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What ever happened to the reorganization?


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YuriTenshi

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I remember talk a long while back about reworking the hentai games section - including giving rpg maker games their own sub-section, among other things. What ever happened to that?
 

Elarithon

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You could probably try posting this in the more appropriate section of the forum first. I dunno which one it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not this one (maybe forum development?).

Besides that, you do realize that the whole forum has had issues recently and that it's still being worked on (still no search function, for example)?
 
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YuriTenshi

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That's the thing... I'm not sure what the more appropriate place was - I used to be able to find it from one of the sticky threads here. Either way, pretty sure discussion had been happening for more than a year before the recent issue with the forums. If anything, those issues give a good excuse to do some reorganization for the site.
 

Froggus

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It's been a while but as far as I remember the conclusion was that things were fine the way they are.
 
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YuriTenshi

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Was it? That's a shame. I'd been looking forward to it. I mean, if anything deserves its own subcategory it's RPG Maker games - contrast that with Meet n Fuck, which hardly has anything threads for it. Whelp, if this is just something y'all figured would be fine, I guess I'll just roll with it. Really is a shame, though.
 

Cyriel

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Not sure it matters at this point but i'm all for categorizing. Maybe not specifically RPGmaker games but genres? sure. Makes the overview more clear what with a subforum that has 10k threads and next to no organization.

Though i applaud the index threads. Great work on those.
 

iDarkEden

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Not sure it matters at this point but i'm all for categorizing. Maybe not specifically RPGmaker games but genres? sure. Makes the overview more clear what with a subforum that has 10k threads and next to no organization.

Though i applaud the index threads. Great work on those.
Index threads? care to link?

and also, I really need the ignore thread feature back. Very hard to keep track of everything I don't want to see while trying to see which new games are out
 

Cyriel

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wasd123333

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Has anyone found out a way to ignore threads? Or at the very least mark threads as read already?
 

Ninja_Named_Bob

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Has anyone found out a way to ignore threads? Or at the very least mark threads as read already?
Why do you need that feature? Don't open threads that don't interest you. Not that difficult. If you're not interested in receiving updates about a thread, go to the top of the page and unsubscribe the thread. You shouldn't need a special function or to be told how to dress yourself because you're lazy/incompetent.

We didn't need "re-organization" so much as we needed the threads like "List of sprite-based sex games" and "patreon games" stickied to the first page so people could find what they were looking for. Also, asking about x type of game or opening a thread about net neutrality or how you think you could improve the forum without being asked is not just repetitious and asinine, but it's borderline spam and contributes nothing of value to the section you're posting in. For the future, I encourage all of you to consider the following before opening a thread:

1) Am I contributing something of value to the section I am posting in?
2) Is the thread a redundancy?
3) Is this thread pushing more relevant, active discussion to the wayside?
4) Is there anyone but me who could benefit from this thread?

If the answer to any of these is a big, fat "NO" (except No. 3, wherein a "yes" is a negative), then do not open the thread. Use these guidelines every time you plan to open a thread, and you'll soon notice a change in attitude in how people respond to you, that being from disdain and annoyance to neutrality and/or respect.
 
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wasd123333

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It's not being lazy, maybe you don't understand since everyone has a different way of using forums. I myself can read a little Japanese, but even for me it's difficult to read all the kanji and memorize every single title and thread in this section with over 1000+ games. I navigate to Ulmf, I see a bunch of threads in bold because of a reply someone posted (bolded title), so I try to remember whether it's a thread I care or not care about, but because I don't remember the title, or RJ number or whatever it was, I click on it to remember based on the preview picture, it's something I wanted to ignore. Try this for over 100 threads and it gets extremely annoying when you see the same game about 5-6 times before finally remembering the title.

I don't know what you're talking about regarding subscription, there's only a button at the top that allows you to subscribe to the thread. I am not auto-subscribed to every single thread here. In fact, I don't subscribe to any threads because I don't want my inbox full of notifications, but seeing as how this is the only way I guess I have to do it this way.

Again, as I mentioned if there is a better way you can suggest to mark threads or at least a hidden function that will mark a thread as read without opening it, then by all means please say so. The rest of your post is just plain rhetoric.

P.S-The other huge part about having this function is the benefit of differentiating between new threads and old ones. Because so many old threads are constantly bumped it's easy to miss out on new threads without ever discovering them, and then this means a potentially good game opportunity is lost. I personally found a really good game that a lot of people would enjoy in my opinion, but it's been shafted to 30+backpage where no one will probably check. Seeing this makes me frustrated using the forums as it wastes time and miss out on a lot of good games.
 
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DarkFire1004

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I haven't forgotten about this idea; I don't think it was necessarily concluded that the place was fine as it was. Rather, I think the discussion just died down.

If I remember, the debate was more or less between organizing by complete vs incomplete, or organizing by genre. The issues were that organizing by completion was vague and served to divide the community, while the details of organizing by genre were never fully hashed out or even agreed upon (What genres did people actually want to see, the workload involved and how to divide it, etc). And given the forum restructure, a lot of stuff like that just got pushed to the back of everybody's minds.

But while that's definitely a topic still worth debating, I'm necroing this thread simply because I think it's long past due that I bring up a related topic: I really think a lot of the sections should be combined/removed. It's plainly clear that the one place that gains the most amount of attention is the H-Games section. Whether that should be sub-divided further was the original debate, but that isn't what I want to talk about. I'm talking about the H-Movies, Vanilla H-Movies, Doujins, Under Construction, and Unsorted sections. It was a good idea back in 2009, but now that we've seen the direction of growth for this place, I think they need to be redone.

I also feel like many people use the H-Games section to serve as just a general discussion area, when I feel like the purpose of this section should be ONLY to talk about games. Obviously, there aren't rules against just having discussion; in fact, I'm actually pretty happy that people want to hold a conversation about the state of Patreon, or the merits of animation in an H-game alongside just talking about recent announcements for games. But a quality discussion can easily get swept away by the neverending tide of new announcements, releases, updates, and the like. Plus, the trend of recommendation threads got me thinking that perhaps there really is some merit to letting people just ask the community what kinds of games they should try out.

So my proposal is this:
  • Combine the H-Movies, Vanilla, and Doujin sections into an "Other H Media" section or something.
  • Under Construction becomes a sub-section in the H-Games section
  • Unsorted Hentai absorbs all of the threads in the general H section, all of the recommendation threads in the H-Games section, and becomes a Discussion section.
    • Recommendation threads are put in their own sub-section or even just a stickied thread.
However, I'm actually a little doubtful of my own proposal, simply because it'll just be a reorganization that will change nothing. That is, people will continue to not post about other h-media, and will not utilize a discussion section, as it's just easier to get attention from the massive H-Game section. And honestly, I think that's the main problem: the attention people give to that section is far greater, which really leads to nobody looking in the other sections. So I feel reorganizing will either break a principle dynamic, or do nothing at all. At the same time, I also feel that the place really doesn't make sense structure wise and perhaps really would change if it just made more sense. But I don't want to just lump everything under H-Games when it doesn't make sense to. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

Also, this by no means is an announcement of a change in structure. I don't know how to do that, nor would I want that responsibility. I'd just really like to hear other peoples' input on this, as it'll give me insight as to what people look for when they browse the H section.
 

super_slicer

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Well, as far as people not utilizing the proper sections for threads we could try enforcing the restrictions? (like maybe this discussion taking place in the forum development section eh? XD )

I'm all in favor of a complete restructure and cleanup of clutter, as you may remember I'd love to help with the effort! Though I think I'll wait a bit until I start actually discussing (shouting) the merits of the genre system again.
 

DarkFire1004

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(like maybe this discussion taking place in the forum development section eh? XD )
Holy crap, that threw me off bad. I was actually searching in that section to see if there were other threads like this, and got linked to here. I just assumed this thread was already in that section.
 

super_slicer

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No worries dark, it actually makes sense to have SOME presence in the H-games section to direct people to the discussion if we do move into forum development anyway.
 

AngleBoi7

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Holy crap, that threw me off bad. I was actually searching in that section to see if there were other threads like this, and got linked to here. I just assumed this thread was already in that section.
to be honest, not many posters bother with reading "News and Announcements" and "forum Development"

So my proposal is this:
  • Combine the H-Movies, Vanilla, and Doujin sections into an "Other H Media" section or something.
  • Under Construction becomes a sub-section in the H-Games section
  • Unsorted Hentai absorbs all of the threads in the general H section, all of the recommendation threads in the H-Games section, and becomes a Discussion section.
  • Recommendation threads are put in their own sub-section or even just a stickied thread.
Maybe do some changes to the Under Construction rules, there was a long discussion about Patreon stuff in the H-Games section.
Recommendations should probably be their own sub-section, otherwise, H0Games will end up with way too many stickied thread.

Side note: a while ago, someone made a general game saves thread, at the time it was seen as unneeded because it was possible to track attachments, but that part isn't true anymore.
 

wasd123333

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Wow this came back in January and I got to see my old post. It's kind of sad to see the Ignore Threads feature not coming back. This would solve a lot of problems with organization. If you simply don't like a game, ignore it and you'll never see it again. It lets people sort what kind of H-game/movie/unsorted they want by themselves, so that we don't have to differentiate for them. Technically, ULMF is prominent for just its Hgames from dlsite, patreon, etc. but from what you mentioned about sorting types of games, this was featured in the past I believe and never fully utilized to its proper extent. Nevertheless, I do suggest that you should let the staff or managers here know that Ignore Threads is something that can serve to combat disorganized sections. Although it may look unsorted initially, it just gives everyone what they want and let's them go where they want. I can't believe this hasn't been implemented and it's already August (my last post in January). If you guys want an example, look at F95. They organize their section very well with sub-titles (which we don't really need), but you can skim through all that with your own Ignore Threads feature. Thus, you don't see any complaints regarding their forum organization.

Also, the hentai section itself is such a huge genre, and the main problem is that everyone has their own tastes/preferences. If you try to divide it into sections like above, you're only going to steer and divide the community to concentrated sections with a huge responsibility for admins/mods to mark and send Thread types of games to certain sections. In other words, you guys would have to constantly and manually correct people into sending genres/types into certain sections. This is only going to bring more stress and work for you guys. So that's why I suggested you should let the people organize it themselves. Let them do it rather than you guys doing it for them. And that's through Ignore Threads.
 

Bryanis

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Well, some reorganization may be useful to avoid some interesting thread to be lost in the mass or ending with tons of stickied threads.

However I can't help thinking that most section aren't used because people just may have the hentai game section as their bookmark, and as such only see that section and it's subsection - hence the deserted hentai finder thread or all the game in development advertised in the hentai game section and not in the under construction.

Maybe a bit more enforcement of the rule in place might have lead peoples to use the correct section and avoid having so much section dead.
Not that we should do it now, but something to keep in mind for after a change - if there is one.

Having a section dedicated to recommendation / search instead of putting it in a general talk about hentai seem a good idea but I fear that if they are separated, the recommendation / search one might just die.

And as Angleboi7 said, some thread may be worth a sticky more now than before the forum change - but finding them now may be difficult.

All in all, I'm rather for a reorganization to make thing easier to find and navigate. Although it will probably need some active presence of mod at first (to remind of the new rule / place of thread to avoid the misplaced thread to end full of negative thumb ...).

PS : as a side note, It's probably a good occasion to add more tag to the existing list to make it easier to know what kind of game of thread is it.
 

Fenril

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Well, I think we should first start with a few questions that should be answered:

- Should you add another subforum alongside MnF, Translations, and Online Games for discussions?
=> And broaden the section to include more subjects, making it "H-Game Discussions, Tech Help, & Compilations"?
=> Compilations would include about half the sticky threads
=> Adding tech help could help for various topics such as using CheatEngine or posting CheatEngine Tables, applying translations, and using text hookers (that last one being something I still haven't figured out to this very day). Possibly also for posting save files for various games since those posts tend to be common questions in each individual thread
=> Active community members could post compilation threads for sharing their own saves and go for shameless forum trophy hoarding?

-How active are the other sections? (Ex. How many new threads of posts happen per day? The H-game section gets about 2-3 new pages of posts per day.)
=> I personally feel that other sections have their own identity and would suffer more if they lost their identity. At the very least, movies/animations should remain the same. Maybe "mangas" and "cg sets" should be their own section, possibly including still images?

-Should we refine the rules here?
=> Constant link begging tends to get on peoples' nerves to the point where negrepping happens the moment someone asks for a link or save file. Yet, there is no sticky specifically calling out these posts in order to prevent people from asking in the first place.
 

Ninja_Named_Bob

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=> Active community members could post compilation threads for sharing their own saves and go for shameless forum trophy hoarding
We already have non-contributing, thin-skinned, rapid-fire negreppers. Trophy-hoarding save-sharers would be an improvement to the h-games section.

-How active are the other sections? (Ex. How many new threads of posts happen per day? The H-game section gets about 2-3 new pages of posts per day.)
This is also my question. If nothing else, adding extra subforums for things that have a limited demand can be a bit repetitive. I would say, if nothing else, grab all the general use threads ("list of sprite-based", "list of patreon", etc threads) and put them into a single subforum called the "general request forum."

=> I personally feel that other sections have their own identity and would suffer more if they lost their identity. At the very least, movies/animations should remain the same. Maybe "mangas" and "cg sets" should be their own section, possibly including still images?
If you're proposing making a "general request thread" for all the porn sections, then that's not even a bad idea. It becomes more work for the mods to maintain them accurately and consistently, but that's in the job description, anyways. If nothing else, I could see the main forum staff adding a few more janitors to handle the workload of those sections exclusively.

And then darkfire sitting in a bar, ranting about how those "damn newbies" are taking food off his plate.

-Should we refine the rules here?
=> Constant link begging tends to get on peoples' nerves to the point where negrepping happens the moment someone asks for a link or save file. Yet, there is no sticky specifically calling out these posts in order to prevent people from asking in the first place.
First, a rule change. link-begging, request threads, etc that can be answered in the "general request forum" results in a warning strike. Second offenses have posting privileges taken away for a month. Third offenses lose posting privileges for three months. Fourth offenses go to trial, and their peers can determine if they get a reduced sentence or get the ye ol' kick indefinitely with no chance for parole. Reduced sentences are determined by section staff. I'm just spitballing ideas at this point, so any improvements are welcome.
 
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