recycle bin too!
Hey, that's how you can tell a piece of art is art: the many different interpretations, the open door for your imagination to go wild.
SA definitely has a strong touch of Romantisme (XIXth Lumières-style). Heroines back then could be equally loathable/lovable.
You've noted yourself, how many inconsistences cannot be resolved, with your current surmises. The pieces of the puzzle look like they could fit, but really don't. We won't ever get the whole picture right, and that's the whole appeal of this story.
SA definitely has a strong touch of Romantisme (XIXth Lumières-style). Heroines back then could be equally loathable/lovable.
You've noted yourself, how many inconsistences cannot be resolved, with your current surmises. The pieces of the puzzle look like they could fit, but really don't. We won't ever get the whole picture right, and that's the whole appeal of this story.
if I understand correctly, there are common succubi and True succubi.
Most succubi would be concepts, fantasies, stories - or actual persons who got twisted by the influence of a True succubus; the latter are powerful enough to warp reality as we conceive it. The former came to get a life and will of their own - along with the trademark lust.
In that sense they're very much part of the natural order - as much as any book or anime character. Just, otherworldly, abiding by different, but relatable rules. Shaped mostly by human imagination, to begin with.
They would exist in a different world (the Land of Night, would be it or part of it), which is connected to ours by dreams. Wet dreams would be the textbook example of 'inviting a succubus in'. Succubus and dreamer would meet in a space between both realities.
As Dream demons, their existence is in-between the two, so their actual form can vary according to the beholder/dreamer/victim - as they strive to become the best bait for their prey.
However, where different dreams from different people connect, they would assume a less specialized appearance, fitting their whim and/or to appeal to most.
Also, in rare cases (like SQ1 OP/invasion) they can partially materialize in our world. Or a human can get trapped in an especially deep dream (magic, coma, near-death experience...). Notably, True succubi are supposedly buff enough to open portals to other worlds just by prancing around.
How you can interact with succubi, will depend on their rules from their world. Their kinks, specifically.
Most succubi would be concepts, fantasies, stories - or actual persons who got twisted by the influence of a True succubus; the latter are powerful enough to warp reality as we conceive it. The former came to get a life and will of their own - along with the trademark lust.
In that sense they're very much part of the natural order - as much as any book or anime character. Just, otherworldly, abiding by different, but relatable rules. Shaped mostly by human imagination, to begin with.
They would exist in a different world (the Land of Night, would be it or part of it), which is connected to ours by dreams. Wet dreams would be the textbook example of 'inviting a succubus in'. Succubus and dreamer would meet in a space between both realities.
As Dream demons, their existence is in-between the two, so their actual form can vary according to the beholder/dreamer/victim - as they strive to become the best bait for their prey.
However, where different dreams from different people connect, they would assume a less specialized appearance, fitting their whim and/or to appeal to most.
Also, in rare cases (like SQ1 OP/invasion) they can partially materialize in our world. Or a human can get trapped in an especially deep dream (magic, coma, near-death experience...). Notably, True succubi are supposedly buff enough to open portals to other worlds just by prancing around.
How you can interact with succubi, will depend on their rules from their world. Their kinks, specifically.
You can't kill succubi, theoretically. But you can banish them back to their 'home dream'. With quality snu-snu.
It's also possible to cut their connection to whatever dream/world they're invading, and that would usually mean banishing the True succubus responsible for the breach. Easier said than done - says Lars.
These 'breaches', places where our reality overlaps with the succubi', is precisely where MC was aiming.
I'm convinced that the initial plan he took part in, by the King's order, was to recover a powerful artifact to seal off the breaches - simply to prevent succubi from drifting into our world.
It's called a "Key", likely because it was intended to interact with breaches. Logically, this implies harnessing a power comparable to that of True succubi (AKA walking nuclear bombshells).
But MC had other plans, and ultimately tried to use the artifact to provoke a cataclysm in Land of Night - to destroy succubi at the very source. Since the Key was shown to absorb or damage life (kudos to collateral damage-kun) MC probably was aiming at the succubi' very essence - in other words, to kill the dream.
And then, derp happened. Incidentally, MC saved PFKS' life in the end - intentionally or not. Or maybe he thought he couldn't cope with creative cynism for centuries. The uncultured nitwit, ikr?
It's also possible to cut their connection to whatever dream/world they're invading, and that would usually mean banishing the True succubus responsible for the breach. Easier said than done - says Lars.
These 'breaches', places where our reality overlaps with the succubi', is precisely where MC was aiming.
I'm convinced that the initial plan he took part in, by the King's order, was to recover a powerful artifact to seal off the breaches - simply to prevent succubi from drifting into our world.
It's called a "Key", likely because it was intended to interact with breaches. Logically, this implies harnessing a power comparable to that of True succubi (AKA walking nuclear bombshells).
But MC had other plans, and ultimately tried to use the artifact to provoke a cataclysm in Land of Night - to destroy succubi at the very source. Since the Key was shown to absorb or damage life (kudos to collateral damage-kun) MC probably was aiming at the succubi' very essence - in other words, to kill the dream.
And then, derp happened. Incidentally, MC saved PFKS' life in the end - intentionally or not. Or maybe he thought he couldn't cope with creative cynism for centuries. The uncultured nitwit, ikr?
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I'm noticing some similarities to Jungian metaphysics, which should mean that there ARE ways for humans to influence the supernatural of their own power, just tell everyone that a succubus-slaying weapon exists and the group unconscious should shit out an archetype that can manage it.
I agree; usually you wouldn't imagine vampires, without the sun and crosses and garlic etc.etc.
But interestingly, Succubi, from any origin I can think of, all lack an actual weakness. Virtue aside, but it pisses them off, is all.
As a perplexing example, I have a good read for you.
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Yes, the good old XVth century's witch torcher's handbook.
A 'Morceau choisi', so you know I'm not trolling and you might have a surprisingly fun time:
note: he's referring to Ezekiel 16 (in KJV) afterwards.
To vulgarise: killing a devil is as ridiculous an idea as killing an angel. Don't let them in, is all you can do.
Mikufanboy
Tentacle Monster
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Psssh, I'd like to see a succubi survive after sucking the barrel of my .45.
Jokes aside, nothing is immortal and every material currently viable has it's chemical, gases or temperature limitations and reactions. If we just apply the normal laws to the fantasy in that sense, their weakness is merely something we haven't tried yet. There's no reason not to apply these laws, it's so natural that writers basically omit the need to breathe oxygen because of how matter of fact it is, and mystical beings should be no different, or if only more unique in their requirements. Probably because we're suppose to be the prey that no one has devised a proper way to fight them, but even a cornered rat would fight back.
Jokes aside, nothing is immortal and every material currently viable has it's chemical, gases or temperature limitations and reactions. If we just apply the normal laws to the fantasy in that sense, their weakness is merely something we haven't tried yet. There's no reason not to apply these laws, it's so natural that writers basically omit the need to breathe oxygen because of how matter of fact it is, and mystical beings should be no different, or if only more unique in their requirements. Probably because we're suppose to be the prey that no one has devised a proper way to fight them, but even a cornered rat would fight back.
Nice! you got my point:
Everytime we use our familyline's Excalibur on a Succubus, we are actually fearless pioneers, dutiful scholars probing the great Unknown;
Heroes, even! wouldn't be scretching it by much.
I'm not sure about .45's, but if you're loaded, women barely need be given an inch - and some gladly get behind that. That much, I could vouch for the accuracy?
And well, MC here might have issues with unsheating... So he did go for the less poetic channel to a breakthrough.
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Good grief that's a hard read. To be fair, attempting to infer the properties of a being with only references in scripture is a difficult task and deciding whether to directly translate the author's words or exchange them for phrasing which can convey the information better within the new language is tricky. I do wonder if the author was treating it like a technical manual and didn't wish to put forth methods that they couldn't confirm the efficacy of. I'm woefully uninformed of modern religions because, well... most of the mythology is designed to proselytize which makes them alot less enjoyable to me.
From what I do know monotheism is kind of unique in that the divine, it's agents and their infernal counterparts aren't so much actors within the world but forces which are a part of the world and I think this lends to them not being kill able in any real sense. Try killing magnetism or heat. Whereas in older mythologies members of their pantheons are responsible for certain events or forces but they themselves do not constitute the force; Thor for example, is the god of thunder but he is not thunder. Of course in the viking mythology, almost all the gods die come ragnarok ( some before ).
I've got a bit of a contradiction for you: if angels can't be killed why was there a war in heaven? Lucifer and those that allied with him never could have overcome Micheal and the holy host.
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Really depends on the content of the post.
That would go in the RP sub, not here. And yeah it's a bit of a ghost town in there right now.
Interesting, but maybe we should keep the tangent short? I can PM the whole thing, if you insist. My conclusion might be answer enough:
(in short: we're discussing Descartes' Cogito: the step right before, and right after; "Existence" is both fickle, yet eternal.)in Alexandrines. Because. Failed poet said:
Back to a SQDT-er matter; for some reason I never noticed:
(from sqdt.jp/products/) 夢の魔物とお伽の騎士団 - 2021年開発再開予定
They're actually planning to resume "SQ3" - the SRPG/FFTactics-style game from back then!
(
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