RPG Patreon Active RPG Maker Alansya Chronicles - Fleeting Iris [v0.83 Final]

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

While I do not fully agree with...the "PR" of this game, I do not exactly see a problem with protecting one's "assets". You can be sued for illegally downloading music or movies or games and this is essentially the same thing.

There is a stark contrast between protecting one's intellectual property and threatening to take extreme/inappropriate action to prevent the property from being illegally shared/inappropriately used. An example of the proper course of action:

DuelingNetwork and YGOPro used card images from the Yu-Gi-Oh card game without permission. Nihon Ad Systems (whom have ownership over the rights of the card art) issued a C&D through their legal department, demanding the owner of DN remove the art. When DN attempted to get around it by allowing users to host their own servers on the site, NAS issued a shutdown order. As per requirement, DN complied. When the developer(s) of Pro were approached, they removed direct download links from their site.

If NAS had pursued this with demands and threatening to find out where the developers of both DN and Pro lived and getting their ISP to cut them off, there wouldn't be a reason to take them seriously and the C&D would have gone largely ignored without consequence. Threatening people with extreme action doesn't work, and the courts are less likely to rule in your favor. Now, imagine for a business like Patreon, who probably have over 2 million patrons and projects ongoing, what would happen if they permitted the people behind a project to bully and harass backers. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that it would die out pretty quick.

Heaven Studios is well within their right to protect their content to the full extent of the law, but they are not permitted to threaten, harass, and otherwise bully others into submission. You lose all credibility and rights to be protected when your first step to ensuring content isn't shared without permission or otherwise misused is to threaten the people who show an interest. And given this is a niche game for a niche audience, it's not the best way to proceed.

Wait, what? Do we have different versions or something? I can write up the text verbatim from the game I'm playing:

"I'm not going to give you a big lecture on how it's illegal to share this game without authorization." (This is true)

"We are NOT going to do that."
"Just remember that in order to create this game and future ones, the authors need to make a living."
"For that to happen, the patreons need to have their money's worth. We are working on patreon only exclusive physical goods like dakimakura's, figurines, t-shirts, etc."
"But still..."
"Don't be an asshole and share the game illegally the first couple of weeks."
"If you do, don't be surprised if you end up banned and reported to patreon."
"We will find you, and we will get your account terminated!"
"With that out of the way."

Blah blah blah mature audiences, over 18 check.

So what exactly about that is so threatening? That if you pirate/illegally share a game you'll get reported to patreon? Where the hell did you get the 'stalked, harassed' part from?

How about going back and reading the parts you posted? In fact, here it is, in quotes:

"If you do, don't be surprised if you end up banned and reported to patreon."

First-off, Heaven Studios does not work directly for, nor are they affiliated with, Patreon. Suggesting that patrons are going to get banned for sharing this content is arrogant presumption and suggestive that they are part of an exclusive group to which does not exist. Suggesting that action will be taken on their behalf is suggesting that they hold sway and authority, thus threatening others in an attempt to hold power power over what others do.

"We will find you, and we will get your account terminated!"

Even someone with the most basic understanding of the English language knows this is threatening harassment of others. From what I know, Patreon allows people to donate either through name or anonymously, but does not require that person to provide anything beyond an email address and payment method in order to do so. What's being stated here is "we're going to find out who you are and ensure your account is terminated!" The first requires a thing called "doxxing" and is highly illegal since it's covered as a form of stalking/harassment. Before you try to debate that point, I suggest looking at how harassment is viewed on the internet.

The second part indicates malicious intent a la pursuing action (possibly illegal) to have the person's account terminated. Disregarding my above point about a supposed "exclusive club" that doesn't exist, this is malicious in itself, essentially guaranteeing excessive punishment will be dealt to the offender.

Their entire spiel about "we don't make money any way outside this" and "you're an asshole if you don't support us" is a transparent attempt to guilt-trip people, and while it isn't necessarily illegal, is still extremely manipulative. That they follow it with "And we'll bully and harass you and demand punishment for the worst offense possible" actually hurts their case.

Anyways, if you fail to see why it can be considered bullying/harassment, then I can't help you as it's clear at that point you don't find anything inappropriate about telling people they'll be found and punished on your behalf while throwing a hissy-fit about how your only source of income is an adult game project and people who aren't giving you money are assholes.

I've said my piece, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[thswherizat]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

First-off, Heaven Studios does not work directly for, nor are they affiliated with, Patreon. Suggesting that patrons are going to get banned for sharing this content is arrogant presumption and suggestive that they are part of an exclusive group to which does not exist. Suggesting that action will be taken on their behalf is suggesting that they hold sway and authority, thus threatening others in an attempt to hold power power over what others do.

How is it an arrogant presumption, when the whole point of patreon is that these benefits are intended for people donating to support their development. There is literally nothing different from these guys or anyone else not wanting people to share their work. They even specify to not share it for the first few weeks, meaning that they want those supporting the project to have time to play it first. However, using the patreon platform affiliates you with patreon as a service, as it must. And I don't see how it would be in patreon's interest whatsoever to have people dissuading others from pledging by sharing the content for free immediately. Here's another conversation of patrons attempting to resolve issues of people getting content for free.

You must be registered to see the links

Are they also part of you 'exclusive group'? You sound like a conspiracy theorist or illuminati supporter.

Even someone with the most basic understanding of the English language knows this is threatening harassment of others. From what I know, Patreon allows people to donate either through name or anonymously, but does not require that person to provide anything beyond an email address and payment method in order to do so. What's being stated here is "we're going to find out who you are and ensure your account is terminated!" The first requires a thing called "doxxing" and is highly illegal since it's covered as a form of stalking/harassment. Before you try to debate that point, I suggest looking at how harassment is viewed on the internet.

If you ever read this thread before, you would know that H-studios has a method to help them in finding which patreons, so the people registered and supporting their page, are the ones sharing the content, which makes it easier for them to remove those patrons. If you were subscribing to a patreon which specifically asks you not to share those rewards and then doing so, would you really be surprised if you get banned from supporting them? Once again, they don't need to dox or do anything illegal to find out who is sharing the content, because they have an extreme short list already created by their supporters. I don't have to contest the point you're trying to make because it's completely off base.

The second part indicates malicious intent a la pursuing action (possibly illegal) to have the person's account terminated. Disregarding my above point about a supposed "exclusive club" that doesn't exist, this is malicious in itself, essentially guaranteeing excessive punishment will be dealt to the offender.

This is all you making conjecture and completely blowing pretty routine and simple warnings far out of proportion. They never say anything about 'illegal action' (But dear god get your tin-foil cap), they don't talk about some club, and they STILL haven't pretended to have any 'in' with patreon, just that they can report you. Where does it say anything about excessive punishment? If you're breaking their rules and get banned, that sounds like pretty expected punishment.

Their entire spiel about "we don't make money any way outside this" and "you're an asshole if you don't support us" is a transparent attempt to guilt-trip people, and while it isn't necessarily illegal, is still extremely manipulative. That they follow it with "And we'll bully and harass you and demand punishment for the worst offense possible" actually hurts their case.

They never said this. What they said was that to continue this project it has to be worthwhile for those creating it. Is that a confusing concept? If you need to have a separate job, the pace of making a game will slow down. If you need two jobs, it will practically cease. The more money they're allowed to gain from this project, the more they can, in theory, work on it. Where did the part about people who don't support them being assholes come from? They said you're an asshole if you go against their specific request to not share their product intended for patrons only.

They also never said anything about bullying and harassing. I don't think you're even reading the text at this point.

Anyways, if you fail to see why it can be considered bullying/harassment, then I can't help you as it's clear at that point you don't find anything inappropriate about telling people they'll be found and punished on your behalf while throwing a hissy-fit about how your only source of income is an adult game project and people who aren't giving you money are assholes.

I've said my piece, and I'll leave it at that.

Honestly, it's pretty clear you came into reading this with a hostile attitude, and instead of reading the actual text (which is very standard on patreon projects), you decided to read exactly what you wanted to even though it didn't exist in the message. Your comments about them pursuing illegal activity, doxxing, harassment, bullying, finding out real-world information is completely baseless and paranoid of you.

 

[fedefyr2]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

....So am I just...not gonna get an answer to my question? Or is this thread just now dedicated to arguing phrashings and the patreon model?

 

[JouteiKaji]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

....So am I just...not gonna get an answer to my question? Or is this thread just now dedicated to arguing phrashings and the patreon model?

I think the reason you're not being answered is cause they can't give an accurate estimate.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

I'm borderline on whether or not I'm going to delete the mass posts of shitloads of text that say nothing at all, because of the somehow well-said but entirely ignorant posts of someone who clearly had nothing but criticism to start, but at this point, I will post here what I told you in the private messaging system, and this argument is over.

I think you honestly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Coming back to the thread: fededyr2, I think he was pretty clear what their stance was on giving as sort of dated estimate, and it's hard to blame them for that, considering how fluid game creation can be. Any game "can be" done in any amount of time, it doesn't mean it should be done in that amount of time. However, if I might try to rephrase the question towards percentage, maybe you won't get such a douchey answer this time from the creator.

I think this type of breakdown could be a bit more easily given and well received, as it does nothing to put them on some chopping block for dates, and the audience still gets some sort of reassurance of growth and something to look forward to. And just because it might be, lets say 50% done, it doesn't necessarily mean that the second half of production would take the exact amount of time the first half did, so even if it seems a quantitative answer, it still leaves any kind of "expected timeline" at random.

 

[hrpgheaven]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

Hey! The reason I asked a little while back was because i have supported games before and this game seems so promising. And i get game developing takes time, so its not like I dont get where youre coming from. Though the "If you dont like it, you can fuck off" approach doesnt really entice me. Though now that youre in the thread again, i hope you wont be offended if i repeat my question: How far into developement are you? Just a rough estimate. Excited for this game to be finished!

Mechanic wise, 90%?

Story wise... 30%?

If you're asking for a date, ToxicShock already worded it perfectly, we can't give an estimate, there can be bugs, some scenes (days) can take three or four times longer to write as a day that barely has any action, etc. etc

Plus there's the free DLC's for content that not everyone might want to play but those are considered post-game ending.

So, I was gonna try out your demo, when you opened it with an introduction that would make a Twilight fan cringe. First and foremost, your protagonist comes off as vapid, dense, and utterly shallow. Her compressed explanation of who she is and why we should care about her is pretty bad, and given that it took 3 of you to produce a working demo, I have to wonder exactly how much effort was given to the story. By the first two minutes, your protagonist has made he dislike them. Not off to a good start.

Oh, but that's fine, since unlikeable protagonists aren't an oddity. As long as the game itself is fun, that's par for the course. Hell, an unlikable protagonist can be the first step for a good story. But then you went one step further.

You threatened your audience.

Anyone who has played the public demo and whatever content is already available through your patreon knows what I'm talking about. Essentially, you declare anyone sharing it will be stalked, harassed, and have their account terminated. Did you think that was appropriate? Did you believe that was an acceptable gesture to make? I can tell you right now, anyone not dissuaded from supporting your game is most likely going to disregard your little threat and share it just to spite you.

Oh, and I'll be contacting patreon. I'm sure they would like to know that one of the projects under their crowdfunding system is essentially trying to bully people. I'll also be contacting this forum's admins and submitting screenshots that you've resorted to bullying. I'm sure neither patreon nor ulmf want to be associated with that kind of behavior. Some advice for your future endeavors: Don't assume that you can bully others because you're worried about something they might do.

"Threatened" as in, we reminded people that there are laws that should be abided for and if people don't respect them we'll make a complain towards Patreon? How is that not in our absolute right to do again..?

Just so you know we and a few other western game developers have a system that easily figures out who shared games away in public places and Patreon terminated 3 accounts so far, all those people shared the game the day it came out, but we are the bad guys...

Also, the "we will find you" part was a mock at Taken (The Movie).

Your other posts were sugar picking and retorting things to suit your visions, and I will not take part at refuting them, it is well within our right to report illegal sharings to Patreon, and it's against their TOS to do so, 1+1.

 

[thunderbass]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

crashed after finished working at bar on 3rd day

anyidea how to fix this ?

 

[hrpgheaven]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

You can skip it with a save game but it's just gonna crash later on anyway, next patch will fix it.

 

[bleahblah]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

Just finished the demo. I love it. Wish there was more heh.

 

[thswherizat]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

There's a "Finally" post on patreon... Any idea what news that is?

 

[TheMagister]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

The update before it talks about a release date so maybe it's a Patreon release. If you really want to know, pay for it. There's a reason the newsfeed is P2R...

 

[hugo77]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

There's a "Finally" post on patreon... Any idea what news that is?

Its another delay. Third month without update...

 

[hrpgheaven]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

Its another delay. Third month without update...

Yeaaaaaah... Absolutely not true. It was month and a half and we did announce our vacations.

 

[day_thi90]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

the demo link is deaded, can i have one ??, this one look great

 

[12435]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

yeah link to demo is dead.

 

[rakgi1]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

When you guys went on vacation, did you switch to per content update or charged monthly like usual?

 

[Nytemare]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

I thought people went on vacation to get away from work? If there's no work being done, what is there to vacation from?

Forgive me for being a smart ass. But it's been ages since we've seen anything from this project and over a year since it was started. Nothing produced so far looks to be high enough quality to justify even a fraction of that time.

 

[TheMagister]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

I thought people went on vacation to get away from work? If there's no work being done, what is there to vacation from?

Forgive me for being a smart ass. But it's been ages since we've seen anything from this project and over a year since it was started. Nothing produced so far looks to be high enough quality to justify even a fraction of that time.

Are you a Patreon? Because I'm pretty sure they've released updates to Patreon backers. They said they were only going to do one demo for free (iirc) so I don't think you can just claim they've done nothing.

 

[Nytemare]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

I just checked their patreon. I did not realize they released a patch on Sept 21st. It had been quite a while since seeing any updates as far as actual content.

And no, I'm not supporting them. There's no way I would pay monthly for something like this. I'd be willing to pay for a final version at a set price though, but that could be years away.

 

[Angmir]

Re: Ayame's Adventure - Public Demo Release

I like the game overall.

Although I must say it is developing quite slowly.

But the Last builds Bar sex scene (for virgin Ayame) is a total joke...

It is total BS if you consider shes a virgin, and even if she isnt it is totaly shody work. It is like it was writen in 15 minutes.

Seriously ? Something as important as first time sex (overall or with someone else than fionce), is put in a few lines worth a scene ? Without any buildup to it, or reasoning, or internal thoughts ?

He just unzipped his pant -> put in -> moved inside 3 times - > put out.

Seriously I wrote better erotic scenes when I was 7 - when I thought pussy was a second mouth with teeth and all.