ACT Shota [ExcessM] 廻るハゴコロ / Mawaru Hagokoro (RJ325142)

[HQQ]

I don't know why so many people are having issue with bugs and gameplays... I haven't encountered any bugs even when I actively look for them, well unless if you count facial expressions in the Editing mode a bug. Gameplay is easy enough that you can play with 1 hand while the other do other things, it's easy to bully the girls for ryona content; but also easy to get a "bad critical" or hit by a seduction if you're not paying attention for femdom content. It's the perfect mix imo.
There's no grinding either, you just need to learn how the weapons work by reading the infos... And once you've found the ones that apply "Shock" status, it gets even easier.

 

[Someone92]

That would surprise me, as no other JP game on my machine has these kinds of issues.

It depends on where the developer used Japanese signs.

If they used none => You can run the game normally
If they used them in the code => You need to start the game with Jap non-unicode
If they used them in the file names => You need to unzip the game with Jap non-unicode, and properly start the game with Jap non-unicode, too

Most Jap developers at least do not use Jap signs in the files' names, this is why you are mostly fine with just starting them with Jap non-unicode

 

[TheUnsaid]

This game isn't hard.

There's equipment called "I'm Enlightenmenter" flag. This equipment makes it so enemies only use temptation attacks and no physical attacks but grant you twice the exp. Unequip this accessory and the game goes back to normal. That being said, even with I'm Enlightenmenter, you can just use red weapon to decimate foes and stop enemy temptation attacks.

 

[Triplebrc]

For anything, even the edit features, in this game to work I always have to switch the date format to japanese. This is the first game in over 10 years of playing eroge that forces me to do this, which makes it seem to me like the dev must have messed up somewhere, but creating a short command to do it with one click is not exactly a big deal so I am not really bothered by it too much.
What I am bothered by is that the custom scenario feature is nearly useless to create anything more elaborate than a single scene with a single character. You have no real control to manage which of the characters does what, no way to switch them around, you even have to use a workaround to give them dialogues because the basic feature only allows your character to say something and to do general narration. If I did not overlook anything then this is a far cry from what was promised.

Edit: Saw one of the devs posts, it included a text editor with further commands that give slightly more control, and a few more options that have been excluded from the normal editor for no reason, like Gens blushing face and Gens ecstasy face. I have yet to figure out where the custom data is actually saved so I can even use the commands, but honestly by this point I am starting to get over it, it feels like the dev went out of his way to make everything related to the game more tedious than it needed to be.

You might want to read their manual thorougly. I know for a a fact they've left a whole lot of features available to the common user (no matter his mother tongue, to quote Rammstein).

Yeah I found it, but nothing I have seen so far was of any help when it comes to implementing the commands that were stripped away from the normal UI, and I am kinda tired of looking into it further for now.

 

[Strange]

What I am bothered by is that the custom scenario feature is nearly useless to create anything more elaborate than a single scene with a single character. You have no real control to manage which of the characters does what, no way to switch them around, you even have to use a workaround to give them dialogues because the basic feature only allows your character to say something and to do general narration. If I did not overlook anything then this is a far cry from what was promised.

You might want to read their manual thorougly. I know for a a fact they've left a whole lot of features available to the common user (no matter his mother tongue, to quote Rammstein). It's not very easy, I'll give you that.


I'm really not a fan of this one.
As for gameplay, the power balance is the very worst of their titles so far. Most items have a game-breaking combo of sorts (good or bad).
As for art... I'm not a thicc enthusiast, but these butts are flat. Yumesame had many personalities and the bodies to go along them. But now, I'm fighting a flat clone of another flat opponent (in body and mind).

As said, above, this one's probably a (cheap!) Unity test product. They can do so much better - be it writing or the above. It doesn't help, that we incarnate the most ballsless MC in ExcessM's history. Gutsy characters (despite the freaking age) were their forte until today. (not to mention we impersonate an ojii-san this time around... )

 

[TheUnsaid]

Don't be too hard on him.

Personally, I agree that some of the features he's added
such as creating your own characters, creating your own scenarios and the like are superfluous.
I even wrote as such in my direct message's response to him.

Hopefully it doesn't completely dissuade him from thinking about his western fans in the future.

That being said, Hagokoro is definitely less "feature-packed" as his previous games. Less enemies, and weaker post-game. This is most likely due to the fact that he added so many superfluous features while also getting the hang of Unity.

Also while he says the game is machine translated, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also hand edited at parts. Machine translation doesn't make a distinction in gender when it comes to "HE" or "SHE" but the machine translation we have does. The terminology is also consistent and not something a machine would come up with on its own.

He really does get hounded by his western fans whenever he opens up comments, and he could just be disillusioned by us? Or he could just generally be weak to criticism.
I mostly only criticized the UI and lack of content. Not even harshly too, just generally and made sure I wrote that I liked the game but he still responded like this. Hagokoro must've been stressful to develop.

 

[Triplebrc]

He really does get hounded by his western fans whenever he opens up comments, and he could just be disillusioned by us? Or he could just generally be weak to criticism.
I mostly only criticized the UI and lack of content. Not even harshly too, just generally and made sure I wrote that I liked the game but he still responded like this. Hagokoro must've been stressful to develop.

This is the reason why I pretty much stopped giving direct feedback, as japanese devs in general seem to be rather sensitive and I felt people shitting all over the very first demo in that comment section was probably too much for him to handle already. There are many things I don't get about this game, mainly why he thought it was a good idea to have almost all important characters share the exact same animations as the common grunts, or the weird balance, or named side characters being pretty much irrelevant, but I am sure plenty of people have brought that to his attention already so no use in throwing it into his face another time. I have a hard time believing that the western audience is so much more demanding that it turns him from being chill to being close to a heart attack though, but I don't mind him focussing on the japanese part and just wait until a circle translates his work either if he thinks that it will improve the overall quality of his next game.

 

[TheUnsaid]

mainly why he thought it was a good idea to have almost all important characters share the exact same animations as the common grunts,

Other way around.
He wrote about it in one of his dev blogs.

named side characters being pretty much irrelevant

Yeah, no this I disagree with. The side characters are very important.
In fact each of the 3 main bosses has a general on your side they have some emotional relation too.

The only 2 side characters that disappear really quickly are the ones from chapter 1 and that's it.

I have a hard time believing that the western audience is so much more demanding that it turns him from being chill to being close to a heart attack though

Atlus has a youtube channel called atlustube. This is a japanese youtube channel where everything is written in Japanese. Go into the comments section for the SMTV daily demon showcase videos and the japanese fans are completely overwhelmed by the western fans. You'd think it was just another western video.

Same thing happened to ExcessM.

When he opened up comments the amount of english you'd see in comparison to Japanese was ridiculous as a ratio. Not to mention most of the english was people complaining about Yumesame's lack of a translation now that they had an avenue to contact him with. When the first demo was released tons of people were complaining about the game not working AND also being too hard wishing he would dial back the difficulty.

As a game developer, I know that general fans are babies and bad at games, but ExcessM already had a policy of not talking to fans. He takes EVERYTHING to heart and very seriously. Just 14% of the western users finding trouble starting the game hurt. But honestly... it's not all his responsibility. Demos exist to test whether or not a project runs on your system (as well as minimum requirements.) and he made the game in Unity so he's not responsible for any issues really, but he still took the responsibility heavily. For 14% of western users. Users who are going out of their way to play a Japanese developed game.

___

I'd say Devs need thicker skin and more selfishness, but ExcessM seems to also be quite financially pragmatic in his general outreach / quality of product.
Me personally, I'd rather he focus completely on the quality of the product.

 

[Strange]

Don't be too hard on him.

Yes, Japanese devs are responsible, sensible, usually keep their promises, and keep their audience in mind. I'm not sure which part I would urge Western devs to emulate more. Especially, Japanese devs do not fail to inform about the progress of development, lack thereof, or discontinuation thereof.
Japanese fanbase is usually well-behaved, respectful towards individuals and especially towards the work amount the former did. Again, worth emulating, that which I'm trying to.

Western audience reap what they sow. I never blamed Japanese devs for looking down on us and our education, or case in point, lack thereof. Personally, I strive to respect good work, regardless the doer's skin color or social class. Remember, on Internet, you're your country's foreign affairs representative. Feel free to wipe your behind with your country's flag, star-spangled or otherwise, but I won't condone that nor incent others to do so. Pass the word.

Personally, I was only mildly harsh after contributing some of my time to update the OP, hence promotion, with a rather praiseful, if unequivocal tone. Feel free to add on to that, of course, it's your OP.
I'd add, the asses I mentioned only need two lines/curves drawn to look peachy, as they should. As any game since 2012's 王様はおねショタの夢を見る had done, and done well. Like the Unity CASINO game did. And whatever critics I have would not outweigh the fact this game is a great cost/value product, like stressed previously, and like any other ExcessM release so far.

I'll be the first to laugh and scorn the Western fanbois, should they not improve the MTL. I have other matters to attend to currently (in the helping out quality H-games category) but I'd love to see how much the Western fans can do, before I have time to pinch in. And I might not do a thing if they've just been lazy chicks begging to be spoonfed in the meanwhile. Or I might show the right example, for once. Like we all should.

Have you? (directed at any and all readers: \HAGOKORO_Data\StreamingAssets\NonJpn*.txt)
As a repeat:

Non-Japanese text is in the "HAGOKORO_\HAGOKORO_Data\StreamingAssets" directory
and can be edited by the user.
The current text is automatically translated, so please volunteer to translate it.

 

[TheUnsaid]

It doesn't help, that we incarnate the most ballsless MC in ExcessM's history. Gutsy characters (despite the freaking age) were their forte until today.

I didn't read this till now, but I completely disagree.

Gen's got balls that literally no one can challenge. The only other MC that could challenge Gen might be the weapon master of Parade Buster.
The MC from the original Onee-shota game has no confidence and is quite passive. The soccer kid who was his best friend was a punk kid but hated the situation he was in. He was never confident about his situation or in control. YumeSame's MC needs a lot of encouragement from his heroines and allies to make decisions.

In this story, Gen before getting turned into a shota attempts an assassination on the main villain because he understands her villainous nature, and doesn't want to wait for this villain to get stronger and gain more influence before taking her down. After getting "withered" and all of his powers stolen, he goes right back to his teacher and GETS HIS POWERS BACK. He's literally the only person in that entire world that is skilled enough to master all 3 forms, and he does it twice. The guy's an insane badass. He directly changes the course of the war by taking out high ranking officials, and no one forces him to do this. He's making these strategic decisions on his own.

When he frees the princess and he gains the ability to fight against the country using another "country" he's the frontline combatant that makes or breaks all of their combat strategy.

The only thing that would make him "ungutsy" is the enlightenmenter stuff and that's legit magic that shouldn't account for your perception of his personality.

I never blamed Japanese devs for looking down on us and our education, or case in point, lack thereof.

I think that mentality is too fatalistic.
Japan's a small country in the grand scheme of things.

The west means everywhere else.
All European countries, especially Russia.
North AND South America.
All of Africa.

On the internet, everywhere basically asks you to use English. Since there's more potential for akward weirdos all around the world to know about excessM there's a higher chance that western consumers have a higher chance of being insanely cringe. That being said, the silent majority know exactly what they're doing and are generally good well meaning people. ExcessM's not just supporting western audiences because he notices he has fans in the west. It's also because of the financial benefit he saw when he released his game on Steam.

 

[Weoooo]

Japan speaks Japanese. The whole world speaks english as a second language, so english comments come from literally everywhere. I'm not surprised it's overwhelming.

 

[Civilincubus]

I'm not sure if it's "Westerners" or English speakers when it seems like more of a problem for folks, particularly men, in the US. Many men in the US, and hentai-porn viewers in particular struggle with social skills and so have little understanding of low context/high content versus high context/low content languages as well as cultural differences in how to motivate. In effect, US men in general tend to errantly believe that overt criticism is the best way to create change; whereas Japanese folk may prefer more subtle and indirect criticism, such as noting a challenge without a critique.

 

[Strange]

Gen's got balls [...]
The only thing that would make him "ungutsy" is the enlightenment

Yes, I admit I was a tad unfair. Or very, maybe.
But scenario and story-wise, so far in ExcessM history, he's the weakest little b*tch against women. Absolutely not his fault, "magic", but I definitely can't self-insert into a character with so unfair circumstances. I mean, he's almost a Dieselm*ne character at this point. I feel bad for his 1st pal's sister (nooo a woman!!!).

That said, he's smart, doesn't let the awfully unfair scenario cut his ba... drive, and is pretty badass all-around. And at least the curse make him have a nose better than a dog's to spot his next rapist opponent.
Also, I really appreciate that there is a REAL story this time around, and a feeling of progression despite the discarded sub-missions; all around making this story more interesting than the ante-yumesame titles'. Congrats, ExcessM.

Conversely, this makes this an odd title to start a quality translation support with. A simple CASINO game or Smashboy would have been simpler picks with over 10 times fewer lines. I still hope the Western community will heed his call, despite that.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Japan speaks Japanese. The whole world speaks english as a second language, so english comments come from literally everywhere. I'm not surprised it's overwhelming.

Yeah, I'm of the exact same opinion.

I'm not sure if it's "Westerners" or English speakers when it seems like more of a problem for folks, particularly men, in the US. Many men in the US, and hentai-porn viewers in particular struggle with social skills and so have little understanding of low context/high content versus high context/low content languages as well as cultural differences in how to motivate. In effect, US men in general tend to errantly believe that overt criticism is the best way to create change; whereas Japanese folk may prefer more subtle and indirect criticism, such as noting a challenge without a critique.

This isn't a US centric problem.
Bad grammar in those posts usually indicate self-taught English which is very common in European countries.

It's more of a West/East divide than it is a Japan/USA divide in my experience.

But scenario and story-wise, so far in ExcessM history, he's the weakest little b*tch against women. Absolutely not his fault, "magic", but I definitely can't self-insert into a character with so unfair circumstances. I mean, he's almost a Dieselm*ne character at this point. I feel bad for his 1st pal's sister (nooo a woman!!!).

Weakest in ExcessM history?
You're kidding right?

Casino boy, the original Shouta-kun, and Jan-ken boy have a word to speak to you. (and that's not to mention the super crazy subs in his manga)
Doesn't the boy in Yumesame get fucked in the ass by a horse cock? Heck in Yumesame, if his lust gets high enough he'll just start fapping on his own. At least Gen has an option when he's high lust, to risk it all and be instantly defeated or purge his own lust and get in a sneak attack.

___
I'm really having trouble seeing what makes him so different from other ExcessM heroes.
Heck reverse rape games are generally like this.

The male protagonist never overwhelms the women. The only difference here is that this MC is weak to temptation cause of magic stuff.

feeling of progression despite the discarded sub-missions

I mean they're not gone, they just don't really have light story context for them.
It's the Trial&Training section.
Has the same mission types as Parade Buster, and Smash Boy. Do X amount of damage, finish this fight without taking damage and all that. There's even an escort mission where you deliver cargo and you're supposed to keep it safe.

 

[Civilincubus]

This isn't a US centric problem.
Bad grammar in those posts usually indicate self-taught English which is very common in European countries.

It's more of a West/East divide than it is a Japan/USA divide in my experience.

Well, I admit entitlement is certainly a very western thing. Though I do think in terms of prevalence/degree that US folk like myself tend to be amongst the most entitled. We use the "national melting pot"/assimilation and race/culture-blindness as permission to be ignorant asshats. That said, I love ExcessM compared to the ROBF creator, his anti-piracy attempts were more fueled by gaijing-hating, and his games didn't even apologize for shameless reusing of old content/animations/plot.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Well, I admit entitlement is certainly a very western thing. Though I do think in terms of prevalence/degree that US folk like myself tend to be amongst the most entitled. We use the "national melting pot"/assimilation and race/culture-blindness as permission to be ignorant asshats. That said, I love ExcessM compared to the ROBF creator, his anti-piracy attempts were more fueled by gaijing-hating, and his games didn't even apologize for shameless reusing of old content/animations/plot.

I mean... I disagree there too.
Have you seen Hakika's Japanese fans?

It's not purely a western/eastern thing in terms of desire I'd say.
It's just that the population difference is so high.

In japan if 10 people think the story's bad, and only 1 person post so 10% of the users post that they think the story is bad, you get just 1 post saying the story is bad.
The rest of the west would be like 150 people thinking the story is bad. 10% of that is 15 whole people posting that and saying so.

There's a reason even the gaijin haiting ROBF guy wants to release REBF on steam. The userbase is not even in the same ballpark.

I generally disagree that US citizens tend to be the most entitled. US citizens are more than likely to support a creator on Patreon and be excessively kind and forgiving to the developers, while in Japan it's hyper transactional. They do not see it as supporting an artist, but as getting a service.

 

[IlliumEinsbun]

TheUnsaid Has really done a great job bringing up points most of us don't think about. I do feel really sorry for the developer (actually this is my favorite developer so I really really feel bad since he is one of the main reason's I started buying on Dlsite in the first place). I still stand by my words as mentioned previously I just want more village interactions, more stealth like in the first demo, and bigger maps rather than just fighting a cluster of bosses. I still think this is a good game, it just lacks some of the character refinery that Excessm is known for. A good example in Yumesame the "side characters" (even though they played significant roles) often did their own thing going around villages and helping or bewitching townsfolk rather than just tagging along with the MC. Hagokoro has the "side characters" do that to a degree but because of the lack of villages or towns we do not see their interactions as anything but generic fighting. This may be in bad taste but has anyone even used the character creator? This dev went the extra mile and made one better than even most of the MMO"s out there. This flat character design as one of you mention (although I agree with the butts) can be easily medigated through that character creator. Difficulty too I should know as an actual gaming masochist who plays harder game titles such as lvl 8 snk games, fire emblem snes games on lunatic (except Tharcia not a maniac), 7th saga (don't get me started), and Frogger ps2 titles which are deceptivaly difficult and made me smash my wall and almost my controller and system. Point being you can make enemies as hard as you want even to the point of power type not finishing the job (honestly just put blue type speed and doppler on any character and power type weapons won't do much anyways). Gonna also say that if Excessm implemented a map creator to make your own dungeon majority of people here would change there tone and call this game the masterpiece it really is,not without shortcomings but not the bland game it is made out to be.

 

[Triplebrc]

Well with the guy going back to japanese only and therefore getting rid of all this supposedly lifespan destroying stuff (even though he had no problems handling a Steam release in the past, which has FAR more users involved, likely with more added pressure from Steam if things are not working properly), I wonder what excuse he will give for his next game having trouble. The guy is full of it at this point, he already messed up royally with the promised Yume English version we never got until an unrelated circle felt generous enough to do it on their own much later, and now he wants to tell us that slapping a machine translation into the game and having more people submitting bug reports and feedback turns him from a happy fella into a really sad and burned out fella. I ain't buying the excuses, but I also do not really care for the reasons either, I am annoyed now because of the problems with the game, and I would be happy if the next game is way better, however he achieves that is up to him.
As for there being no English machine translation version for the next game, I think no one considers that a loss, and if he does not want to give support to English users having trouble after buying the game (from his post, clearly the extra money was not worth all the mental damage he had from having to do support for more people), well then smart English users will download the game for free somewhere so they at least can't be mad if there are issues or the game is not to their liking, sounds like win win.

 

[sigmazx]

I was looking forward to the game but got disappointed quickly after seeing the lack of contents compared to Parade Buster.

But I just didn't feel the need to write the dev or here anything negative. I'm super sad he won't support English (even if it was MTL, it was enough for me) or listen to the fans overseas.

Damn....

 

[TheUnsaid]

Gonna also say that if Excessm implemented a map creator to make your own dungeon majority of people here would change there tone and call this game the masterpiece it really is,not without shortcomings but not the bland game it is made out to be.

I'm thinking the inclusion of all these extra features like a character creator, custom event creator, and the like is what led to the main game having less content than his previous games.

he already messed up royally with the promised Yume English version we never got

Literally what would you do?
You pay a company, DLsite, to translate your game. They have a track record of translating other games before, so you say, "english version on the way." DLsite never delivers.

So literally. If you were in his shoes what would you do differently. Serious question.

that slapping a machine translation into the game and having more people submitting bug reports and feedback turns him from a happy fella into a really sad and burned out fella.

It's not completely a machine translation. The "machine translation" differentiates between gender, and has unique terminology like enlightenmenter which a "machine" would never come up with. It's definitely edited machine translation, which is a considerable amount of work.

And it's not bug reports that's getting to him. It's all the feedback about the lack of content, which he says he's aware of, but really couldn't do much about because of all the features he added for "westerner's" sake.

On this I agree with you. I do feel he added too much superfluous stuff like, event editing, and character creation, and all that. If the removal of such features led to a more polished game with more content I would remove them any day.

I think no one considers that a loss, and if he does not want to give support to English users having trouble after buying the game (from his post, clearly the extra money was not worth all the mental damage he had from having to do support for more people), well then smart English users will download the game for free somewhere so they at least can't be mad if there are issues or the game is not to their liking, sounds like win win.

I think you're being too standoffish. At the end of the day you want ExcessM to make more games, and to acknowledge you and at least attempt to release games that you can play and enjoy. This is something the western community and dev can meet each other halfway on. No need to burn bridges. If he stopped making games at some point in the future, that would really suck.